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 Post subject: Re: Bolt!
PostPosted: Sat Jan 16, 2016 12:15 pm 
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Joined: Wed Oct 30, 2013 7:27 am
Posts: 589
Location: Manteca, California
CSW wrote:
Welp, the Bolt is everything more your would want in a Spark, more range and slightly bigger..... but costs 2x as much. So I will keep my Spark and be happy cuz I like it anyways. But yea, Bolt is really nice.
After watching the Bolt EV introduction by Mary Barr, I thought WOW! But, as I have started coming to my realistic senses, A Bolt EV really does not add much to what I already have outside of what you mentioned and some really neat electronics for which I have no use. But, what if Chevy, down the line, offered a 30kWh replacement battery for the Spark EV? Now, that would be something to bark about.


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 Post subject: Re: Bolt!
PostPosted: Sat Jan 16, 2016 12:44 pm 
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Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2015 8:37 am
Posts: 119
Location: Sacramento,CA
OOOoooo, a 30kw batt would be very nice!


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 Post subject: Re: Bolt!
PostPosted: Sat Jan 16, 2016 3:36 pm 
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Joined: Sun Nov 03, 2013 12:35 am
Posts: 479
Location: SF Bay Area, CA
NORTON wrote:
Hang a $75 card reader on the stations, sell a Tesla to CCS adapter cord and you now have Money Coming in from the Superchargers, instead of the current business model.

Sell it at $0.25/kWh, or more.... Elon????

Only $75? Remember. People w/60 kWh Model S had to pay $2K to $2.5K for Supercharger access. How do you think they'd feel? How do you think the Supercharger access capable people would feel about a bunch of other non-Tesla EVs coming to use Superchargers that are already quite busy.

$0.25/kWh, or more? At $0.25/kWh, that's a bargain compared to NRG evgo's pricing (https://www.nrgevgo.com/ev-drivers/free ... ion-plans/) of $4.95/session + 20 cents/minute or Blink's pricing of $0.59/kWh for members in my state.


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 Post subject: Re: Bolt!
PostPosted: Sat Jan 16, 2016 4:37 pm 
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Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2015 8:37 am
Posts: 119
Location: Sacramento,CA
cwerdna wrote:
NORTON wrote:
Hang a $75 card reader on the stations, sell a Tesla to CCS adapter cord and you now have Money Coming in from the Superchargers, instead of the current business model.

Sell it at $0.25/kWh, or more.... Elon????

Only $75? Remember. People w/60 kWh Model S had to pay $2K to $2.5K for Supercharger access. How do you think they'd feel? How do you think the Supercharger access capable people would feel about a bunch of other non-Tesla EVs coming to use Superchargers that are already quite busy.

$0.25/kWh, or more? At $0.25/kWh, that's a bargain compared to NRG evgo's pricing (https://www.nrgevgo.com/ev-drivers/free ... ion-plans/) of $4.95/session + 20 cents/minute or Blink's pricing of $0.59/kWh for members in my state.


OR even just a Chademo to CCS adapter would be grrrreat! Would double or triple the number of DC rapids chargers we could use. I know, it has been discussed, it is cost-prohibitive, but it is a nice dream.


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 Post subject: Re: Bolt!
PostPosted: Sat Jan 16, 2016 5:09 pm 
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Joined: Sun Nov 03, 2013 12:35 am
Posts: 479
Location: SF Bay Area, CA
CSW wrote:
OR even just a Chademo to CCS adapter would be grrrreat! Would double or triple the number of DC rapids chargers we could use. I know, it has been discussed, it is cost-prohibitive, but it is a nice dream.

This goes back to the whole point I and others had made over and over before. There seemed to be no good reason for the extra 2 standards (SAE Combo aka Combo1 and Combo2) that arose from the CCS "crowd", esp. given that most of the crowd isn't even serious about supporting it (e.g. no vehicles w/the inlet, little to no funding of infrastructure, shipping in EVs limited states or just CA compliance cars, etc.)

It seems like it was just an attempt to slow down Nissan, as I posted numerous times, such as at http://mychevysparkev.com/forum/viewtop ... 5540#p5540.

If those folks adopted CHAdeMO or cut a deal w/Tesla, there'd be access to a LOT more DC FC infrastructure and there wouldn't be this (by definition) extra cost of installing dual-head DC FCs vs. single-headed ones.


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 Post subject: Re: Bolt!
PostPosted: Sat Jan 16, 2016 7:16 pm 
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Joined: Fri May 01, 2015 5:52 am
Posts: 928
Location: KC,MO
cwerdna wrote:
NORTON wrote:
Hang a $75 card reader on the stations, sell a Tesla to CCS adapter cord and you now have Money Coming in from the Superchargers, instead of the current business model.

Sell it at $0.25/kWh, or more.... Elon????

>Only $75? Remember. People w/60 kWh Model S had to pay $2K to $2.5K for Supercharger access. How do you think they'd feel? How do you think the Supercharger access capable people would feel about a bunch of other non-Tesla EVs coming to use Superchargers that are already quite busy.

>>$0.25/kWh, or more? At $0.25/kWh, that's a bargain compared to NRG evgo's pricing (https://www.nrgevgo.com/ev-drivers/free ... ion-plans/) of $4.95/session + 20 cents/minute or Blink's pricing of $0.59/kWh for members in my state.

>I'm joking about the price to install a card reader to a Supercharger, but they are already internet connected. A card reader and a SW load and sell some adapter cords. Could be a cheap way to allow Tesla to start making some money off the Supercharger Network.
Don't know what to do about the few busy Superchargers. Maybe more threats from Elon? That didn't go well last time.
After all, who doesn't love Free Power?

Or, stay the course and Never Make a Dime off this network of chargers and just keep it as a financial drain to Tesla, for Evva and Evva.... (How can this possibly be a business plan?)

>> Sorry, about the $0.25kWh guess. I don't have a clue about 'Pay to Play DCFC'.
I can state that I've used 2,328 kWh in my ~8 months/ 9k miles of ownership on Free Public Charging, some of that on DCFC on weekends. This is the equivalent of ~$330 if I charged at home. I have started plugging in at home due to the Battery's TMS needs in this cold weather.

_________________
Used '14 2LT w/ DCFC.
In the middle of the country.
Far from any of its sibs.


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 Post subject: Re: Bolt!
PostPosted: Sat Jan 16, 2016 9:28 pm 
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Joined: Wed Oct 30, 2013 7:27 am
Posts: 589
Location: Manteca, California
Even if we could use the Supercharger network to charge a Spark EV, the distance between many Supercharger stations would probably prohibit its use for distance traveling. The Bolt EV, with its longer range, probably could use the network if it was available and a proper adapter existed.


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 Post subject: Re: Bolt!
PostPosted: Sun Jan 17, 2016 2:13 pm 
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Joined: Sat Feb 01, 2014 4:47 pm
Posts: 576
cwerdna wrote:
NORTON wrote:
Hang a $75 card reader on the stations, sell a Tesla to CCS adapter cord and you now have Money Coming in from the Superchargers, instead of the current business model.

Sell it at $0.25/kWh, or more.... Elon????

Only $75? Remember. People w/60 kWh Model S had to pay $2K to $2.5K for Supercharger access. How do you think they'd feel? How do you think the Supercharger access capable people would feel about a bunch of other non-Tesla EVs coming to use Superchargers that are already quite busy.

$0.25/kWh, or more? At $0.25/kWh, that's a bargain compared to NRG evgo's pricing (https://www.nrgevgo.com/ev-drivers/free ... ion-plans/) of $4.95/session + 20 cents/minute or Blink's pricing of $0.59/kWh for members in my state.


Early adoption has its price. The people who choose to be know the costs.


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 Post subject: Re: Bolt!
PostPosted: Sun Jan 17, 2016 2:16 pm 
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Joined: Sat Feb 01, 2014 4:47 pm
Posts: 576
cwerdna wrote:
CSW wrote:
OR even just a Chademo to CCS adapter would be grrrreat! Would double or triple the number of DC rapids chargers we could use. I know, it has been discussed, it is cost-prohibitive, but it is a nice dream.

This goes back to the whole point I and others had made over and over before. There seemed to be no good reason for the extra 2 standards (SAE Combo aka Combo1 and Combo2) that arose from the CCS "crowd", esp. given that most of the crowd isn't even serious about supporting it (e.g. no vehicles w/the inlet, little to no funding of infrastructure, shipping in EVs limited states or just CA compliance cars, etc.)

It seems like it was just an attempt to slow down Nissan, as I posted numerous times, such as at http://mychevysparkev.com/forum/viewtop ... 5540#p5540.

If those folks adopted CHAdeMO or cut a deal w/Tesla, there'd be access to a LOT more DC FC infrastructure and there wouldn't be this (by definition) extra cost of installing dual-head DC FCs vs. single-headed ones.


I doubt very much a charging standard would slow down any of the EV manufacturers. There's no proof of that other than hearsay. New technology always diverges in ways that are not always convenient for the end consumer but in the end more options equal lower costs and a better finished product...regardless of which comes out on top.


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 Post subject: Re: Bolt!
PostPosted: Sun Jan 17, 2016 4:34 pm 
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Joined: Sun Nov 03, 2013 12:35 am
Posts: 479
Location: SF Bay Area, CA
nozferatu wrote:
I doubt very much a charging standard would slow down any of the EV manufacturers. There's no proof of that other than hearsay.

Sure it does. I was at CES just a few weeks ago and happened to be at the Chargepoint booth where someone who knew little about EVs was talking to the reps while standing in front of the dual headed unit at http://www.chargepoint.com/express/cpe200/. He was "upset" or "angry" that "they" couldn't figure things out and there are multiple standards. I told him that there are 3 DC FC standards in the US, not just the 2 there and at least 6 different DC FC plugs in total, worldwide.

Go back to the days of DVD and DIVX. I remember when Circuit City was heavily pushing DIVX crap at their stores, since they were one of the primary involved parties. I overheard a sales droid at Socket Circus telling someone looking at DVD players to go w/one that had DIVX because "that's what hot". I remember hearing constant announcements at those stores telling people get a demo of DIVX, blah blah. That created confusion.

You had 2 formats using the same looking disc media and one of them had this goofy model rental model w/DRM along w/"silver" and "gold". See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DIVX. Once DIVX finally bit the dust, DVDs took off.

Before DIVX died, many DVD proponents were quite angry about DIVX and Circuit City in terms of stunting DVD's growth by creating consumer confusion. I boycotted Circuit City whenever I could and chose not to buy something from them if a competitor had it at the the same price.

It seems quite likely that many people who kinda considered EVs just didn't bother because they were "confused" and wanted to wait for things to be "sorted out". Who does that hurt? It hurts companies who are serious about EVs (e.g. Nissan).

GM couldn't care less as they weren't serious about EVs nor DC FCing any vehicles (see Spark EV sales numbers, the complete lack of DC FC support on any other GM vehicles and the almost 0 support towards DC FC infrastructure). I guess we'll see how serious GM is/isn't once the Bolt ships...


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