Spark EV selling in more states?

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SteveC5088

Well-known member
Joined
May 5, 2014
Messages
155
Location
Fresno, CA
This posted on the gm-volt.com Spark EV forum:
from ClarksonCote, location Central NY: Spark EV Nationwide this Summer!!
Looks like my suspicions were correct. I'm at the dealership getting an oil change for the Volt, and the salesperson that sold me the Volt stopped to chat with me. He asked if I had heard about the Spark EV, and said they are supposed to be getting a couple within the next couple months (I'm in the east coast). Said they are in the process of producing them all. I said, "Oh the 2015's?" And he said "No, this summer." Of course we were both saying the same thing as I knew the 2015 model year is just starting for the Spark EV

I hope he's right. He certainly has no reason to lie and was very confident of it. I suspected that the A123 battery may have been the limiting factor, and with the new GM assembled battery being in it on the 2015 model, nationwide appears to be the plan!!
Followup posts wonder whether it will be in states with rebates and maybe states that have adopted the CARB rules.
 
Companies like GM and Toyota are fighting the rule that will require them to sell in the following states:

CARB-ZEV "coalition" states - California, Connecticut, Maryland, Massachusetts, New York, Oregon, Rhode Island and Vermont

...starting in the 2018 model year. Currently, only hydrogen cars are exempt.

************

Auto manufacturer's Oct 19, 2012 request to EPA for waiver from CARB:

http://www.globalautomakers.org/sites/default/files/document/attachments/JointCommentsCAWaiverRequest10-19-12.pdf

"It is highly unlikely that the required infrastructure and the level of consumer demand for ZEVs will be sufficient by MY2018 in either California or in the individual Section 177 States to support the ZEV sales requirements mandated by CARB. EPA should therefore deny, at the present time, California’s waiver request for the ZEV program for these model years. During the interim, Global Automakers and the Alliance believe that California and EPA, with full auto industry participation, should implement a review for the ZEV program similar to the mid-term review process adopted under the federal GHG and CAFE regulations for MYs2017 through 2025."

That's a whole lot of gobbledy goop to say, "keep the traveling provision so we can only sell cars in California at the minimum number, and not sell any in the other CARB states."

CARB state coalition - California, New York, Massachusetts, Oregon, Vermont, Maryland, Connecticut and Rhode Island.

The eight states combined account for 23 percent of U.S. vehicle sales, according to California’s Air Resources.
 
TonyWilliams said:
Companies like GM and Toyota are fighting the rule that will require them to sell in the following states:

CARB-ZEV "coalition" states - California, Connecticut, Maryland, Massachusetts, New York, Oregon, Rhode Island and Vermont

...starting in the 2018 model year. Currently, only hydrogen cars are exempt.

************

Auto manufacturer's Oct 19, 2012 request to EPA for waiver from CARB:

http://www.globalautomakers.org/sites/default/files/document/attachments/JointCommentsCAWaiverRequest10-19-12.pdf

"It is highly unlikely that the required infrastructure and the level of consumer demand for ZEVs will be sufficient by MY2018 in either California or in the individual Section 177 States to support the ZEV sales requirements mandated by CARB. EPA should therefore deny, at the present time, California’s waiver request for the ZEV program for these model years. During the interim, Global Automakers and the Alliance believe that California and EPA, with full auto industry participation, should implement a review for the ZEV program similar to the mid-term review process adopted under the federal GHG and CAFE regulations for MYs2017 through 2025."

That's a whole lot of gobbledy goop to say, "keep the traveling provision so we can only sell cars in California at the minimum number, and not sell any in the other CARB states."

CARB state coalition - California, New York, Massachusetts, Oregon, Vermont, Maryland, Connecticut and Rhode Island.

The eight states combined account for 23 percent of U.S. vehicle sales, according to California’s Air Resources.

So did the EPA approve this request and the date pushed back? This seems a bit outrageous, going back to the chicken & egg problem. They dont want to sell EVs because they claim there isn't a large enough infrastructure, but there's no infrastructure because EVs are not widespread.
 
MysteriousJ said:
So did the EPA approve this request and the date pushed back? This seems a bit outrageous, going back to the chicken & egg problem. They dont want to sell EVs because they claim there isn't a large enough infrastructure, but there's no infrastructure because EVs are not widespread.

The six "Large Vehicle Manufacturers", including GM, have been required since 2012 model year to comply with California Air Resources Board - Zero Emission Vehicle regulations, each using the following car for compliance:


1) Ford - Focus EV (going to hydrogen for model year 2015 compliance)
2) Honda - Fit EV (going to hydrogen for model year 2015 compliance)
3) Fiat/Chrysler - 500e
4) Toyota - Rav4 EV (going to hydrogen for model year 2015 compliance)
5) GM Chevrolet - Spark EV
6) Nissan - LEAF


Needless to say, GM was so late to the game that they had to buy a whole bunch of CARB credits from Toyota and other manufacturers like Tesla to meet their requirement. With 3 of the 6 going to hydrogen, the "traveling provision" issue goes away since hydrogen is already exempt. Nissan, of course, started selling their LEAF electric vehicle in Dec 2010, and long ago met the minimum requirements, now with over 50,000 sold in the USA, and almost 150,000 sold worldwide.

That leaves GM and Fiat to fight the EPA battle that I quoted, because the other big 6 manufacturers have wisely found the wiggle out plan.

To my knowledge, the EPA turned them down. But, they'll be back with another version of "nobody wants electric cars". Guaranteed.

What will GM and Fiat do? I don't know, but hydrogen is the easy out right now. I would put big bucks on a future GM hydrogen car just like their big competition.

For 2015 model year and beyond, CARB requires the following companies to comply:

BMW, Fiat/Chrysler, Ford, General Motors, Honda, Hyundai, Kia, Mazda, Daimler/Mercedes, Nissan, Toyota, and Volkswagen must comply with the new requirements. Four additional manufacturers would also be required to comply with the ZEV requirements, but would be allowed to meet their obligation with PHEVs.

How many of them go hydrogen is debatable, but Mercedes is a high likelihood. Hyundai is absolutely hydrogen.

Every hydrogen defector is one less company that doesn't have to worry about the traveling provision. Problem solved... by dropping battery electric cars.
 
Can we keep THIS TOPIC on mark this time ?

If you all want to chat about EPA, please go to another topic so we can talk On Topic here.
 
tigger19687 said:
Can we keep THIS TOPIC on mark this time ?

If you all want to chat about EPA, please go to another topic so we can talk On Topic here.

I'm not sure who is chatting about "EPA", but your drivel adds nothing to the conversation.
 
Although it's certainly a far cry from any official move by GM to offer the Spark EV in more states, this article from insideevs.com indicates that in a few special cases some are escaping:

"Chevy Spark EV Trickles Into Dealerships Outside Of California And Oregon"

http://insideevs.com/chevy-spark-ev-trickles-dealerships-outside-california-oregon/
 
But that was a USED Spark.
Not New ones.
That makes a huge difference.

I have seen Used sparks in New York.

Every Dealer I have emailed can not tell me when they are coming or if they are.

So sad.. I want one NOW !

And really, if they are going to let them loose in the Other ZEV states, they better do it now BEFORE the Cold / Snow comes
 
Neither GM, nor many other compliance battery electric car companies will likely offer in New York until absolutley required, which is model year 2018.

Should GM drop the Spark EV for a hydrogen compliance car (like Toyota, Honda and Hyundai), then they will be party to the new CARB-ZEV hydrogen exemption and continue selling only in California in 2018 and beyond.
 
TonyWilliams said:
Neither GM, nor many other compliance battery electric car companies will likely offer in New York until absolutley required, which is model year 2018.

Should GM drop the Spark EV for a hydrogen compliance car (like Toyota, Honda and Hyundai), then they will be party to the new CARB-ZEV hydrogen exemption and continue selling only in California in 2018 and beyond.

I don't think they will do that, not with Tesla on the horizon. Or who knows, maybe they really are that dumb.
 
Does ANYONE actually Know someone that they can fond out from the source (GM) when the EV will be sent out to other states ??

I have sent out emails a few months ago to about 4 dealers in my area.
I think I may resend them and tell them that who ever can tell me WHEN it will come to MA that I will BUY one form them the day they are allowed to order it .

I wonder if that would lite a fire under their butt to actually CALL someone to find out.

Really too bad that they are not letting it out now, with Snow starting anytime from Oct to Dec. It will NOT sell well in that time period.
Shoot, if they don't sell by Aug-Sept I will be waiting till Spring to get it. :(

I envy all you that already have it and are in a state that hardly gets snow :(
 
xylhim said:
TonyWilliams said:
Neither GM, nor many other compliance battery electric car companies will likely offer in New York until absolutley required, which is model year 2018.

Should GM drop the Spark EV for a hydrogen compliance car (like Toyota, Honda and Hyundai), then they will be party to the new CARB-ZEV hydrogen exemption and continue selling only in California in 2018 and beyond.

I don't think they will do that, not with Tesla on the horizon. Or who knows, maybe they really are that dumb.

They didn't start selling the Spark EV until summer 2013, and yet GM was required to comply with CARB-ZEV starting in model year 2012. Instead, they bought huge $$$$$ in credits from Toyota and others.

Yes, they are that dumb. Toyota waited to the last minute also, only releasing the Rav4 EV on Sept 24, 2012 as a 2012 model year car, then selling 2012 model year cars throughout 2013 when they needed 2013 model year compliance.

These huge manufacturers would really love CARB-ZEV to go away, and are working hard to lower / diminish / change the requirements. Toyota has done a fantastic job of changing the rules to favor hydrogen, and next year won't even offer a battery electric car.

Instead of making 2600 Rav4 EV's for the three model years 2012-2014, they can make less than 900 hydrogen cars for 2015-2017. Don't fool yourself into thinking GM isn't drooling over that prospect.

And here's the single biggest reason that GM may be lured to hydrogen... the hydrogen cars only have to be sold in California, not the other CARB-ZEV states of Connecticut, Maryland, Massachusetts, New York, Oregon, Rhode Island and Vermont. That rule just changed recently.

So, starting 2018 model year, GM currently must sell ZEV battery cars in the above states. But, if they go hydrogen in 2018, they can sell a whole lot less cars in only one state, just like their pals will do at Toyota, Honda, Hyundai and maybe others.

I have a very strong suspicion that the cost saving measures for the Spark EV (smaller battery that still meets criteria for 3 credits) will take them through 2017 model year.
 
tigger19687 said:
Does ANYONE actually Know someone that they can fond out from the source (GM) when the EV will be sent out to other states ??

Well, GM will send them out to California, Connecticut, Maryland, Massachusetts, New York, Oregon, Rhode Island and Vermont by model year 2018, or they will pay to buy the credits / penalties, or they will switch to hydrogen for model year 2018 and beyond and only sell in California.

But, your question is will you get the Spark EV before the regulatory mandate? I'd return the question, why? Because you want one? Heck, it may happen, but I seriously doubt it until 2018 model year.

If you really want one, buy one of the used ones on the market and ship it to your house.
 
I just received an email about 2015 model year Catalog ordering for Chevrolets and it was emphasized that Spark EV Catalogs could only be ordered for California and Oregon dealers, so I have a high degree of confidence that they will not sell 2015 Spark EVs outside of California and Oregon.
 
GeorgeChevy said:
I just received an email about 2015 model year Catalog ordering for Chevrolets and it was emphasized that Spark EV Catalogs could only be ordered for California and Oregon dealers, so I have a high degree of confidence that they will not sell 2015 Spark EVs outside of California and Oregon.


BTW what happened to you car man? Did anyone from Chevy contact you? Are you getting another one?
 
GeorgeChevy said:
I just received an email about 2015 model year Catalog ordering for Chevrolets and it was emphasized that Spark EV Catalogs could only be ordered for California and Oregon dealers, so I have a high degree of confidence that they will not sell 2015 Spark EVs outside of California and Oregon.

Oh well, it is what it is. Other manufactures are offering their EV's in other states and time to move on to those manufactures for purchase if you're interest in a BEV.
 
nozferatu said:
BTW what happened to you car man? Did anyone from Chevy contact you? Are you getting another one?

Car got totalled, parts total alone was $15k (without replacing the battery), with labor it was around $29k to repair.

I got another one, haven't been contacted by Chevrolet.
 
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