NickM
Posts: 24
Joined: Mon May 26, 2014 2:42 pm

goes into reverse if not in park.after shutting motor off

Thu Aug 21, 2014 9:28 am

Had a close call yesterday.Was on a very slight incline pointing up parking space.Shut motor off but gear was in1st drive.started to get out of the car when spark excellrated in reverse.Put brake on looked at gear which showed it was in forward.Let off brake still in reverse.
Put in park motor then shut down.
Tried to simulate the condition leaving it in drive 1 shut engine down.Would not do it a second time.Called chevy spark advisior let them know what happen.am waiting to have car checked out.will post when I learn more. :?:

Nashco
Posts: 537
Joined: Wed May 29, 2013 12:00 am
Location: Portland, OR

Re: goes into reverse if not in park.after shutting motor of

Thu Aug 21, 2014 11:10 am

How could you tell it was propelling the vehicle in reverse (with motor torque applied) instead of just rolling due to the incline? If you turned the car off, it's EXTREMELY unlikely that the car would apply motor power, as the contactors open when you turn the car off as a safety feature, isolating the battery pack from the rest of the car. It sounds like it might have just been rolling down the hill based on your short description.

To be clear, if you turn it off when the vehicle is not in park, the doors do not automatically unlock. It will let you unlock the doors with the button, but this should signal to you (along with the instrument cluster display and dings) that something isn't right before you just hop out!

If you don't turn the car off and leave it in gear, unlock the doors with the button, and get out...the car will actually stay for a few seconds after you've released the brake pedal, as though the parking brake was on. This is because the hill assist function keeps the brakes applied for a brief period of time (a few seconds, or until the driver pushes the accelerator pedal)...but once they release, the car will roll backwards if the hill is significant and the driver isn't pushing the accelerator pedal.

Bryce

StevesWeb
Posts: 147
Joined: Tue Jan 07, 2014 5:36 pm

Re: goes into reverse if not in park.after shutting motor of

Thu Aug 21, 2014 2:26 pm

When parking a vehicle of any kind it should not be left without securing it against moving. You should have put the vehicle in Park and/or set the parking brake before you exited the vehicle. If a vehicle is parked on a slope and not secured against rolling it will roll.

I see no flaw with the vehicle in this incident, only driver error.

NickM
Posts: 24
Joined: Mon May 26, 2014 2:42 pm

Re: goes into reverse if not in park.after shutting motor of

Thu Aug 21, 2014 8:06 pm

When before I have shut down motor not in park forward or reverse the wheels lock.Or does not move even on hill.This time when it happened after i took foot off brake it was like fast start not a slow roll.the gear selector was in forward yet the car was in reverse.
Yes I should have put in park.But when the gear selector shows forward it should go forward not reverse.

nmikmik
Posts: 142
Joined: Fri May 16, 2014 3:46 pm
Location: San Diego, CA

Re: goes into reverse if not in park.after shutting motor of

Thu Aug 21, 2014 9:05 pm

NickM wrote:When before I have shut down motor not in park forward or reverse the wheels lock.Or does not move even on hill.This time when it happened after i took foot off brake it was like fast start not a slow roll.the gear selector was in forward yet the car was in reverse.
Yes I should have put in park.But when the gear selector shows forward it should go forward not reverse.
I think that regardless of your car rolling backwards or "going" backwards under power, it should not be happening after the power button been depressed. It is a programming error in my opinion, nothing more. When the car is under a certain speed let's say of 2 mph and the power button turned off, the parking break should be applied as a default and be able to be released only if I push down on that P button.
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cwerdna
Posts: 479
Joined: Sun Nov 03, 2013 12:35 am
Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Re: goes into reverse if not in park.after shutting motor of

Thu Aug 21, 2014 11:23 pm

nmikmik wrote: I think that regardless of your car rolling backwards or "going" backwards under power, it should not be happening after the power button been depressed. It is a programming error in my opinion, nothing more. When the car is under a certain speed let's say of 2 mph and the power button turned off, the parking break should be applied as a default and be able to be released only if I push down on that P button.
How many cars do you know if that automatically apply the parking brake at power down?

(FWIW, my 06 Prius will put itself in Park (when stopped or at VERY low speeds) if you press power to shut down the car while in D. It does not and cannot engage the parking brake, which is via a foot pedal.

Leaf apparently does the same thing: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=8492, although I don't recall the results of me trying it myself. My Leaf also cannot automatically apply the parking brake either since it also became a foot pedal version w/the '13+ model year. '11 and '12 Leafs had an electronically activated one, not a foot pedal.)

BTW, a quick Google search for fmvss shutting off vehicle while in gear turned up
http://www.safetyresearch.net/blog/arti ... ance-probe. The "Ready to Roll" section seems most relevant. (I'm very familiar w/the 06 Prius' smart key system behavior and that of the "Intelligent Key" (in Nissan parlance) on my Leaf and my mom's 07 Altima Hybrid.)

nmikmik
Posts: 142
Joined: Fri May 16, 2014 3:46 pm
Location: San Diego, CA

Re: goes into reverse if not in park.after shutting motor of

Sat Aug 23, 2014 5:52 am

cwerdna wrote: How many cars do you know if that automatically apply the parking brake at power down?
I really don't know of any, but I also don't think there is any harm in programming the vehicle software that way. Thanks for the links btw, it depicts the wide range of the lack of standard, typical of fairly new technology.
I noticed on the Leaf forum someone mentioned there is not harm in hitting the power button and having the car go into "Park" - unless you are rolling.
There should be some consensus on what the car does as far as "Park" or the "parking break" when the power button is depressed intentionally or not, only what I am saying is that leaving it the way it is on the Spark now is not acceptable IMO. Most likely it the proverbial "risk management" situation, when manufacturer is trying to calculate with some level of certainty, how many death and consequent law suits he can expect from either people been ran over by a rolling car or people causing a havoc on the freeway if the software glitches and the parking break or "park" is applied at 70mph.
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nozferatu
Posts: 575
Joined: Sat Feb 01, 2014 4:47 pm

Re: goes into reverse if not in park.after shutting motor of

Sat Aug 23, 2014 9:29 am

I don't think you can shut the motor off if the car is still in gear....I get a warning chime and indicator saying put the car in P.

This car has creep. Lift off the brake pedal it will move if in gear and the car is on.

Regardless, why not use the parking brake particularly on an incline?

NickM
Posts: 24
Joined: Mon May 26, 2014 2:42 pm

Re: goes into reverse if not in park.after shutting motor of

Sat Aug 23, 2014 5:01 pm

I don't think you can shut the motor off if the car is still in gear....I get a warning chime and indicator saying put the car in P.

This car has creep. Lift off the brake pedal it will move if in gear and the car is on.


All I know when I shut the car motor off when not in park the car does not go into gear or roll untill this happened.
Yes you are right the brake should always be applied incline or otherwise.
But when the gear selector shows forward the car should go forward not reverse.

cwerdna
Posts: 479
Joined: Sun Nov 03, 2013 12:35 am
Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Re: goes into reverse if not in park.after shutting motor of

Sat Aug 23, 2014 6:24 pm

NickM, some of your posts are hard to read and it's even more confusing when you copy and paste someone else's post then include it in your own w/o using the quote tags, which you may have removed.
NickM wrote: But when the gear selector shows forward the car should go forward not reverse.
How? If the car's off, how can it go forward or counteract gravity while in gear?

Even ICEVs or cars w/automatics or CVTs may have insufficient forward creep to prevent rollback on a steep hill w/the engine on and transmission in D.

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