New guy, many questions. Reliability??

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dangerHV

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 12, 2015
Messages
80
So this is a forum.... pretty cool in here.
Hi boys and girls, I've wanted an EV for over 30 years and due to unfortunate circumstances I'll be able to buy one in a couple of months. After a bit of studying I decided the Spark is the only one I want, since a Tesla 3 won't be available til who knows when.
I've been reading this forum from start to finish and I've become excited and equally discouraged at the same time. One of the main reasons for powering a vehicle using an electric motor is the mechanical simplicity, low maintenance, and rugged reliability over an ICE. What I'm reading here is a lot of happy drivers driving bug riddled, quirky, repair prone cars.
Now I understand it's more motivating to write about the negative aspects of of anything new, but I'd like to challenge those who've had you're Spark EV for a year or more, (especially high mileage) to relay stories of high reliability and some positive dealership experiences.
I plan to buy a used Spark with low miles, and have it shipped to Connecticut. I need the positive stories cause I don't want to pay the expenses to keep an ICE car around for backup. (But I guess I will if it's the only way to experience this car)
Nice to meet you-all, I feel like I already know many of you. I'll be posting regularly with technical questions (and answers too).

David
 
dangerHV said:
I plan to buy a used Spark with low miles, and have it shipped to Connecticut. I need the positive stories cause I don't want to pay the expenses to keep an ICE car around for backup. (But I guess I will if it's the only way to experience this car)
So... you're looking for what you want to hear (positive stories) as opposed to something more balanced?

Unfortunately, we'll probably never seen Consumer Reports reliability ratings due to the tiny sales. At least 100 responses are required per model year for a given model year to not receive "insufficient data".

Personally, I'd want something in writing from several Chevy dealers in your area stating they're willing to work on your car, in case you do have problems, since you're not within a state where the Spark EV is sold. If you can't get such a guarantee, then there are other EVs which have support in CT.

Side note: Leafs were cheap in Nor Cal, example was the '13 Leaf SV w/premium package I bought for $9,325 + tax and license: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=431427#p431427. However, as of a week ago, it seems like the situation got worse (http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=435924#p435924). However, I think it'll get better for buyers now that we know the '16 Leaf SV and SL will have a 30 kWh battery, up from 24 kWh and thus 107 mile EPA range rating, instead of 84 miles...
 
Thanks for your input, CW. You are one of the "detail oriented" folks here. I love details.
I've only contacted one dealer here for service and warranty work so far. They said anyone authorized for the Volt can work on the Spark. I may also get the Helm manual for those things I can do myself. I'm not afraid of electricity, I respect it.
Do you really think the "bugs" so often brought up are "balanced" ... to put a better way, it seems to me that 75% of the cars mentioned here have problems of one sort or another. My judgement can be way off at times, though. (I'm not referring to Chevy's "oddities" here, just repairs).
As far as a Leaf, I'm looking for long term ownership and I still don't trust their batteries. The A123's nanophosphate cells are much longer lasting than any others I'm aware of, including LG and Panasonic. It's a shame their energy density per KG is still so low.

David
 
Do get something in writing from that dealer... otherwise, you might find yourself shipping to another dealer, possibly as far Maryland.
dangerHV said:
As far as a Leaf, I'm looking for long term ownership and I still don't trust their batteries. The A123's nanophosphate cells are much longer lasting than any others I'm aware of, including LG and Panasonic. It's a shame their energy density per KG is still so low.
I understand what you're saying on the 1st point. Leaf battery degradation was much worse than what Nissan led us to believe and those in hot climates (e.g. Phoenix) really took a bath.

FWIW, on '16 Leaf SV and SL (ones w/the 30 kWh battery), they upped the capacity warranty to 8 year/100K miles (http://nissannews.com/en-US/nissan/usa/presskits/us-2016-nissan-leaf-press-kit). Old one at http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?t=13192.

And, for pre-'15 Leafs... there are those (probably most) who will suffer worse degradation than what Nissan led us to believe but not enough to qualify for free replacement. :( ('15 Leafs have the "lizard battery": http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=17168.)

A new '16 SV or SL (when available) would be WAY over your budget though.

As for A123's batteries being longer lasting... I dunno. The Spark EV hasn't been out that long, but it does have the benefit of thermal management, unlike the Leaf.
 
dangerHV said:
So this is a forum.... pretty cool in here.
Hi boys and girls, I've wanted an EV for over 30 years and due to unfortunate circumstances I'll be able to buy one in a couple of months. After a bit of studying I decided the Spark is the only one I want, since a Tesla 3 won't be available til who knows when.
I've been reading this forum from start to finish and I've become excited and equally discouraged at the same time. One of the main reasons for powering a vehicle using an electric motor is the mechanical simplicity, low maintenance, and rugged reliability over an ICE. What I'm reading here is a lot of happy drivers driving bug riddled, quirky, repair prone cars.
Now I understand it's more motivating to write about the negative aspects of of anything new, but I'd like to challenge those who've had you're Spark EV for a year or more, (especially high mileage) to relay stories of high reliability and some positive dealership experiences.
I plan to buy a used Spark with low miles, and have it shipped to Connecticut. I need the positive stories cause I don't want to pay the expenses to keep an ICE car around for backup. (But I guess I will if it's the only way to experience this car)
Nice to meet you-all, I feel like I already know many of you. I'll be posting regularly with technical questions (and answers too).

David

Bug riddled? I'm not sure that's correct.

I've had mine for a year and half and really haven't had a single issue with it. It's had a few minor things which turn out to be nuisances of EVs more than actual problems. But every car has issues or problems. If you can name one that doesn't and is still exciting to drive, more power to you.

I've 22,500 miles on my car. I think that says plenty about A) both the reliability, and B) the BS about range anxiety.

It's not a perfect car. It has some drawbacks that I would fix immediately if it wasn't a lease. But I leased it for it to be hassle free. I've got way more miles on it than my lease allows but oh well.

Good luck!
 
I agree with Nozferatu. The last thing I would call my car is "bug-riddled." Except for the AC not working as it should for a short time (a quick software update fixed it), I haven't had a single problem. I've had mine for over two years and have 19,072 miles on it.

I continue to absolutely love my car!
 
I'm sorry for using the term "bug riddled". I wasn't thinking of the many people who love their cars. This was insensitive and if I was an owner I would take offense too. My sincere apologies.
Noz, 22,500 miles is awesome! The A123 cells have been around for a few years now. They are spec'd at 2,000 cycles, 100% DOD, to 80% capacity. Panasonic and most others that publish data are rated around 5-600 cycles, 80% DOD to 80% capacity. I realize there are factors that aren't published making this less than an apples to apples comparison. Check out the "Kilocycle" (0-60 <1 second) if you haven't already. Thay have used A123's for years.
Jsca, I smiled when you wished your "little Spark" a happy second birthday. Two years and nearly 20,000 miles is excellent as well. You were one of the members that I remembered had many positive things to say about the Spark EV. You and a handful of others are what convinced me to pick the Spark EV over the others.
Thanks for responding folks.

David
 
dangerHV said:
Noz, 22,500 miles is awesome! The A123 cells have been around for a few years now.
I can't speak to the cells, but per http://insideevs.com/monthly-plug-in-sales-scorecard/, Spark EV began sales in June 2013.

In comparison, Leaf went on sale December 2010 so it hasn't even hit 5 years yet.

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=20275&p=432693#p432693 is at 143K miles on his '11 Leaf but he's in an ideal climate for Leafs (no battery cooling) and down 5 capacity bars now (per http://www.electricvehiclewiki.com/Battery#Battery_Capacity_Behavior, that means he's lost ~40% capacity). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZEx09f3WNTg was a video on him breaking 100K miles. We've been surprised that Nissan hasn't quietly cut him a deal on a free or deeply discounted replacement battery.

dangerHV said:
Thay have used A123's for years.
I was familiar A123 via the Hymotion kit but they were never real popular and some folks had eventual trouble with theirs: http://priuschat.com/threads/my-hymotion-battery-is-dead-rip-almost-3-years-of-service.95725/. Then A123 stopped selling Hymotion (http://priuschat.com/threads/a123-systems-hymotion-factory-closed.103204/#post-1466178 and https://web.archive.org/web/20120310062627/http://www.hymotion.com/) before they went bankrupt in October 2012 (http://money.cnn.com/2012/10/16/technology/a123-battery-bankruptcy/index.html).

GM switched to LG Chem for '15 Spark EV: http://insideevs.com/gm-shifts-2015-chevy-spark-ev-battery-manufacturing-house-facility/. On that note, Carlos Ghosn's statements on LG Chem (http://insideevs.com/nissan-ceo-best-battery-maker-lg-chem/) raised some eyebrows.
dangerHV said:
since a Tesla 3 won't be available til who knows when.
https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/639172302530215936
https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/639171519197777920

Place your pre-order in March 2016. In theory, the car will ship September 2017. I wouldn't hold your breath for them actually making the $35K price.... as for the date, that to could slip, just like the Model X has slipped a bunch.
 
Thanks for all the links, Cw! This will keep my mind racing for days. Sleep is so overrated. Insideev's is a good site.(was great- way too much advertising being shoved up our noses now). I still check their Battery tech and Tesla regularly.
I hadn't heard of Hymotion before. Sounds very interesting. I'll be delving into it in a few minutes.
As for A123 vs B456 vs Waxaning, I lost track and gave up. All I know is consumers can still buy their cells. AND I just saw they've changed their sales website to www.a123batteries.com - complete with quantity purchase discounts!!! (Hymotion will have to wait till I'm finished crunching some numbers, I'm so excited)
I'll be able to buy a Tesla Model III after I win the Lottery. It'll be a few years since I don't play the lottery.

David
 
dangerHV said:
I hadn't heard of Hymotion before.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A123_Hymotion sums it up fairly well, I think. It was one of the two main PHEV kits for Gen 2 (04 to 09) Priuses.

The other was Enginer, which seemed like an unreliable piece of junk. Hymotion seemed a lot better but I never kept up with that space much, even when I was more of a Prius enthusiast.
 
Never guess a vehicle's reliability based on forum content! No one starts a tread saying they successfully completed a trip today.

Also, the Chevy website lists dealers that can service Volts. It'd probably be worth contacting those nearby to better assess who could service the Spark.
 
Zoomit said:
.... It'd probably be worth contacting those nearby to better assess who could service the Spark.
This is what I did before going for it and dragging a used Spark EV home, dollying it across 4 states.
My local service manager said "It would be no problem. Our Volt techs could do all the servicing and if a special tool is needed it could be shipped in, worst case".

Oh, and 4500 miles since May. Not so much as a hiccup !!
And zero $$ spent on powering it. Come cold weather I'll have to plug in at home to have TMS for the battery overnight but I still won't charge it at home.
 
And thanks again, NORTON! Reliability is the most important feature of a car for me. I hate those few occasions when I have to call the boss to tell them I'll be late cause my car is broke.

David
 
Hi Danger HV:

MY Spark has about 18000 miles, and I've had it for about a year and a half. I've only had one strange problem where the connecter to the negative lead of the 12volt battery was faulty, preventing the car from turning on. Once that was replaced, I've never had any major issues. I moved from the Southern California area to Edmonton, and drove my Spark over 2000 miles in the middle of winter. Only needed a tow once, as I miscalculated an elevational increase in Northern California. I also did a 120mile round trip on a single charge, while experiencing a ~6500 foot elevation change. In total, I've only needed three tows, once due to the 12volt battery issue, once because I was distracted on a date :lol: , and the other on the way up to Edmonton.

-I'm not sure how bad the winters are in Connecticut, but there are some things you may want to know about how the vehicle preforms in the winter. I put on Michelin Ice X-3 tires (low rolling resistance)- they are as good as you're going to get in terms of efficiency for a winter tire, but they will still reduce range a bit- I'd say by about 5% or so; they are probably worth it if you have black ice.
-Make sure you keep the car plugged in at night. Once while in Calgary, the temperature dropped to -25 celsius and I didn't have the car plugged in. Went to turn on the car the next morning and it went into "power savings mode" until the battery was warmed up enough.
-In the middle of winter, you might lose around 20% - 25% range due to the reduced temperatures, or winter weather, so keep that in mind. Try to use the heated seats instead of the HVAC system.

Also, I noticed on plugshare there are three SAE combo stations in Connecticut right now. Additionally, along the Eastern Seaboard, there are enough stations to take you clear from Florida all the way to Maine on mostly quick chargers. Thus, I would highly recommend you get a Spark with the CCS quick charge port.
 
xylhim I can't thank you enough for your story and advice! This is the kind of info that's been a bit ..."sparse" here on the forum. I'm sure these kinds of stories will spread as well. You and the others - in just a couple of days - have...refreshed my confidence in electric drive! 18,000 miles and the only problem has been a loose connection. AWESOME!
As far as winters in Connecticut, we had our coldest on record last season and the temp dropped to -12f (-24c), the coldest I've felt in my 52 years, but -5f (-20c) is the lowest it normally gets around here. It wasn't THAT bad. As long as my car starts, I'm happy.I don't know where I'll be living or what access if any I'll have to overnight electricity. (but I'm up for the challenge)
I've been searching for a 2014 with DC Fast charge but I'm pretty much giving up on that much desired option. They're just nowhere to be found. (I actually live a short drive from the fast charger in Hartford) Some dealers have new 2015's with the fast charger and don't even put that into their ad's. Enough babbling for now. Thanks again (everyone), please keep the positive stories coming, for everyone's sake!

David
 
dangerHV said:
.... Some dealers have new 2015's with the fast charger and don't even put that into their ad's. ....

This was is true. They just don't have a clue.
When I was searching for a used '14 Spark EV, it got to the point where I would tell the internet sales person to "Send a picture of the open charge port door, and we can talk further."

Then some would send a google link to 'Images of charge port on Spark EV' with dozens of different pictures..
I'd have to say "Yes, those are pictures... Please send me a picture of the car you have for sale with the door OPEN." Some would send pictures with the door closed....

Also, you should hide your enthusiasm for this option. You don't want to give them bait. I had the 3 letter code for the option and you can track down the 'build sheet' or some paper work for the car, but a simple picture is the easiest.

Definitely hold out for the DCFC option. It's the future !!!!
 
NORTON I agree that the dcfc is the future and many salespeople are clueless. I see you live in KC which has embraced EV's. I very much want the DCFC and am willing to pay a premium. I've emailed many dealers and most have responded with "no DCFC, but can I interest you in this....". (To some it's like "No, we don't have that feature in the Spark EV, but would you like to come in this afternoon to test drive the beautiful Chevy Suburban we just got in?) To their credit, some do actually know what their talking about and understand the value of DCFC.

David
 
I forgot: Is there a way to access the build sheet online? One dealer actually sent me a copy of the build sheet of a car I was inquiring about.

David
 
I'm almost reluctant to mention this as I have considered buying the second one. This dealer had two essentially new (less than 70 mi) 2014's both with DCFC. I bought the first one, identical to this one, about 6 weeks ago. Totally pleased with the car. I bought it sight unseen and had it transported to FL.

The remaining one's price has been lowered to about $600 less than I paid for mine. Contact: Zach Miller (I'm in no way associated with Miller Brothers)

Dave

http://www.millerbrosauto.com/VehicleDetails/used-2014-Chevrolet-Spark_EV-Hatch_2LT_%28Automatic%29-Ellicott_City-MD/2540724643
 
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