So the salesman tells me...

So the Chevy salesman tells me that the Spark is compatible with the quick charging stations here in Oregon (there is a Blink brand station a few miles from my house that has both quick charging and Level 2).

In reading this forum, it appears there is some type of "what standard to use" war between Chevy and Nissan.

So my question is, are the Sparks really compatible with the quick charging stations we currently have here in Oregon? Or, are Sparks set up to be compatible with a different type of quick charging station, none of which have been built yet here in Oregon?

On balance, I'm leaning toward the Spark for its zippy demeanor, lower down payment (on lease deal), and home charging station credit. The 3yrs of OnStar is a nice perk too.

On the Leaf's side of the balance sheet it's the usual specifications others have mentioned (interior room, faster home charging, and clearly it will work with the fast chargers here).

If anyone can shed light on the fast charging compatibility issue, I would love to hear from you.

EVGuy said:

So the Chevy salesman tells me that the Spark is compatible with the quick charging stations here in Oregon (there is a Blink brand station a few miles from my house that has both quick charging and Level 2).

In reading this forum, it appears there is some type of "what standard to use" war between Chevy and Nissan.

So my question is, are the Sparks really compatible with the quick charging stations we currently have here in Oregon? Or, are Sparks set up to be compatible with a different type of quick charging station, none of which have been built yet here in Oregon?

On balance, I'm leaning toward the Spark for its zippy demeanor, lower down payment (on lease deal), and home charging station credit. The 3yrs of OnStar is a nice perk too.

On the Leaf's side of the balance sheet it's the usual specifications others have mentioned (interior room, faster home charging, and clearly it will work with the fast chargers here).

If anyone can shed light on the fast charging compatibility issue, I would love to hear from you.

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None of the current QCs in Oregon, which are all CHAdeMO, will charge the Spark. Nor is the Spark currently available with ANY QC port, although that should change later in the year when CCS becomes available for it (probably as a $750 option). Even so, unless and until CCS Quick Chargers get installed in Oregon, you'll be SoL as far as using QC.

The salesman is either clueless or lying; either is likely. Just open up the charge port and have a look; there are five pins in a circle above for J1772 (for Level 1 and 2 AC charging), and then below that are two larger pins side by side for the DC Level 2 QC. The latter are covered by a dark gray or black fixed piece of plastic in cars that don't have the QC option (which is all of them now); the cars that do have it will have a spring-loaded hinged piece of plastic, possibly orange like the prototypes, which will fold down exposing the pins.

See the illustrations here:

http://www.mychevysparkev.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=3412

gra,

Thank you for the response. Unfortunately I didn't get it before going back to the dealership. I leased the Spark EV believing it could use the quick charger near my house (salesman reconfirmed this during the "deal" phase of the dealership trip).

I'm a bit torn. I really like the Spark and how it drives. I may have gone ahead with it anyway. But, the quick charge capability was a factor. Plus I got a great value on my trade-in which I absolutely do not want back.

I can learn so much more from Spark owners online than from Spark salespeople in person...

In this case i would take it back to the dealer and ask them to demonstrate how they would charge the car on the charger that you were promised it would work. If they fail, they should take the car back. If you dont have the possibility to install your own charger at home, you bought the wrong car.

To give you an idea though, after almost 2months of daily driving, 2000 miles experience, i can say:
- every evening when i get back home, i still have about 50mi range left in the battery, although my commute is 26mi one way
- although i have a 240V charger, i havent installed it yet, and i recently switched to charging on 8A rather 12A with the regular charger. range is by far not an issue, as long as you charge the car at night and are in a decent distance from work.
- regarding the high voltage (400V+) chargers, there are mainly 2 emerging standards, but very few (if any) installations. there will be a war, it will be won by one or the other, but the war was not started yet. in 3 years from now, when it will, your lease will be up and you'll know what to choose.
- the superchargers will be good for planning long distance trips rather than day-to-day usage patterns. i dont fantasize about driving in the spark to vegas, or yosemite; it's not made for that. i use my other car.

All these apply to both the volt and the spark. However, driving the spark puts a smile on my face every day; havent had that since i had a honda s2000.

Drivefast,

Thanks so much for sharing your experience with your Spark and ideas in dealing with the dealer.

Oddly, there is a level 3 charger across the street from our primary grocery store in our home town. About 2 miles from our house. I wanted to be able to use it.

But, I do plan on having a level 2 charger in the garage, and I only drive 25 miles each day, total, commuting to work. The credit toward a home charger was also a big factor for me in choosing the Spark, because even when the lease is over I will still have the home charger for the next EV.

And you are right, I'm not going to go on any cross country trips with this car; it fits my needs.

Also, you are so right about how driving the car puts a smile on your face. I read an earlier post of yours that said that same thing, and I thought of your comment when I did the test drive and started smiling.

I may prod the dealer a bit, because the salesman should not be saying the car has a quick charge port, or that it will work here in Oregon. But, in all likelihood I won't even try to send it back. My trade it, a gutless 4cyl Jeep Liberty, never put a smile on my face.

By the way, on the drive home from the dealer my 11 year old daughter was thoroughly wowed by the touchscreen interface and OnStart features. She exclaimed "This car is like an iPhone 5 with wheels!"

oh, if you have one of those lightning chargers next to your house, then your dilemma makes sense. if i had the same, i can think of scenarios when i would go there just because i need an emergency charge. how often would that happen? if i extrapolate statistically my first 2 months, i would have to say less than 6 times a year but yeah, having one of those in a reachable place would be reassuring, and having one that doesnt fit your car would be annoying.

my dealer also almost convinced me that the fast charger was on the car. when i pointed out where it should be, he said that is just a plastic cap, which will be removed during the delivery preparation. i had him write it down and he had to pay for that mistake. it's scary how unprepared the dealers are when selling electric cars. Elon Musk is right to insist that selling cars thru dealerships is the wrong way to do it.

regarding kids, my 5 year old is very proud of "sparky". he literally started crying when some guests parked their car in the "sparking spot", which is sparky's designated sleeping place. and last week, i heard him talking to a girl in his class, who comes to school in a white bentley every morning: "yes but your car is not electric". (by the way, driving sparky in the school's parking lot freaks me out. it's so silent, nobody can hear it coming.)

drivefast said:

...my dealer also almost convinced me that the fast charger was on the car. when i pointed out where it should be, he said that is just a plastic cap, which will be removed during the delivery preparation. i had him write it down and he had to pay for that mistake. it's scary how unprepared the dealers are when selling electric cars.

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This is EXACTLY what my sales guy said. He said you flip up the plastic cap and it will accept the quick charger. Grrrrr.

On the other hand, it does make me smile the way the kids are so enthusiastic about the car, just like your kids. My daughter suggested the nickname "sparky". I told her that one was taken and we had to come up with something else.

EVGuy,

I am about to purchase a Spark as well, and I am in the Portland area (westside). What dealership was that? I want to make sure to know incase I walk in to a place that has no idea of what they are selling.

Some good news is I have read that Oregon is going to start installing the SAE Combo DC Fast charging stations over the next 12 months. It will be added as part of the West Coast Electric Hwy.

From owning my spark for a few weeks, I agree that like most people, I could probably get away with charging on the 120V portable charger only. However, I'm having a 240V charger installed for two reasons: My power bill is high, and I only get the EV super-off-peak rates from midnight-6am. Going to 240V lets me charge over half of the capacity during the low-cost period. Second, I want to take advantage of the incentives available now, and have a quality charger available for future EVs.

ecilopaveht: I sent you a PM re which dealership it is.

So here's the response I got from the Salesman, after first emailing his boss. By the way, his boss was very nice, professional, and promised to make things right even if it means undoing the transaction. The salesman is being a bit more slippery. Here's his response:

The spark ev uses the sae j1772 combo charger that gives it a 80% charge in 20 minutes. This charger is the new standard going forward and is going to be the way ev cars will be fast charged in the usa going forward. BMW, Ford, VW and GM have decided that this will be there standard as well as the eu supporting the standard.

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He didn't say any of this yesterday. He just copied and pasted it out of this article today: http://www.sustainablebusinessorego...ew-ev-quick-charger-hits-oregon.html?page=all

He also claimed in a text to me that adapters were coming that would allow the Spark to charge on the 24 CHAdeMO chargers that are already operational in Oregon.

I'm going to the dealership this evening to ask them to show me how the car is supposed to take a quick charge.

EVGuy said:

...
He also claimed in a text to me that adapters were coming that would allow the Spark to charge on the 24 CHAdeMO chargers that are already operational in Oregon.

I'm going to the dealership this evening to ask them to show me how the car is supposed to take a quick charge.

Click to expand...

I hope you get more info on the adapter. Once they are convinced that your car will not take a QC of any sort, ask about retrofitting the QC port to your car. I've heard it both ways, and the last salesman I talked to told me it would not be available as a retrofit...

If having QC capability on the car is mandatory, then you should really read this thread:

http://www.mychevysparkev.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=3408

To summarise, QC isn't available on the car now, won't be for some months, and it's entirely a matter of guessing when or even if CCS QCs will be installed in Oregon. It's highly unlikely that it can be retrofitted. Nor is it likely that an adapter will be available so that CCS-equipped cars can use CHAdeMO quick chargers, as CHAdeMO and CCS use different communication protocols - it's not just a matter of providing a cord with appropriate adapter plugs and sockets. What will need to happen is that either solely CCS or else dual-capable CHAdeMO/CCS chargers are installed in Oregon and elsewhere, for CCS-equipped cars to use them. This will happen in California, as NRG Energy will be installing a couple hundred dual-capable chargers as part of a legal settlement with the state over past bad behavior by one of their subsidiaries.

The owner in the above thread took his car back to the dealer and had them undo the deal when he found he was misinformed. Such bad info isn't rare; when I visited a local dealer for a test drive, I too was informed that the car could use existing QCs blah blah blah. I told the salesperson that it could not, and why. He did have the grace to admit he was wrong, via email. The basic rule is to assume that the salespeople are clueless about EVs and infrastructure, if not out and out liars who just want to sell you a car.

You'll find that owners and people who follow EVs tend to be far more knowledgeable about the cars that most salespeople. A site such as this one, and especially mynissanleaf.com, the oldest of the EV-specific forums other than Tesla, will almost always give you more accurate and up-to-date info than you can get from a dealer or salesperson, even one that's trying to give you good info instead of just selling you a car. EVs are too new and different for the public to have any institutional knowledge of what to expect and what questions to ask. That's why Tesla doesn't want to sell their car through franchised dealers, because their salespeople are used to selling ICEs and work on commission. Tesla's people are there to educate and advise you, not sell you a car. Unfortunately, all other EVs are sold through the regular dealer network, with results like yours.

Thanks,

I got your PM, I hope they do the right thing and make you whole, what ever this is for you. Here is what I understand there are no Sparks with the SAE Combo Fast charging port yet. Even if there were Sparks with this plug, from what I understand you just can not simply add an adapter as they have their own protocol and would not be able to talk with the car.

So unless the Spark will have an onboard charger with built-in CHAdeMO protocols it would be impossible to use these type of chargers.

EVGuy said:

ecilopaveht: I sent you a PM re which dealership it is.

So here's the response I got from the Salesman, after first emailing his boss. By the way, his boss was very nice, professional, and promised to make things right even if it means undoing the transaction. The salesman is being a bit more slippery. Here's his response:

The spark ev uses the sae j1772 combo charger that gives it a 80% charge in 20 minutes. This charger is the new standard going forward and is going to be the way ev cars will be fast charged in the usa going forward. BMW, Ford, VW and GM have decided that this will be there standard as well as the eu supporting the standard.

Click to expand...

He didn't say any of this yesterday. He just copied and pasted it out of this article today: http://www.sustainablebusinessorego...ew-ev-quick-charger-hits-oregon.html?page=all

He also claimed in a text to me that adapters were coming that would allow the Spark to charge on the 24 CHAdeMO chargers that are already operational in Oregon.

I'm going to the dealership this evening to ask them to show me how the car is supposed to take a quick charge.

Click to expand...

Sparkler: I did talk to the sales guy and a manager in the service dept about adapters. Both were non-committal. The service guy tried telling me that I didn't want to ever use a quick charger anyway, because they get so hot it compromises battery life. The beleaguered salesman said "He doesn't care, it's a lease." I thought that his response was kinda funny. All to say, I think GRA has it nailed. No one knows much of anything definite. The entire EV sector is just too new.

ecilopaveht: You and GRA have said the same thing, and it fits with my experience with this dealer -- there are no Spark EVs with SAE universal quick charging ports. Right now, owning a Spark EV means charging with a regular old wall socket or a level 2 charger, and no trips down the electric highway.

GRA: What can I say other than thanks for the rock solid info. I wish you had been the dealer rep I was dealing with the last couple of days. These dealers need someone as knowledgeable as you. From the link you included and the experience of others on this thread, it sounds like many of us are getting the same crackpot assurances from sales people that the Spark can utilize a quick charger. My guy didn't even know there were two different protocols, though he did have the grace, eventually, to acknowledge that the car would not accept either one.

So I'm left wondering if I really need the ability to quick charge in 20 minutes. It's a psychological safety net for sure. But would I really use it that often? And, I really like the zip and feel of driving the Spark.

It should all be resolved, one way or the other, by this weekend.

EVGuy said:

So I'm left wondering if I really need the ability to quick charge in 20 minutes. It's a psychological safety net for sure. But would I really use it that often? And, I really like the zip and feel of driving the Spark.

It should all be resolved, one way or the other, by this weekend.

Click to expand...

My sense is that for most people the Spark is a second local commuter car. If you need to go out of town, take your ICE (or Tesla, if you have one). If both of you need to go out of town in different directions at the same time, rent an ICE.

This very issue is why I started posting on this forum... I knew that GM and their less than honest (or just clueless) dealers would sell you anything you wanted to hear. Don't worry, some of them will also sell you a used car with almost zero miles on it so that the dealer can take up to $10,000 in government incentives that YOU should get.

The $7500 federal tax credit (IRS form 8936) applies to new cars only with purchase only, not on a lease.

The $2,500 California state rebate is for new cars only. Apply here (your state or province may also have incentives for out of state sales). CAVEAT EMPTOR: known dealer scam is to sell you a "used" car and keep the tax credit and/or rebate.


1. The Chevy Spark EV will never be able to use the existing thousands of CHAdeMO chargers.

2. The West Coast Electric Highway has zero of the GM "Frankenplug" DC quick chargers.

3. There is not a single operational, public Frankenplug DC quick charger in the USA.

4. There is not, nor likely will there be, an adapter that you can use on CHAdeMO chargers.

5. Any rollout of Frankenplug chargers probably won't match the multiple CHAdeMO chargers that are being installed each and every day somewhere in the world.

6. My opinion is that Frankenplug is Dead On Arrival.

7. Click on this link to see how many CHAdeMO stations there are in the world:

http://www.chademo.com/

Spark is going to be our third car between me and my wife and will be strictly use for daily commute to work which is about 48 miles round trip so charging every night should not be a problem. However, to summarize charging options and compare against similarly priced Leaf for novices like me -

(Tony, can you please confirm my understanding....thanks!!)

Charging Options for Spark ---
1. 120v at home
2. 240v at home (with an installed charging station)
NO Public charging option available. That means I cannot use the EV charging station at work or free charging station available at Target. (Is this a true statement??)

Charging options for Leaf ---
1. 120v at home
2. 240 at home (with an installed charging station)
3. Public Charging (including the one at work or at Target)
4. DC quick charge (if bought as an option)

So, now question for me --- (looking just from charging perspective) is it worth paying an additional $1000 down and may be another $50 a month to get option of public charging and go with Leaf OR just go for in-home charging and go with a better car.

public charging stations are 240V, and you can expect from them the same performance (charging time) as from a 240V unit that you have at home. you can charge any electric or plugin-hybrid car currently on the market at most of the public charging stations. it's your call regarding the practicality of driving too far and having to sit around a public charger for hours, to get your battery filled up.

last time i checked there were very few (like *very* few) DC high-voltage charge stations (the ones that would take minutes to charge, instead of hours). the spark and the leaf use different types of plugs for DC charging, and the sparks that are currently selling dont have the DC option installed. it's hard to say whether one standard will eventually beat the other. also, at one point i expect the DC charging stations to start having both kind of plugs.

to answer your questions, yes, you can charge the spark from public chargers in exactly the same places where you would charge a leaf, and it would take just as long. the leaf has an option for a fast DC charging, but again, there are almost no chargers like that anywhere. and if you have 3 cars, you are 25mi from work, and you use the electric car as a commuter, i dont think you will ever need to use a public charging station. takes too much planning to. (it's exactly my usage pattern as well.)

buying a leaf with a DC charger option is like betting $1000+ on the fact that their charger option will win the market. chances are it will be a tie. you will probably not find out who won in the next 3 years. it's more like a gamble than an utility.

@ butler;

Public Charging: you can use any public charging station that has the J1772 connector, and I'm very sure that all of them do.
(I have a 26 mile one-way commute and rarely use the public chargers that my employer has in the parking lot - but I have used them without any problems. They are Chargepoint units and I have to wave my Chargepoint RFID card to release the J1772 connector and pay $1.00 per hour of hook up. I usually get to a full charge within 2-3 hours, depending on how depleted my Spark's battery had become).

I recently got the Aerovironment charger installed at home, which replaced the Chevy-supplied 120V charger. This made a significant difference in the time it takes to recharge the Spark - reducing the time from 10+ hours to 4 hours (or less) to get from a 48-50 mile range to a full charge). My typical routine is to plug in once I get home around 6 pm, and the Spark is fully charged before 10 pm (my plan it change this in a few weeks to have the charging start in the early hours and schedule the charging to be complete by 5 am, thereby taking full advantage of the lowest possible eletricity rates and reducing peak electrical demand from the grid).

The bottom line is that you CAN use public charging for your Spark, so be sure to get your Chargepoint and/or Blink account activated.

Thanks Much Gambit and Drivefast!!