Buying a used 2014 Spark EV 2LT - bad idea??

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flavioguy

Member
Joined
Dec 6, 2016
Messages
19
Location
Silver City, NM
A local Fiat dealer has a 2014 Spark EV 2LT (with 11K miles) @ $10400 plus fees.

A bunch of questions especially after trolling this forum which created even more questions:
1. Decent price?
2. Doesn't have a DCFC - problem in the future
3. Battery degradation - a problem for these cars?
4. Has anyone had GM replace the batteries from degradation? If so, what were the circumstances?
5. Is buying this used vehicle a bad idea vs leasing?

Some data about me. Live in the desert, would only drive to work ~10 miles one way and there are charging stations in the area if needed. Concerned that I'll buy this car and then the batteries will go bad and GM will balk at replacing them under warranty.
 
Sounds like you know the drawbacks of not having DCFC. Soon you may be able to use this car as a road trip car,,,, if it had DCFC and you were patient. ;)

As for price, Never, Ever pay asking price.

They have a weird car.
You have to convince them it's a turkey and get the best price. Patience is always a virtue.

I have no fear of 'being dumped by GM' with my '14 Spark EV. They are trying to be one of the leaders in EVs! :!:

All Li-Ion batteries have degradation. As always, these are still the early days. Only time will tell.
 
Nikwax.....not necessarily, EVs are totally new territory for me. I don't want to lay down a stack o' cash and then find the car is worth nothing without new/reconditioned, very expensive batteries.

Norton - I personally don't need DCFC as I have a dino burner too. But always thinkin' resale value.
Thanks for the rest of your input. What's your honest impression of your EV?

My brother is a GM mechanic and he said steer clear of the regular Spark but thought the EV was good.
 
flavioguy said:
A local Fiat dealer has a 2014 Spark EV 2LT (with 11K miles) @ $10400 plus fees.

A bunch of questions especially after trolling this forum which created even more questions:
1. Decent price?
2. Doesn't have a DCFC - problem in the future
3. Battery degradation - a problem for these cars?
4. Has anyone had GM replace the batteries from degradation? If so, what were the circumstances?
5. Is buying this used vehicle a bad idea vs leasing?

Some data about me. Live in the desert, would only drive to work ~10 miles one way and there are charging stations in the area if needed. Concerned that I'll buy this car and then the batteries will go bad and GM will balk at replacing them under warranty.

As a datapoint for you, I recently bought a leftover 2015 LT2 with DCFC and 100 miles on it for $12,500. They were asking $14k and I talked them down. All done via email.

If I were you, I'd offer $9k and not go over $9.5k. Make sure to point out that the value on these 90 mile BEVs is going to crash once the 260 mile Bolt starts shipping. And that this car doesn't have DCFC (make it seem like you really want DCFC, but would still buy at the right price). Also, have them fully charge the car and look at how many miles it shows with a full charge. Odds are the number will be low because the last 5 people that test drove it were driving aggressively. Point out that the number should be 82 miles and the lower number indicates the battery is degraded (total BS, but they won't know that).

As for reliability, I'm a little leery of the A123 batteries in the 2014. The bottom plate TMS they use isn't as good as the system the LG/Chem batteries use. And, it's unclear exactly why GM abandoned using them after 2014. Possibly it was just because A123 could no longer supply them. But, on the positive side, I've yet to see a post about a total battery failure. And, the battery is larger than the 15-16 battery, so any degradation will be less apparent.

If you live in one of the states where you can lease a new Spark (and can find a leftover new spark), I would absolutely do that. The lease deal this month is super cheap.
 
Dealer quoted me $35K for replacement battery if it has to be done outside of warranty. Yes, it's $10K more than the new car price. Keep that in mind if you think you'll have to replace the battery without warranty.

As for degradation, my 2015 has degraded less than 5% in almost 2 years, but some others have seen worse. YMMV. If you can test drive it for ~50 miles, you can get a sense of battery capacity by looking at % state of charge and kWh used from full. Of course, you have to start from full to do this test.

As for DCFC, I personally wouldn't buy any EV without DCFC; it's just too limiting without it. But if golf-cart is your lifestyle, non-DCFC might be ok.
 
Thanks all for the valuable input!!

There is a 2015 EV 2LT with 13K miles but they are way out of line with the price IMHO....$14.6K. I'm in no hurry!
 
CCIE said:
As for reliability, I'm a little leery of the A123 batteries in the 2014. The bottom plate TMS they use isn't as good as the system the LG/Chem batteries use. And, it's unclear exactly why GM abandoned using them after 2014. Possibly it was just because A123 could no longer supply them. But, on the positive side, I've yet to see a post about a total battery failure. And, the battery is larger than the 15-16 battery, so any degradation will be less apparent.

The LG Chem batteries have a different temp management system than the A123? 1st I have hear of this. How it different? I only heard in the 2014 it had a lot of point where it could leak coolant....
 
For another price data point, I paid $19.5 for a brand new `16 LT2 with DCFC this July = $12K after the tax break.
Bargain them down, and don't be afraid to walk if they won't move. They will call you back...
 
CSW said:
The LG Chem batteries have a different temp management system than the A123? 1st I have hear of this. How it different? I only heard in the 2014 it had a lot of point where it could leak coolant....
The way I read it is: the '14 Spark EV has a cooling/heating plate that all the cells sit on. This is the system used in the Bolt, so it can't be that inferior.
The '15 Spark EV uses the inter-cell cooling plates that have always been used on the Volts. (it seems this TMS system might have more potential for leaks, but I have never read of any reports of this)
 
NORTON said:
CSW said:
The LG Chem batteries have a different temp management system than the A123? 1st I have hear of this. How it different? I only heard in the 2014 it had a lot of point where it could leak coolant....
The way I read it is: the '14 Spark EV has a cooling/heating plate that all the cells sit on. This is the system used in the Bolt, so it can't be that inferior.
The '15 Spark EV uses the inter-cell cooling plates that have always been used on the Volts. (it seems this TMS system might have more potential for leaks, but I have never read of any reports of this)

Correct, the 14 Spark and the Bolt use a horizontal cooling/warming plate that the battery cells are stacked on top of. So, only the lower cells are in direct contact with the plate. The 15/16 Spark and Volt have a cooling/warming plate between each cell pack. So, each cell is in contact with a plate. I prefer that design. Time will tell which design is better.
 
CCIE said:
NORTON said:
CSW said:
The LG Chem batteries have a different temp management system than the A123? 1st I have hear of this. How it different? I only heard in the 2014 it had a lot of point where it could leak coolant....
The way I read it is: the '14 Spark EV has a cooling/heating plate that all the cells sit on. This is the system used in the Bolt, so it can't be that inferior.
The '15 Spark EV uses the inter-cell cooling plates that have always been used on the Volts. (it seems this TMS system might have more potential for leaks, but I have never read of any reports of this)

Correct, the 14 Spark and the Bolt use a horizontal cooling/warming plate that the battery cells are stacked on top of. So, only the lower cells are in direct contact with the plate. The 15/16 Spark and Volt have a cooling/warming plate between each cell pack. So, each cell is in contact with a plate. I prefer that design. Time will tell which design is better.

Yes, this is how I have heard it described, BUT the opposite in that the 2014 has them between the batteries, whereas the 15 and 16 and the Bolt (and Tesla for that matter) have it where it is a big cooling plate outside the battery packs, therefor has less possible leak points...... I kinda remember reading where the Bolt has the cooling plates like Tesla as it was a better design, so it makes more sense that the 2014 would be the other design?
 
flavioguy said:
A local Fiat dealer has a 2014 Spark EV 2LT (with 11K miles) @ $10400 plus fees.

A bunch of questions especially after trolling this forum which created even more questions:
1. Decent price?
2. Doesn't have a DCFC - problem in the future
3. Battery degradation - a problem for these cars?
4. Has anyone had GM replace the batteries from degradation? If so, what were the circumstances?
5. Is buying this used vehicle a bad idea vs leasing?

Some data about me. Live in the desert, would only drive to work ~10 miles one way and there are charging stations in the area if needed. Concerned that I'll buy this car and then the batteries will go bad and GM will balk at replacing them under warranty.
Get you best price and buy it! I purchased a used 2014 Spark EV 2LT, without DCFC, 15 months ago. The car had been a Hertz Rental and it only had 1500 miles on the ODO. The 3 year warranty will be up next June but the HV battery warranty - 8 yrs or 100k miles - will be in effect for a while. The car has 8300 miles on it now and I have not had a single problem. I have been tracking my calculated battery capacity for the last 9 months and yes, I do see some degradation but, recently, it seems to have leveled off and now looks more like what my 2015 Spark EV 2LT [14,400 miles on the ODO] battery capacity is doing. Almost all of my driving is around town although recently I have had to drive the freeway 15 miles to Stockton, CA for jury duty. Morning temperatures have been in the high 30s and low 40s so I have been using the heater and driving at freeway speeds of 60-65 mph. As a result, my full-charge range has dropped from 105 miles to 82 miles and may drop a bit further. From previous winter experience late last year and earlier this year, I expected this to happen and I just work with what I have - no problem! I do all of my charging at home using a Bosch L2 EVSE.
My 2015 Spark EV 2LT does have the DCFC option and, so far, I have ventured out - in milder weather - more than 150 miles from home. I use PlugShare to find the DCFC stations I need to get to my long-range destinations. One of those destinations was a drive my wife and I took up to South Lake Tahoe and back. The trip back down was quite an experience and the car performed fantastically.
 
flavioguy said:
MrDrMorgan......thanks for the input! Care to share what you paid OTD for the 2014?
I purchased my 2014 Spark EV 2LT in August 2015 from a Chevy dealer and I paid $13999 plus tax, license and doc fees. The OTD total was $15,408. As I mentioned, the car was in perfect new-car condition, only had 1500 miles on it and all warranties were still in effect. Basically it was a used-new Sparkie. Right now, in my area, a used 2014 Spark EV 2 LT with 10-12K miles on it is selling for about $10K-$11K. I use cargurus.com to keep track of used Spark EV prices in my area as I plan to purchase my 2015 Spark EV 2LT when the lease expires in May of 2018 and I do not want to pay GMAC any more than I need to.
 
For what it's worth, I returned my 2014 Spark EV LT1 last month at the end of the three year lease. It was a great car, and was entirely trouble free except for one early minor issue fixed under warranty. I did not notice any battery degradation at all after 21000 miles and three years. We thought about buying it at the lease end but got a fantastic deal on a new 2016 1LT with DCFC so we bought the new one instead.

Bottom line, if you can get it for $10Kish it's a great idea.
 
I traded my 2014 spark in with 38k miles on it and I never noticed any range loss. Car never had any issues. I had the 1LT with the DCFC. If you can buy for 10k or less, prob a good deal. I leased a new 2016 and will prob buy it at the end of the lease for 10k or less.
 
CSW said:
I traded my 2014 spark in with 38k miles on it and I never noticed any range loss. Car never had any issues. I had the 1LT with the DCFC. If you can buy for 10k or less, prob a good deal. I leased a new 2016 and will prob buy it at the end of the lease for 10k or less.

I have 35k miles on my 2014, another 6 months left on the lease, and it also has shown 0 battery degradation. Some of that could be because of the way GM manages the battery, holding some in reserve to keep the range high through the warranty period. Haven't had a single issue, have the DCFC and use it from time to time, wouldn't buy a car without the DCFC capability.

I'm disappointed GM didn't keep the Spark EV alive, the range of the Bolt does nothing for me and the far higher price is a substantial deterrent.
 
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