Which charger to choose?

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nmikmik

Well-known member
Joined
May 16, 2014
Messages
142
Location
San Diego, CA
Spoke with Bosch rep. today.

He is pushing the Power express charger, I suspect for the obvious reason, it's more money.
My question is, what is the probable best choice in my situation.
I am currently using the stock 110V charger, it's working fine, but you know - it is slow...
I am using utility power i.e. no PV supplementation, at least yet.

I really like the Voltec charger becasue of the price and the features it has, but.... I am not sure about the amperage. The Voltec seems to come only in 15A hard wire setup. :( The next step up (in my mind) would be the Power Max 30A with 18ft cord $593, it's not coiled and short. The next iteration would be pretty much the same charger only with 7ft longer cord and $156 higher price tag. I know I should be getting a rebate, but I still have to pay the difference.
I hear some people are dissatisfied or at least had at first defective charger/bad experience with it.

How much faster will I be able to charge my Spark with 30A compare to the 15A charger? Is it a linear progression, where twice more amps = twice the speed of charging?

I just don't want to end up with the wrong charger and/or overpay for something I don't really need.
Of course I don't want to miss on the rebate thing, I think it ends on May 31st.

Thanks,
 
From what I understand because the Spark EV only has a 3.3kW charger onboard, there will be no difference between charge time at a unit above 16A. That's part of the reason I got the Power Max 16A. Most people get the 30A because they're thinking ahead and want to be somewhat future proof for their EV once their spark lease comes due and because they want more than 12 feet of cord. I think the difference between 15A and 16A would be negligible, especially if you're just plugging in at night.
As for the Bosch Power Max, I did get a bad unit but I talked to Bosch and they already have a replacement on the way. So, if it works and I only paid $40 for the unit and $230 for the install which I think is pretty damn economical. One other thing to note is that if you don't already have the wiring or outlet set up, the higher the amperage unit you get, the more expensive the material will be because you'll need higher rated wiring and breakers and whatnot. Also, just because it says hardwired, doesn't mean you can't add a pigtail dryer cord like this: http://tiny.cc/neqlgx so that it's plug and play.
One final word of advice, I would act quick as I wasn't able to contact Bosch the first day I tried to order and you definitely don't want to miss the $500 rebate.
 
OP, the charger is on-board the car. You're looking for an EVSE. See http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=14728&p=332668#p332668.
Chaconzies said:
From what I understand because the Spark EV only has a 3.3kW charger onboard, there will be no difference between charge time at a unit above 16A. That's part of the reason I got the Power Max 16A. Most people get the 30A because they're thinking ahead and want to be somewhat future proof for their EV once their spark lease comes due and because they want more than 12 feet of cord. I think the difference between 15A and 16A would be negligible, especially if you're just plugging in at night.
Correct on all of the above. The bottleneck here when charging at 240 volts is the car's on-board charger. 30 amp EVSE will not increase charging speed of the current Spark EV at all. It will help w/other vehicles w/greater than 3.3 kW OBCs (e.g. just about all other pure BEVs currently sold except the '13+ Leaf S w/o charge package (comes w/charge package and on standard w/'13+ Leaf SV and SL), Smart ED and i-Miev).
 
Thank you both,

and yes I understand the difference, just used the wrong terminology...
But that's exactly what I wanted to know, if the 3.3kw will be causing the bottleneck effect for me regardless of the amps on my EVSE

Voltec then it is, I don't care much about the future charging becasue it all can change in 3 years and the one I get now can easily become obsolete, plus the prices "should" drop anyway.

Thanks again, :D
 
Many Chevy Volt owners have reported their Voltec units failing within, or soon after, their warranty expires.

I have one, and it's been working ok now for 9 months. Only, the plug head broke apart where it plugs into the car. It was major work to tear it apart and repair it. Pictures: Voltec J1772 failure

I've seen good reports about Clipper Creek units. I am building a "Juice Box" from a kit from http://www.emotorwerks.com/
 
SteveC5088 said:
I've seen good reports about Clipper Creek units.
Clipper Creek has a very good rep. Aerovironment seems to be generally pretty good too.

Do be careful about Clipper Creek's model numbers. The number refers to the supply circuit amperage and not the EVSE's output (e.g. LCS-25 is a 20 amp EVSE and requires a 25 amp minimum circuit.)
 
I like my AeronVironment dual voltage Turbo Cord. It's the smallest and lightest unit out there and it allows me to take it with me wherever I go. It is a 16 amp charger and costs $649.

Mike
 
If routing the 240 line from the panel to the charge station . For goodness sakes go big. The difference in cost between a 30 amp breaker vs. a 70amp breaker is about zilch. The difference between a run of 10/2 cable and 4/2 on a short run is neglegable .
Some day some people will regret pulling out the 30amp L2 and paying twice to install a 70 amp L2 for the next EV.
 
buickanddeere said:
If routing the 240 line from the panel to the charge station . For goodness sakes go big. The difference in cost between a 30 amp breaker vs. a 70amp breaker is about zilch. The difference between a run of 10/2 cable and 4/2 on a short run is neglegable .
Some day some people will regret pulling out the 30amp L2 and paying twice to install a 70 amp L2 for the next EV.

I helped an electrician install a 100 amp sub-panel in my garage, and I asked him to get larger conduit than necessary, so if even larger wires ever needed to be run, all they would need to do is pull them through the existing conduit. When you get to 2 AWG wire, it gets pretty expensive, but the conduit is cheap. Digging under roots and a sidewalk, though... you never want to repeat that! :)

I'm finishing a run for a new charging setup, and ran 4 AWG wire from the sub-panel. With that sort of capacity, and with charging every night, a car would need to drive 150-200 miles per day to use it to its fullest capacity. Realistically, I don't think that will ever happen.
 
SteveC5088 said:
Many Chevy Volt owners have reported their Voltec units failing within, or soon after, their warranty expires.

I have one, and it's been working ok now for 9 months. Only, the plug head broke apart where it plugs into the car. It was major work to tear it apart and repair it. Pictures: Voltec J1772 failure

I've seen good reports about Clipper Creek units. I am building a "Juice Box" from a kit from http://www.emotorwerks.com/

Thank you ALL,

Steve, i think this your option is the closest to what I want.
How much will your Juice Box cost you? I see they say something $149, but we know that's ain't happening :(
 
nmikmik: EMotorWerks' base price is now $179 for the Base kit, with NO cables. The minimum input cable is $40 (big 14-50 RV plug) You can get a dryer pigtail at OSH for way less that will carry all the juice a Spark can pull. The J1772 cable minimum adds $149. All but one on ebay are that or higher.

So for about $350 you can get the kit, $420 assembled. There is some minute circuit board soldering required with the kit, more so with premium kit. If I had it to do over, I'd get the base kit and maybe try to add the features of the premium (which might require some alterations) I like the readout display option of the premium kit, but the basic box seems way simpler to build and service.

You can check the build instructions here: JuiceBox Manual For the premium kit, see what they say about putting the cover on, while the monster wires are passed through the cover but connected to the other part. I am getting my own connector lugs from Platt.com as the connectors in the premium kit just don't satisfy me that they would be heavy enough for the big wiring required.

There is another build-it-yourself site, OpenEV, but the website is so confusing that I couldn't find my way around. Maybe it has improved.
 
SteveC5088 said:
nmikmik: EMotorWerks' base price is now $179 for the Base kit, with NO cables. The minimum input cable is $40 (big 14-50 RV plug) You can get a dryer pigtail at OSH for way less that will carry all the juice a Spark can pull. The J1772 cable minimum adds $149. All but one on ebay are that or higher.

So for about $350 you can get the kit, $420 assembled. There is some minute circuit board soldering required with the kit, more so with premium kit. If I had it to do over, I'd get the base kit and maybe try to add the features of the premium (which might require some alterations) I like the readout display option of the premium kit, but the basic box seems way simpler to build and service.

You can check the build instructions here: JuiceBox Manual For the premium kit, see what they say about putting the cover on, while the monster wires are passed through the cover but connected to the other part. I am getting my own connector lugs from Platt.com as the connectors in the premium kit just don't satisfy me that they would be heavy enough for the big wiring required.

There is another build-it-yourself site, openevse, but the website is so confusing that I couldn't find my way around.

Thank you for the important info Steve!

I just placed the order for my Voltec, so now I can patiently explore other options. That $350 sounds like a winner.
btw, how do you manage to charge both cars?
 
> btw, how do you manage to charge both cars?

The Volt charges on the 240 volt Voltec unit hardwired to the sub-panel.

The Spark EV charges using the 120 volt unit that came with the car. For a month or so, I used a 12 AWG extension cord across the garage, which got pretty warm in its wind-up coil at 12 amps, but it worked fine. I have since run a wire in a custom-built channel across the garage ceiling with 10 AWG Romex wire, so no more warm wiring. Once I complete the JuiceBox, it will charge the Spark.
 
TonyWilliams said:
buickanddeere said:
If routing the 240 line from the panel to the charge station . For goodness sakes go big. The difference in cost between a 30 amp breaker vs. a 70amp breaker is about zilch. The difference between a run of 10/2 cable and 4/2 on a short run is neglegable .
Some day some people will regret pulling out the 30amp L2 and paying twice to install a 70 amp L2 for the next EV.

I absolutely agree. I use the JESLA portable 40 amp that can plug into almost anything:


............................................VOLTS / AMPS.......kW
NEMA 5-15R .......Standard Outlet.. 120 V / 12 A...... 1.4 kW, 120X8amp= 960W
NEMA 5-20R ...... Motel air conditioner 120/16A....... 1.9 kW. I don't have the number handy for a T-slot.

NEMA 10-30......Older Dryers...... 240 V / 24 A...... 5.8 kW. iirc those show up in the US. Three prongs for 120/240, neutral and ground. Those old dryer and stove plugs are a hazard as neutral and ground are as different as the hot and cold taps in your house.Lots of shocks and tingle voltage from those nasty things.

NEMA 14-30R......Newer Dryers..... 240 V / 24 A...... 5.8 kW
NEMA 6-50R .......Welding Equip.... 240 V / 40 A...... 9.6 kW
NEMA 15-15R,15-30R and 15-50R......RVs...... . Twist locks would be L5-15R,L5-30R and L5-50R.

Technically a plug and receptacle is supposed to be loaded to 80% of max rated.

15A, 30A and 50A camping receptacle are 120V, not 240V. I've only seen a 120/240 camper receptacle at a KOA camp once in my life for monster motor homes.
 
^^^
Typically (except for the GM 8/12 amp behavior), other PHEVs/EVs allow for 12 amps @ 120 volts on NEMA 5-15, since it's 12 amps on a 15 amp circuit. The Leaf doesn't even let you select. With its stock L1 EVSE, it's 12 amps @ 120 volts, period.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:NEMA_simplified_pins.svg has pictures.

I've never used an RV park as I have no EVSE that can handle 208/240 volts, but I believe the RV parks he found at http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=198034 supply 240 volts.
 
cwerdna said:
^^^
Typically (except for the GM 8/12 amp behavior), other PHEVs/EVs allow for 12 amps @ 120 volts on NEMA 5-15, since it's 12 amps on a 15 amp circuit. The Leaf doesn't even let you select. With its stock L1 EVSE, it's 12 amps @ 120 volts, period.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:NEMA_simplified_pins.svg has pictures.

I've never used an RV park as I have no EVSE that can handle 208/240 volts, but I believe the RV parks he found at http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=198034 supply 240 volts.


I'm not sure where the "RV park 208/240V " is coming from in North America?

Exceptionally rare to see anything besides the the 15amp 120V u-ground straight blade receptacle and the 30amp 120V twist lock receptacles. In any North American RV or trailer park.
A four pin 120/240 single phase and 120/208 single phase rarely exists in a typical RV park or camp ground. I've seen high end RV parks like KOA with one or two of the four pin multi volt receptacles.
I wouldn't hit a camp ground expecting L2 charging.
 
buickanddeere said:
Exceptionally rare to see anything besides the the 15amp 120V u-ground straight blade receptacle and the 30amp 120V twist lock receptacles. In any North American RV or trailer park.
A four pin 120/240 single phase and 120/208 single phase rarely exists in a typical RV park or camp ground. I've seen high end RV parks like KOA with one or two of the four pin multi volt receptacles.
I wouldn't hit a camp ground expecting L2 charging.
I have seen quite a few references to 50 amp, 240 volt plugs and outlets. Those bus-sized RVs will have them, and they use them to power air conditioning and heating systems.

They may be uncommon in your part of the country, but any camper area here where it gets hot would need to have a few sites with them to accommodate the big RVs. Just Google: RV 240 volt plug

Here's a NEMA 14-50 (240 volt 50 amp) receptacle. I have one ready to install in my garage.
N%2014-50R%20125-250-volt.jpg
 
buickanddeere said:
cwerdna said:
^^^
Typically (except for the GM 8/12 amp behavior), other PHEVs/EVs allow for 12 amps @ 120 volts on NEMA 5-15, since it's 12 amps on a 15 amp circuit. The Leaf doesn't even let you select. With its stock L1 EVSE, it's 12 amps @ 120 volts, period.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:NEMA_simplified_pins.svg has pictures.

I've never used an RV park as I have no EVSE that can handle 208/240 volts, but I believe the RV parks he found at http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=198034 supply 240 volts.


I'm not sure where the "RV park 208/240V " is coming from in North America?

Exceptionally rare to see anything besides the the 15amp 120V u-ground straight blade receptacle and the 30amp 120V twist lock receptacles. In any North American RV or trailer park.
A four pin 120/240 single phase and 120/208 single phase rarely exists in a typical RV park or camp ground. I've seen high end RV parks like KOA with one or two of the four pin multi volt receptacles.
I wouldn't hit a camp ground expecting L2 charging.
Bizarre, I could've sworn there was a Tony Williams response that got deleted... Maybe there was a server problem and it got wiped. I noticed a post (that I reposted at http://www.mychevysparkev.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=3753&p=7535#p7535) got wiped too. Mine surely didn't violate any rules here nor did Tony's response about using RV parks w/his Rav4 EV and former Leaf to charge @ 240 volts.
 
I use the Clipper Creek LCS 25, and use a NEMA 10-30 adapter to plug into an old dryer outlet. I live in the desert, so most RV parks aroud here have NEMA 14-50 outlets available. I'm really glad I went with the portable level 2 EVSE; I have more level two charging options and didn't need to bother with costly installations.
 
TonyWilliams said:
cwerdna said:
Bizarre, I could've sworn there was a Tony Williams response that got deleted... Maybe there was a server problem and it got wiped. I noticed a post (that I reposted at http://www.mychevysparkev.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=3753&p=7535#p7535) got wiped too. Mine surely didn't violate any rules here nor did Tony's response about using RV parks w/his Rav4 EV and former Leaf to charge @ 240 volts.

I suspect that it's the same old BS on this forum where the moderator just arbitrarily deletes posts that just happen to be posted by me.

I have no idea what happened. But if they had a computer problem, they might have needed to restore from a previous day's backup, so everything posted after the backup would disappear.

Like I said, though, I have no idea what actually happened.
 
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