6.6kW charging

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PPL

Member
Joined
Oct 20, 2014
Messages
20
From reading the technical disclosures from Chevy on their upcoming 2016 Volt, it looks like Chevy is committed to keeping 3.3kW charging in all their EVs. They are fixed on the view that for overnight charging, there is little benefit for faster charging.

For the Volt which has RE motor, I probably agree. However, I think Spark EV really should have a 6.6kW charging instead of 3.3kW. W/o DC charging widely available, I find that using Level 2 EVSE at 3.3kW to be hard to justify when I need a very fast recharge. The keyword being fast; 7 hrs. on Level 2 is faster than Level 1 but not against 4 hrs. on Level 2.

Just for my own edification, can someone point me to so information on what/how a 6.6kW charger differs from a 3.3kW charger? Is there any possibility for an after-market upgrade of the on-board 3.3kW charger to a 6.6kW charger?

There were some discussions on the Leaf forum for upgrading the early Leafs chargers but I could not find a definitive answer on what it takes or if it is possible.

Thanks.
 
Guys on the LEAF forum mounted a Brusa 3kW charger under the hood (we actually built a mounting plate in my garage for that).

You could certainly do the same. You'll need to learn the pertinent CAN bus messages that control charging, and be knowledgeable about DEADLY high voltage.
 
PPL said:
From reading the technical disclosures from Chevy on their upcoming 2016 Volt, it looks like Chevy is committed to keeping 3.3kW charging in all their EVs. They are fixed on the view that for overnight charging, there is little benefit for faster charging.

For the Volt which has RE motor, I probably agree. However, I think Spark EV really should have a 6.6kW charging instead of 3.3kW. W/o DC charging widely available, I find that using Level 2 EVSE at 3.3kW to be hard to justify when I need a very fast recharge. The keyword being fast; 7 hrs. on Level 2 is faster than Level 1 but not against 4 hrs. on Level 2.
That is really disappointing to hear, even w/the Volt. It really helps to have a higher wattage OBC so that one can pick up more charge within a given amount of time when opportunity charging as well as allowing for quicker turnover of spots (e.g. workplace charging). We have a number of Volts at my work but only 2 or 3 Spark EVs.

I've started sessions for plenty of Volts at my work on our L2 208 Volt Chargepoint EVSEs. They only pull ~3.1 kW from the wall vs. 5.7 to 6.0 kW of my '13 Leaf and ~6.2 kW for the Tesla Model S cars at work. Just recently, my work installed 4 Tesla HPWCs (http://shop.teslamotors.com/products/high-power-wall-connector). I've not confirmed whether they're each on a 100 amp circuit. If so, that'd allow for 80 amp charging, which would be ~16.64 kW @ 208 volts.
 
I know that GM clearly indicated that for the Volt they see no need for QC, and I guess I understand that position. However, for Volt(and ESPECIALLY)for the Spark EV, the 6.6 OBC would be the preferred way to go. After driving a BEV that had 3.3 OBC, and no QC, I quickly learned that it limited my opportunity to use the car as often as I would have liked. If you live in an area where there is little to no QC available, having the ability to add 20 miles in an hour via Level II softens the sting a bit. In my case, I'd take the car to work, with a round trip of 32 miles and come home with a little more than half of a battery(maybe 35-40 miles available---and much less in winter). That was actually fine, until I needed to go somewhere that was 10-15 miles away, and did not have time to charge the car up for several hours at a Level II facility(I used 120V trickle charge at home). Made no sense to drive to a Nissan dealer and sit there for an hour to add only 10 miles additional range. Honestly, I don't know why(other than costs)any manufacturer would release a BEV with less than 6.6 OBC.
Lou
 
For a company like GM who claims they track detailed User profiles due to OnStar, I can't understand this 3.3kW charging view. GM always seems to make some strange decisions with Volt/ELR and Spark EV. All 3 forces the owners into some compromises.

As for added cost between 3.3kW vs 6.6kW, I would expect higher cost but at least make that available as an option like the DC FC. Nissan does that on their lowest cost Leaf. I took the DC FC option but the odds of finding SAE combo chargers are not good.

Considering how efficiently the ReGen works in adding backs miles, I wonder why no one has created a electric motor driven DC recharge system. Even if it takes a 240v motor and a few hours to charge, it might be better than trickle charge at Level 1.
 
Just a wish due to lack of SAE DC charging stations. I got the Spark EV with the optional DC FC and have not been able to find any public chargers that support SAE.

I am sure you noticed that ReGen mode in any EV is quite efficient at adding more miles back. Very noticeable in a long downhill runs. This is due to the ReGen mode using the drive motor as DC generator to directly charge the battery.

Just wondered if it is feasible to get a similar DC electric generator that is geared to an 240V electric motor and use it to charge via the SAE DC charging terminals. Probably too noisy even if it is feasible.
 
buickanddeere said:
I don't see how a 6.6Kw charger is a whole lot more $$$ to install in a Volt or Spark than a 3.3Kw.
NEVER underestimate the bean counters at GM. :!:
 
PPL said:
Just a wish due to lack of SAE DC charging stations. I got the Spark EV with the optional DC FC and have not been able to find any public chargers that support SAE.

I am sure you noticed that ReGen mode in any EV is quite efficient at adding more miles back. Very noticeable in a long downhill runs. This is due to the ReGen mode using the drive motor as DC generator to directly charge the battery.

Just wondered if it is feasible to get a similar DC electric generator that is geared to an 240V electric motor and use it to charge via the SAE DC charging terminals. Probably too noisy even if it is feasible.

What you are talking about was common in the past and was called a motor-generator. Most often used to step-up or step-down from one DC voltage to another. You just don't see them anymore as they are expensive, noisy, and inefficient. You would also have to communicate with the car but that shouldn't be too difficult perhaps on the order of making a Chademo to SAE Combo converter ;)

Without a lot of work and a lot of money we're stuck at 3.3kw.
 
buickanddeere said:
buickanddeere said:
I don't see how a 6.6Kw charger is a whole lot more $$$ to install in a Volt or Spark than a 3.3Kw.

Please explain your last paragraph with the 240 charging generator.

Actually the traction motor generates AC when in down hill regen mode.the inverter/converter electronic drive power modual rectumfies the AC from the motor/generator's stator windings into DC .
 
I wanted to renew this topic.
As Chevy Spark EV and Chevy Bolt has a lot in common and Bolt has 7.2 kW on board charger. So I got an idea if it would be possible to put in Spark EV charging socket and charger from Bolt. Would it work?
 
I am looking into this already.

It is not plug and play. The wires from the onboard charger to the battery modules needs to be upgraded and the firmware hacked.

I'm going to install a 10kW Tesla model S onboard charger instead as is widely available and have been successful controlled already.

Stay tuned
 
JPL said:
I'm going to install a 10kW Tesla model S onboard charger instead
What about getting the TMS system to play along?
You don't want to charge at 10kW in the summer without cooling, correct?
 
NORTON said:
JPL said:
I'm going to install a 10kW Tesla model S onboard charger instead
What about getting the TMS system to play along?
You don't want to charge at 10kW in the summer without cooling, correct?

You can leave the factory charger in place to control the cooling system.
 
Dominic49 said:
NORTON said:
JPL said:
I'm going to install a 10kW Tesla model S onboard charger instead
What about getting the TMS system to play along?
You don't want to charge at 10kW in the summer without cooling, correct?

You can leave the factory charger in place to control the cooling system.
But wouldn't the Onboard Charge have to be active for it to call for the TMS to run?
TMS is only active when plugged in or powered up.

It's a complicated subject and all the hackers would be teaching themselves....

A Fiat 500e comes with 6.6kW charging, I believe. Wouldn't it be easier to just buy one of those if a higher charge rate is important to you?
Or a Leaf?

Most newer EV's will have that rate stock. I'm biding my time for a newer EV. I want high tech 'driver assist' features! Like Cadillac's Super Cruise.
 
Hertz said:
Chevy Spark EV and Chevy Bolt has a lot in common

Do they?? I was unaware they shared ANY parts. From what I gather the two are totally unrelated except that I'm sure Chevy's R&D used information gained from their Spark EV and Volt to create the Bolt. I don't believe there are any shared parts......
 
There is a somewhat portable DC quick charger that charges at around 10kW. Weighs about 40 lbs and can fit in the trunk of the Spark EV. You can't keep it in the trunk when in use though as it needs ventilation. It's basically an AC to DC converter with smart features.

You can get it with a CHAdeMO or CCS Combo plug or a higher model with interchangeable plugs to use both.
The input is J1772 female connector so you can connect to regular Level 2 charging stations. Or can get a NEMA 14-50 adapter and charge at RV parks.

https://www.evseadapters.com/products/portable-chademo-ccs-combo-dc-quick-charger/

This is a US reseller but I have been in contact with the manufacturer which I will remain nameless.

Some Spark EV users have already been using it in the USA. I've never seen one here in Canada.

But the only problem I see at the moment is it's only CE certified (like many aftermarket EVSE) - which is a self-certification mark.
It does not have UL, ETL, or TUV electrical certifications which are usually required for North America.

Level 1 and 2 EVSE with CE mark only might not be too much of an issue as most of the communication and limitations is done by the car's BMU but I'm a little bit skeptical Level 3 charger without recognized electrical certifications.
 
It has taken years but the CCS Fast Charging is very good on the SPARK EV and Bolt Electrics from GM.
The L2 on the Spark EV is still just 3.3 kW but is not bad.

I just ordered a SETEC 10 kW CCS portable Fast Charger. I will try it on the many free public J-1772 ports in the Phoenix AZ Area. I also have an adapter to use the Tesla Destination chargers many go to 8 or 10 kW. My Spark EV is a 2016 so 4 years old and has 26K miles. I can still go 110 miles on a Charge by driving like I care. It was only rated at 82 miles on a charge by the Government Testing EPA. Not bad.
 
jstack6 said:
It has taken years but the CCS Fast Charging is very good on the SPARK EV and Bolt Electrics from GM.
The L2 on the Spark EV is still just 3.3 kW but is not bad.

I just ordered a SETEC 10 kW CCS portable Fast Charger. I will try it on the many free public J-1772 ports in the Phoenix AZ Area. I also have an adapter to use the Tesla Destination chargers many go to 8 or 10 kW. My Spark EV is a 2016 so 4 years old and has 26K miles. I can still go 110 miles on a Charge by driving like I care. It was only rated at 82 miles on a charge by the Government Testing EPA. Not bad.

I would be interested in hearing how the SETEC unit works out for you. I have not heard a first-hand report of it yet.

I hope that you get the U.S. version of the CCS plug! (CCS Combo 1 connector) The "Type 2" connector is different, and is the one used in Europe.
 
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