Spark EV vs Leaf

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sunny

Member
Joined
Dec 8, 2013
Messages
9
Location
Seguin Tx
Im curious about 2 things on the Spark EV...one is the drive battery pack cooled by a cooling system and what type of heating system does it have for the cabin. Is the Spark EV better for hot climates...I live in central Texas... :cool:
 
The Spark, with it's liquid cooled battery if probably a better fit for Texas. Unfortunately you have one big problem, they're not for sale there. You would have to buy out of state, ship it in yourself, and hope that your local dealer would touch it if something went wrong. IMNSHO nationwide distribution will never occur with the Spark EV.
 
Ive been looking to buying used....and yes I know they dont sell here but about a month ago one was at a dealer in Dallas.
 
You could DRIVE to Cali in about 24 hours or less, and tow it back to TX behind a Pickup truck :)

You could rent one of those flat dolly thingies from Uhaul or somewhere (all 4 wheel off the ground tho).
 
tigger19687 said:
You could DRIVE to Cali in about 24 hours or less, and tow it back to TX behind a Pickup truck :)

You could rent one of those flat dolly thingies from Uhaul or somewhere (all 4 wheel off the ground tho).

That's what I did when I found the Spark EV I wanted -- 200 miles away in SoCal. I rented the dual-axle trailer from U-Haul and towed it behind my Moose (Suburban). It was cheaper than paying for delivery. I think you could tow the Spark EV on a front-only dolly, since back wheels just roll along.
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After looking at the back of that Spark, I don't think it would be wise to tow with just 2 wheels up. hit a bump and you may just lose the back bumper :)
 
tigger19687 said:
After looking at the back of that Spark, I don't think it would be wise to tow with just 2 wheels up. hit a bump and you may just lose the back bumper :)

Hmmm... in my mind, the overhang on the back end is minimal, compared to many cars. I can't imagine a 2-wheel dolly would pose a problem.
 
I know you didn't specifically ask for a head-to-head comparison, but I've had both and like the Spark EV better. It's far more nimble and responsive. On the other hand, the Spark "feels" cheaper (probably because it is) although it's very well made. It is a much smaller car too. So if you want something that's larger and feels more polished - get the LEAF. If you want something with better range, better battery and more fun to drive, get the Spark EV.
 
sunny said:
Is the heater a resistor type or heat pump....

The heater is resistive. Not sure why it matters if you're in Texas since you'll barely use the heater, but now you know! I've found the Spark's pre-heating system to work fantastic, as you can set it to any temperature (unlike the Leaf, for example) so you can crank it up to get the car (and seats) nice and toasty before unplugging it, then you barely need a heater during normal driving.

The battery pack is cooled with the air conditioning pump. In the testing that I've done, the Spark EV has the best pack and cooling system for high temperatures on the market. The 2014 with A123 battery is likely even better than the 2015 LG pack when it comes to performance at high temps, but time will tell with that one and it's tough to say for sure since the 2015 has more conservative tuning and will muddy the results a bit.

Bryce
 
Even so that Im in Central Texas, I can get by without A/C if its a must but I can't do without heat when the temps drop....Ive read and heard on the Leaf how the resistive heat really affects range considering I live in Central Texas with no infrastructure I was recommended not to get a Leaf with it....
 
On the 2014 model, would it be hard to find a used one with a quick charge port and what is the regen braking like on the Spark....
 
sunny said:
Even so that Im in Central Texas, I can get by without A/C if its a must but I can't do without heat when the temps drop....Ive read and heard on the Leaf how the resistive heat really affects range considering I live in Central Texas with no infrastructure I was recommended not to get a Leaf with it....

My Spark EV has significantly better range in the cold compared to my 2012 Leaf (with resistive heat). I suspect that is because I can preheat the car to a higher set temperature, as I mentioned, and a more efficient battery at lower temps. The Spark EV battery heater will probably not be used in Texas, as I don't think it comes on until below freezing (25ish?).

I agree that a heat pump is better for your temperatures. However, in practice, I believe the Spark EV with resistive heat and Leaf with heat pump will have very similar range if that is your primary concern. Without the heater impacts, the Spark EV has shown to have much better range in real world use. In reality, your driving habits will have FAR more effect on the range than the heater technology implemented.

Bryce
 
sunny said:
Even so that Im in Central Texas, I can get by without A/C if its a must but I can't do without heat when the temps drop....Ive read and heard on the Leaf how the resistive heat really affects range considering I live in Central Texas with no infrastructure I was recommended not to get a Leaf with it....
Can you update your location info via User Control Panel (near top) > Profile (left side)? That way, we don't need to ask in future posts/threads or do sleuthing to deduce it.

What are your daily driving needs in terms of miles? How much city vs. highway? Will you have the ability to charge at your work/destinations?

If range is important, I wouldn't get a Leaf w/the crappy resistive-only heater, as you'll have some temporary range loss in winter besides needing power to heat the cabin. You'd want a '13+ Leaf SV or SL. Those have the hybrid heater w/heat pump. Also '13+ Leaf SV and SL, along w/'13+ S with "charge package" come w/6 kW on-board charger, for faster L2 charging, assuming the EVSE is capable of over 16 amps.

I would not recommend someone buy a Leaf in hot climates due to rapid degradation, unless your range needs are very modest. We've seen horrible capacity losses with '11 and '12 Leafs in Phoenix and similar results w/some folks in TX.

The '15 Leafs have the "lizard battery" (http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=17168) that should do better, but Nissan never gave us any data on any of the batteries, old or lizard, so we have no idea. We probably won't know until the 2nd summer has passed for '15 Leafs on Phoenix.

About the worst case that we know of in terms of rapid loss was within 21 months, there were some Phoenician '11 Leafs that lost 3 capacity bars, and 1 that lost 4: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=228326.

I believe the highest # of Leaf capacity bars lost known (that we know of) w/a car still in use is this guy's: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=18244 w/5 capacity bars gone.

Without knowing your situation... I'd almost wager it'd be better to lease a Leaf and let Nissan worry about what to do w/a car w/degraded battery.

sunny said:
On the 2014 model, would it be hard to find a used one with a quick charge port
I hope you realize that Plugshare currently shows 0 SAE Combo (Spark EV uses Combo1 version of the port) DC FCs in Texas. Looks like the closest ones to you are in AZ, CO and GA.

(FWIW, I have a '13 Leaf SV. I see there's been a poster w/the handle sunny over at MNL, so I'm assuming that's probably you. I haven't reviewed your posts there yet...)
 
Yes I'm on a few forums, I've been researching on EV's for over a year...watching on several brands, models etc..My commute to work is 15 miles one way so about 30 to 40 miles a day. I've been working with a guy at work thats in charge of submitting new projects, working on charge stations but the company has to approve it which may be a year away. As for fast chargers, There's one CHADeMO station at a NIssan dealership in Austin and a Tesla Supercharger in San Marcos....Since BMW uses the same CCS fast chargers im wondering if or what they may do here in Central Texas...Mainly right now still watching and researching but really interested in the Spark because of the drivetrain...BMW is suppose to announce early next year there plans on CCS chargers from what I heard....
 
Most of my driving is running at 50 to 60 miles per hour....back roads. Forgot to mention that. San Antonio is about 50 miles and Austin is about 60 miles which don't go to either much..
 
sunny said:
As for fast chargers, There's one CHADeMO station at a NIssan dealership in Austin and a Tesla Supercharger in San Marcos....

Since BMW uses the same CCS fast chargers im wondering if or what they may do here in Central Texas...Mainly right now still watching and researching but really interested in the Spark because of the drivetrain...BMW is suppose to announce early next year there plans on CCS chargers from what I heard....
The Supercharger will do you no good unless you have a Model S (and presumably future Teslas) w/paid for Supercharger access. The CHAdeMO DC FC will do you no good w/a US i3 or Spark EV.

Yep, BMW has chosen CCS for the US. Just because someone installs them doesn't mean you'll be able to charge at them, at a reasonable price, at the hours you want or that they'll stay working.

If you go to http://www.plugshare.com/ and only leave CHAdeMO DCFC checked under Outlets then go to say Santa Clara, CA and zoom out a bit to look at the Bay Area, you'll see numerous CHAdeMO DC FCs. Unfortunately, you'll find many are broken and most are no longer free. Dealer ones are almost always only accessible during dealer hours. And, if it's free, there might be a line. (e.g. When Boardwalk Nissan in Redwood City was free to DC FC, someone I know posted on Facebook that she was DC FCing and there are 5 Leafs in line behind her!)

When many Nissan dealers had free DC FCs, the policy was VERY YMMV as to whether they'd let random Leafs charge there, if the car wasn't bought/leased from that dealer. Now some folks are grumbling because many have gone non-free, even for those who bought/leased from there.

If BMW installs their CCS DC FCs at one of their dealers, what do you think their policy might be if another brand's EV comes along, esp. if it's not a luxury brand?

Most of the DC FCs that aren't free now in the Bay Area (including some dealer ones, see http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=15867), are either under:
- http://www.nrgevgo.com/san-francisco-bay-area/
- http://www.blinknetwork.com/blinkMap.html - put in 95051 zip code and select DC Fast Charge under Layers

Both are quite pricey: see 1st URL, while Blink is $0.59/kWh for Blink Plus members!

If I only got 40 mpg on my Prius (my other car) and paid $4/gal, that's 10 cents/mile. If I achieve 4 miles/kWh on my Leaf and pay $0.59/kWh, that's 14.75 cents/mile. And, that's for the "privilege" of waiting and dealing w/an adventure if the DC FC is broken or ICEd.
 
Ive read that possibly BMW will have there CCS stations setup at dealerships where anybody will be able to use them at anytime not just business hours...
 
sunny said:
Ive read that possibly BMW will have there CCS stations setup at dealerships where anybody will be able to use them at anytime not just business hours...
Source? They keyword is possibly. Are there any w/that arrangement now?
 
I was looking at used Spark EV's this morning and saw some in Georgia and Oklahoma.....so getting a used one should not be hard just wondering how hard it would be to find one equipped with CCS plug....
 
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