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 Post subject: 120v Charger Warriors!
PostPosted: Tue Dec 22, 2015 5:39 pm 
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Joined: Tue Dec 22, 2015 5:35 pm
Posts: 6
How many miles do you get per hour plugged into a regular outlet?

I hear anywhere from 3 to 6 miles. And what determines how much you get? The circuit breaker? The quality of your electrical lines? The Spark EV's internal charger? How does this all compare to other EVs charging from the wall plug?

Please state your miles per hour charge! :)


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 Post subject: Re: 120v Charger Warriors!
PostPosted: Tue Dec 22, 2015 7:03 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jul 27, 2013 9:52 am
Posts: 125
Location: Los Gatos
DSpark wrote:
How many miles do you get per hour plugged into a regular outlet?

I hear anywhere from 3 to 6 miles. And what determines how much you get? The circuit breaker? The quality of your electrical lines? The Spark EV's internal charger? How does this all compare to other EVs charging from the wall plug?

Please state your miles per hour charge! :)


The big variables are how you drive and the weather. It does not depend much upon the house wiring or even the Spark charger (apart from its default setting).

The EVSE (the charging unit you plug into the wall) tells the Spark the maximum current it can charge at, although the Spark doesn't have to use all that.

One annoyance is that the Spark defaults to charging at 8 Amps, with an option on the charging screen to charge at 12Amps, but you have to set it each time you charge. I normally do it while I'm driving home.

The power that is delivered to the car also depends upon the voltage so if the house wiring or an extension cord causes a voltage drop the delivered to be lower so try to avoid using a long extension cord.

Virtually all EVs charge at 12Amps from a 120V outlet except that the Tesla seems to push it to about 14A.

8 Amps results in about 1kW charging or ~1.4kW at 12Amps.

Because of losses the battery will only charge at about 750W or 1.1kW respectively.

The miles/hour you get when charging depend upon the efficiency of the car - the Spark is one of the most efficient and so actually gets more charge per hour than most others when charging from 120V. However if you drive aggressively the miles/kWh you get will be lower and so you will not charge as many miles per hour.

The Spark is not as good as most other cars when charging from 240V (level 2) - there the 3.3kW on board charger is a limitation, most other cars these days have a 6.6kW charger or even more.

I usually get about 5 miles of range per hour of charging when using 12Amps at 120V. A Leaf would probably get a bit less and a Tesla a bit less still (even with its higher charge rate). My normal energy consumption is ~5.7miles/kWh as indicated on the dash display. It's bit lower in the winter and higher in the spring/fall.

kevin


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 Post subject: Re: 120v Charger Warriors!
PostPosted: Tue Dec 22, 2015 7:55 pm 
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Joined: Tue Dec 22, 2015 5:35 pm
Posts: 6
Sounds good! Looks like you get 5 miles per hour through the standard wall plug. If we can get more people to respond it would be interesting to see if others are getting the same number or if it's higher or lower than 5 miles per charge. Keep the answers coming! :)


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 Post subject: Re: 120v Charger Warriors!
PostPosted: Wed Dec 23, 2015 7:13 am 
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Joined: Fri May 01, 2015 5:52 am
Posts: 922
Location: KC,MO
My stock 120V L1 EVSE has not been touched since I bought the car. (I should test it....)
Once you have an inexpensive 15A 240V L2 EVSE, L1's seem silly.
I think of it as an emergency backup.

_________________
Used '14 2LT w/ DCFC.
In the middle of the country.
Far from any of its sibs.


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 Post subject: Re: 120v Charger Warriors!
PostPosted: Wed Dec 23, 2015 7:52 am 
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Joined: Tue Dec 22, 2015 5:35 pm
Posts: 6
NORTON wrote:
My stock 120V L1 EVSE has not been touched since I bought the car. (I should test it....)
Once you have an inexpensive 15A 240V L2 EVSE, L1's seem silly.
I think of it as an emergency backup.


Thanks for your, um, non-reply! :(

I'm trying to get numbers from people whom actually use it, thanks.


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 Post subject: Re: 120v Charger Warriors!
PostPosted: Wed Dec 23, 2015 8:48 am 
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Joined: Sun Apr 26, 2015 3:27 pm
Posts: 566
Location: Portland, Oregon
You've got the only answer that makes sense: you get X kWh from 8 amps, 12 amps, and 220 volts. Nothing is going to change there.


How many miles you get from a kWh of driving is a separate topic and highly subjective. And it's been answered: it depends on how you drive, along with factors such as tire pressure, which tires you have, the weather, traffic flow, sunspots. There's a range from say 3.5 to 5.5 miles kWh. As the saying goes, your milage may vary.

_________________
2015 Spark EV 1LT DCFC
BF Goodrich g-Force Super Sport A/S
ClipperCreek EVSE


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 Post subject: Re: 120v Charger Warriors!
PostPosted: Wed Dec 23, 2015 9:56 am 
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Joined: Fri May 01, 2015 5:52 am
Posts: 922
Location: KC,MO
nikwax wrote:
..you get X kWh from 8 amps, 12 amps, and 220 volts. Nothing is going to change there.
....How many miles you get from a kWh of driving is a separate topic and highly subjective. ...


This is the answer above. There is no hard set 'MPH of Charging'. It depends on how you use the car.

The battery display is a two part affair. The cylindrical, segmented battery SOC (state of charge) and the miles display GOM (guess-o-meter).
They are somewhat independent. The GOM does not know how you will be using the car today. Its number comes from previous driving/charge cycles.
If you load the car to the max and head up the mountains at 75 MPH with the heat blasting you will be lucky to get half of the GOM miles.

I'm just saying, if you are only leasing and think you can get by with L1 charging, fine.
But if you really want to enjoy EV life you'll want an L2 around the house.

_________________
Used '14 2LT w/ DCFC.
In the middle of the country.
Far from any of its sibs.


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 Post subject: Re: 120v Charger Warriors!
PostPosted: Wed Dec 23, 2015 11:08 am 
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Joined: Sat Jul 27, 2013 9:52 am
Posts: 125
Location: Los Gatos
DSpark wrote:
NORTON wrote:
My stock 120V L1 EVSE has not been touched since I bought the car. (I should test it....)
Once you have an inexpensive 15A 240V L2 EVSE, L1's seem silly.
I think of it as an emergency backup.


Thanks for your, um, non-reply! :(

I'm trying to get numbers from people whom actually use it, thanks.


As others have commented, the charging part will vary little from user to user. The variability comes from estimating how the energy will be used.

For example if you were filling up a gasoline car at 1 gallon per minute and you got 40mpg - you would get 40 miles of range per minute of filling. If however you are an aggressive driver and only get 25mpg you will only get 25 miles of range per minute.

It is similar on the Spark. If you are charging at 12Amps on 120V it will take ~17 hours to fill, that 17 hours could be 100 miles for the gentle driver or only 70 for the aggressive one.

kevin


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 Post subject: Re: 120v Charger Warriors!
PostPosted: Wed Dec 23, 2015 11:30 am 
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Joined: Tue Dec 22, 2015 5:35 pm
Posts: 6
Gotcha, I understand everyone's answers. I guess I didn't explain my question correctly so here it is:

Example: You drive home and your GOM shows 20 miles remaining before you shut off the motor. You plug in the 120V for 6 hours. When you start the car again, the GOM shows 50 miles, meaning in that 6 hours you gained 30 miles (5 miles an hour times 6 hours) from the wall.

So in this scenario you're gaining 5 miles per hour. I understand at that point, if you drive like a maniac you won't be getting that the numbers the GOM expects or vice versa. I'm just really interested in that number-per-hour when someone wakes up and start the car and how much they've accumulated per hour plugged into the wall. At work, if I plug the car in for 9 hours, it would be quite a difference getting 45 miles back (5 per hour) versus 36 miles (4 per hour).

Does that make more sense?


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 Post subject: Re: 120v Charger Warriors!
PostPosted: Wed Dec 23, 2015 11:44 am 
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Joined: Sat Jul 27, 2013 9:52 am
Posts: 125
Location: Los Gatos
DSpark wrote:
Gotcha, I understand everyone's answers. I guess I didn't explain my question correctly so here it is:

Example: You drive home and your GOM shows 20 miles remaining before you shut off the motor. You plug in the 120V for 6 hours. When you start the car again, the GOM shows 50 miles, meaning in that 6 hours you gained 30 miles (5 miles an hour times 6 hours) from the wall.

So in this scenario you're gaining 5 miles per hour. I understand at that point, if you drive like a maniac you won't be getting that the numbers the GOM expects or vice versa. I'm just really interested in that number-per-hour when someone wakes up and start the car and how much they've accumulated per hour plugged into the wall. At work, if I plug the car in for 9 hours, it would be quite a difference getting 45 miles back (5 per hour) versus 36 miles (4 per hour).

Does that make more sense?


"if you drive like a maniac you won't be getting that the numbers the GOM expects or vice versa."

If you drive consistently then the GOM should adjust to your driving style - and so after charging would display something close to the expected range.

The GOM averages your recent driving history to determine the displayed number. I haven't seen that anyone has managed to determine precisely how long or what particular algorithm it uses. The range estimators on all cars (EV and gasoline) suffer from the problem that they can't see the future so if conditions change it will over or under estimate.

My commute to work loses about 500 feet in elevation while the trip back climbs the same amount, that confuses the estimator as I use about 1kWh less going to work than coming home and the range displayed is pessimistic in one direction and optimistic in the other.

kevin


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