MrDRMorgan
Posts: 947
Joined: Wed Oct 30, 2013 7:27 am
Location: Manteca, California

Re: Battery degredation

Sun Jul 22, 2018 3:10 pm

NORTON wrote:
MrDRMorgan wrote:.... This morning, when I powered up the 2016, the battery conditioning started right up. But, the 2014 did nothing when I powered it up. This leaves me wondering if the battery conditioning function in the 2014 is operating correctly. ....
This, and you saying the display never shows power used for battery conditioning, sounds like there is a problem...
Now what?
Good Question. Here is some data I took this afternoon after both cars were driven to the same destination, sat side-by-side out in the hot sun for four hours and were then driven home and tested. All data was taken using TorquePro and an OBDLink MX adapter.

2016 Spark EV
Battery Temp: 30 deg. C
Trans Temp: 44 deg. C
Battery Capacity: 16.7 kWh
SOC: 59.2%
Avg. Cell Voltage: 3.84 volts
Battery Conditioning Pump RPM:
AC off: 2100 RPM with car powered on
AC on: 4100 RPM with car and AC powered on

2014 Spark EV
Battery Temp: 31 deg. C
Trans Temp: 52 deg. C
Battery Capacity: 17.2 kWh
SOC: 61.6%
Avg. Cell Voltage: 3.29 volts
Battery Conditioning Pump RPM:
AC off: 0 RPM with car powered on
AC on: 2100 RPM with car and AC powered on

It appears to me that either there is a problem with the battery conditioning function in the 2014 or the turn-on temperature is set higher than the 2016. I guess it is possible too that this is how it is supposed to work. The battery heatsink in the 2014 is different than the 2015 / 2016 and this may be part of the explanation. At least I now know that the battery in the 2014 is being cooled whenever the cabin AC is turned on. My 2014 does not have the DCFC option so I do not have to consider battery heating caused by 40-50 kWh DCFC charging power.

One test I can run it to let the car set in my driveway all day on a very hot (100 deg. F), read the battery temp in the morning and early evening and compare the readings. With respect to the car overall, the car has been completely trouble-free and is performing exceptionally well; even in the current 100 deg. F heat!

CCIE
Posts: 174
Joined: Tue Nov 22, 2016 8:47 am
Location: CT

Re: Battery degredation

Mon Jul 23, 2018 7:29 am

The 2014 A123 battery uses a different chemistry than the 2015/16 LG-Chem battery. It's possible that it requires less cooling.
2018 Tesla M3 LR RWD
2015 Spark EV 2LT with DCFC (traded-in 8/2018)
2012 Volt

MrDRMorgan
Posts: 947
Joined: Wed Oct 30, 2013 7:27 am
Location: Manteca, California

Re: Battery degredation

Mon Jul 23, 2018 8:56 am

CCIE wrote:The 2014 A123 battery uses a different chemistry than the 2015/16 LG-Chem battery. It's possible that it requires less cooling.
Yes, I am aware of that. The 2014 has a large baseplate heat sink. The 2015 /2016 have a different design. So how they are cooled is probably different from the 2014.

I would like to know the cooling parameters for both systems but I probably will not find that information. However, I can measure the battery temperature and cooling pump RPM.

I have not had any problems with my 2014. I only have 14k miles on the ODO and my battery capacity has been stable at 17.2 kWh since I started measuring it using TorquePro and an OBDLink MX adapter. I can use that battery capacity value as a baseline against which to measure any future decline in capacity over time / mileage. I can do the same for my 2016.

TheLondonBroiler
Posts: 179
Joined: Tue Oct 31, 2017 6:25 am

Re: Battery degredation

Mon Jul 23, 2018 3:54 pm

I only accumulate battery conditioning on the energy details screen when I'm using AC and not moving (I spend a good bit of time in my Spark before work.... assuming I arrive early, which I generally do. We've had many 90°F+ days, but not over 100 in the Carolinas.

My trans temp according to Torque Pro, gets up to 140~150 generally, but when I turn my car off, it jumps to 180°F, outside temp goes to -40°F, and my phone warns me of icy conditions...... I think it's a glitch.
2015 Spark EV w/ DCFC 46,XXX miles
Purchased 1/20/18 w/ 16,5XX miles
2019 Bolt EV w/ DCFC 6,XXX miles
Purchased 3/16/19 w/ 87 miles

CSW
Posts: 180
Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2015 8:37 am
Location: Sacramento,CA

Re: Battery degredation

Mon Jul 23, 2018 7:28 pm

TheLondonBroiler wrote:I only accumulate battery conditioning on the energy details screen when I'm using AC and not moving (I spend a good bit of time in my Spark before work.... assuming I arrive early, which I generally do. We've had many 90°F+ days, but not over 100 in the Carolinas.

My trans temp according to Torque Pro, gets up to 140~150 generally, but when I turn my car off, it jumps to 180°F, outside temp goes to -40°F, and my phone warns me of icy conditions...... I think it's a glitch.
I too noticed the most batt conditioning showing used when I had the car sitting in the parking lot with the a/c running on a 100 degree day. That is when I used like 5-6% on my previous comments. Both numbers on a 2015 and 2016 spark. I don't remmeber exactly, but when I had my 2014 I would have done that as well and I never saw the car indicate using any batt conditiong ever.

MrDRMorgan
Posts: 947
Joined: Wed Oct 30, 2013 7:27 am
Location: Manteca, California

Re: Battery degredation

Mon Jul 23, 2018 7:55 pm

CSW wrote:
TheLondonBroiler wrote:I only accumulate battery conditioning on the energy details screen when I'm using AC and not moving (I spend a good bit of time in my Spark before work.... assuming I arrive early, which I generally do. We've had many 90°F+ days, but not over 100 in the Carolinas.

My trans temp according to Torque Pro, gets up to 140~150 generally, but when I turn my car off, it jumps to 180°F, outside temp goes to -40°F, and my phone warns me of icy conditions...... I think it's a glitch.
I too noticed the most batt conditioning showing used when I had the car sitting in the parking lot with the a/c running on a 100 degree day. That is when I used like 5-6% on my previous comments. Both numbers on a 2015 and 2016 spark. I don't remmeber exactly, but when I had my 2014 I would have done that as well and I never saw the car indicate using any batt conditiong ever.
I think you have confirmed my current belief regarding battery conditioning in the 2014 Spark EV. It IS different from that found in the 2015 and 2016 Spark EVs. The 2014 battery conditioning does not perform like that found in the 2015 and 2016 Spark EVs. I can live with that fact as long as it is working properly.

7/25: 103 deg. F at 5pm today. In this heat, my wife and I took a trip to Costco and, upon returning to our home, I put my 2014 Spark EV in the garage and decided to see if the battery conditioning would work. I set charging to immediate, L1 charging current to 12 amps and then connected my L1 EVSE to the car. Wala! The fan came on and I heard the AC pump start spinning up. It DOES WORK!!

CCIE
Posts: 174
Joined: Tue Nov 22, 2016 8:47 am
Location: CT

Re: Battery degredation

Thu Jul 26, 2018 3:23 pm

I just used GDS2 to see what HPCM2 reports for my battery capacity. Also included are the previous measures I’ve made with GDS2. Degradation seems fairly linear.

07-29-2017, 11000 miles, 18.5kwh
12-03-2017, 16700 miles, 18.1kwh
07-26-2018, 25800 miles, 17.5kwh
2018 Tesla M3 LR RWD
2015 Spark EV 2LT with DCFC (traded-in 8/2018)
2012 Volt

hufman
Posts: 1
Joined: Sat Jul 28, 2018 11:30 pm

Re: Battery degredation

Sat Jul 28, 2018 11:32 pm

What is the PID definition for the Chevy Spark EV Battery Capacity? I can't find it in the Volt PIDs spreadsheet, and the Bolt PIDs spreadsheet has a capacity PID that doesn't work for me.

MrDRMorgan
Posts: 947
Joined: Wed Oct 30, 2013 7:27 am
Location: Manteca, California

Re: Battery degredation

Sun Jul 29, 2018 6:48 am

hufman wrote:What is the PID definition for the Chevy Spark EV Battery Capacity? I can't find it in the Volt PIDs spreadsheet, and the Bolt PIDs spreadsheet has a capacity PID that doesn't work for me.
I am using the Bolt PID list and MS Excel CSV file provided by Sean Graham on the Chevy Bolt Forum. These files can also be found posted on this forum. I am using TorquePro on a Nexus 7 Android tablet and an OBDLink MX Bluetooth adapter. This combination has been tested on 2014, 2015 and 2016 Spark EVs and it worked for all three. The specific PID I am using for battery capacity is !Battery Capacity.

I hope this information helps you!

TheLondonBroiler
Posts: 179
Joined: Tue Oct 31, 2017 6:25 am

Re: Battery degredation

Sun Jul 29, 2018 3:35 pm

I also used the Bolt .csv file, that a user (beachbum) provided the link for, in this forum. I initially tried to be a cheap a$$, and use torque lite (free), but I couldn't load individual pids or the whole .csv file. Torque Pro is the first app I've ever purchased. It works well enough, an excellent value for $5. Battery capacity is only displayed to the tenth of a kwh (ex: 15.1 kwh) in a widget, however, when viewing the pid selector screen, it gives a value to a ten thousandth (edit: It's really a measure of about 1/30th of a kwh).

My battery, according to Torque, has gradually gone from 15.4kwh capacity to 15.1kwh, in just this month. I think between charging to 100% everyday, "full use of" acceleration, frequent fast charging, and hot temperatures, my Spark isn't being babied, while not being used in a manner that is outside the terms of the warranty.

I may have to press my employer a bit harder for a 110v outlet, so that I don't have daily range anxiety this winter (and likely degrade the battery worse in the process).

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2015 Spark EV w/ DCFC 46,XXX miles
Purchased 1/20/18 w/ 16,5XX miles
2019 Bolt EV w/ DCFC 6,XXX miles
Purchased 3/16/19 w/ 87 miles

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