MrDRMorgan
Posts: 947
Joined: Wed Oct 30, 2013 7:27 am
Location: Manteca, California

Re: Battery degredation

Sun Jul 29, 2018 6:39 pm

TheLondonBroiler wrote:I also used the Bolt .csv file, that a user (beachbum) provided the link for, in this forum. I initially tried to be a cheap a$$, and use torque lite (free), but I couldn't load individual pids or the whole .csv file. Torque Pro is the first app I've ever purchased. It works well enough, an excellent value for $5. Battery capacity is only displayed to the tenth of a kwh (ex: 15.1 kwh) in a widget, however, when viewing the pid selector screen, it gives a value to a ten thousandth (edit: It's really a measure of about 1/30th of a kwh).

My battery, according to Torque, has gradually gone from 15.4kwh capacity to 15.1kwh, in just this month. I think between charging to 100% everyday, "full use of" acceleration, frequent fast charging, and hot temperatures, my Spark isn't being babied, while not being used in a manner that is outside the terms of the warranty.

I may have to press my employer a bit harder for a 110v outlet, so that I don't have daily range anxiety this winter (and likely degrade the battery worse in the process).

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Thanks for the info. For reasons that I do not understand, 2015 Spark EVs seem to have a battery capacity around 15 kWh at ~30k miles on the ODO. Yours would be number 4 that I have seen reported.
But... the way you drive the car will impact your GOM range. I typically drive mostly around town, in L and around 40-50 mph. So, it is not unusual to see my miles / kWh run between 6 to 7. At 6 mi/kWh and at 15 kWh HV battery capacity, I would still get a full charge range of 80 miles. This is more than enough daily range for my needs. A friend of mine, who just turned in his leased 2015, had a battery capacity of 14.8 kWh. However, his driving to and from work was mostly on the freeway at 70 mph and the reduced battery capacity gave him range anxiety.

TheLondonBroiler
Posts: 179
Joined: Tue Oct 31, 2017 6:25 am

Re: Battery degredation

Sun Jul 29, 2018 7:17 pm

MrDRMorgan wrote: it is not unusual to see my miles / kWh run between 6 to 7
Likewise. I'm currently seeing ~6.5mi/kwh to work & ~5.5 on the way home. I just like to get up to speed fast ;) Lifetime mi/kwh is now 5.4 (tripometer has never been reset). Sad to think the eventual replacement likely won't be nearly as efficient..... we'll see I guess. The Bolt isn't too bad, Hyundai/Kia are producing exciting BEVs, and a Tesla 3 might be worthwhile after all.
2015 Spark EV w/ DCFC 46,XXX miles
Purchased 1/20/18 w/ 16,5XX miles
2019 Bolt EV w/ DCFC 6,XXX miles
Purchased 3/16/19 w/ 87 miles

CCIE
Posts: 174
Joined: Tue Nov 22, 2016 8:47 am
Location: CT

Re: Battery degredation

Mon Jul 30, 2018 6:54 am

For those seeing low reported values (15-16kwh) at 30,000 miles, are you regularly charging the battery to full?

I know the Volt has battery capacity calculation issues (and reduced actual range) if the battery isn't regularly charged to full. The car's computers really need to see full charge cycles with post-charge cell-balancing in order to know the battery's true capacity. Possibly the Spark EV is the same.
2018 Tesla M3 LR RWD
2015 Spark EV 2LT with DCFC (traded-in 8/2018)
2012 Volt

MrDRMorgan
Posts: 947
Joined: Wed Oct 30, 2013 7:27 am
Location: Manteca, California

Re: Battery degredation

Mon Jul 30, 2018 7:32 am

CCIE wrote:For those seeing low reported values (15-16kwh) at 30,000 miles, are you regularly charging the battery to full?

I know the Volt has battery capacity calculation issues (and reduced actual range) if the battery isn't regularly charged to full. The car's computers really need to see full charge cycles with post-charge cell-balancing in order to know the battery's true capacity. Possibly the Spark EV is the same.
With the current high heat where I live - 100+ deg. F - and with my garage running 95 to 100 deg. F, both of my Spark EVs are plugged in most of the time with each car set to the charge immediate mode. This allows the battery cooling function to keep the battery in each car cool. I have both an L1 EVSE which I have to set to 12 amps each charging cycle, and a 3.3 kWh L2 EVSE. So, right now, both cars see full charging most of the time just to keep the battery cool.

Then there is the camp that says don't fully charge the HV battery unless you need the range. In cooler weather, I set my charging / disconnect times to have each car charged to 75-80% capacity each morning at 8am.

TheLondonBroiler
Posts: 179
Joined: Tue Oct 31, 2017 6:25 am

Re: Battery degredation

Mon Jul 30, 2018 9:17 am

CCIE wrote:For those seeing low reported values (15-16kwh) at 30,000 miles, are you regularly charging the battery to full?


Yes. Using a Juicebox 40 for home charging (hopefully, a little bit of future proofing) charge to 100% everyday (if there was a 10% "hilltop" reserve, like in the Bolt, I could probably get away with using it in the summer at least). I've never charged to 100% with the level 1 / 110 volt esve. I check individual cell voltages via Torque, every week/every other week, and they are VERY balanced (like to a hundredth of a volt).

Minus leaving traffic lights to display electric car performance, I drive very conservatively. Here's a shot from my dash before running some errands this morning.
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2015 Spark EV w/ DCFC 46,XXX miles
Purchased 1/20/18 w/ 16,5XX miles
2019 Bolt EV w/ DCFC 6,XXX miles
Purchased 3/16/19 w/ 87 miles

espresso
Posts: 5
Joined: Tue Sep 04, 2018 8:13 am

Re: Battery degredation

Tue Sep 04, 2018 8:27 am

Hi
new owner here.
What PID codes are you using for !Battery Capacity (PID 2241a3) and !Battery Level Displayed (PID 228334) ??
Those 2 codes are showing no data on my TorquePro.
Maybe the CVS file I have downloaded is no up to date or something...

Thx

TheLondonBroiler
Posts: 179
Joined: Tue Oct 31, 2017 6:25 am

Re: Battery degredation

Tue Sep 04, 2018 8:40 am

This is from my download on 6/8/18. Haven't had any problems. My last stated capacity is a hair below 15kwh. I'm pretty well convinced, in my case, and one other I've seen, that torque is reporting capacity 0.6kwh lower than the energy usage screen calculation.
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2015 Spark EV w/ DCFC 46,XXX miles
Purchased 1/20/18 w/ 16,5XX miles
2019 Bolt EV w/ DCFC 6,XXX miles
Purchased 3/16/19 w/ 87 miles

MrDRMorgan
Posts: 947
Joined: Wed Oct 30, 2013 7:27 am
Location: Manteca, California

Re: Battery degredation

Tue Sep 04, 2018 11:02 am

espresso wrote:Hi
new owner here.
What PID codes are you using for !Battery Capacity (PID 2241a3) and !Battery Level Displayed (PID 228334) ??
Those 2 codes are showing no data on my TorquePro.
Maybe the CVS file I have downloaded is no up to date or something...

Thx
The PID file I am using was prepared by Sean Graham and I found it on the Chevy Bolt Forum. Boatbum1 posted about it on this forum. The PIDs you listed - 2241A3 for battery capacity and 228334 for battery level displayed are the ones I am using. These have been working just fine for my 2014 and 2016 Spark EVs. I even tested a friend's 2015 Spark EV and it worked there too. Check to make sure your CSV file is not corrupted.
Last edited by MrDRMorgan on Tue Sep 04, 2018 11:16 am, edited 1 time in total.

MrDRMorgan
Posts: 947
Joined: Wed Oct 30, 2013 7:27 am
Location: Manteca, California

Re: Battery degredation

Tue Sep 04, 2018 11:06 am

TheLondonBroiler wrote:This is from my download on 6/8/18. Haven't had any problems. My last stated capacity is a hair below 15kwh. I'm pretty well convinced, in my case, and one other I've seen, that torque is reporting capacity 0.6kwh lower than the energy usage screen calculation.
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I found it was very difficult to completely factor out the effect regeneration had on the battery capacity calculation using the Energy Screen data. The TorquePro data is much, much more stable with little variation.

espresso
Posts: 5
Joined: Tue Sep 04, 2018 8:13 am

Re: Battery degredation

Wed Sep 05, 2018 5:40 am

Thx guys,

This is exactly the same data in the CVS file...
I'll do more reading testing when I get my new to me Spark 2015 delivered later this week.
I tried to get as much data from battery as I could before negotiating oevr last weekend.
At least I got Cells Voltage and Avg Cells Voltage readout which was 4.1V all around so from my understanding the bat is healthy will see about it's capacity later.
The dash was showing 110+ km (70+ Miles) both times I test drive it.

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