hishnika
Posts: 13
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2018 10:34 pm

Re: Battery Degradation vs Battery Limited Warranty

Fri Oct 19, 2018 6:26 pm

So I got a used Spark EV in July 2018 and the OBD Torque Pro battery capacity read 15.8 kWh. Then, to my surprise, last month it went up to 15.9! And just this week it went up again, to 16.0. Has anyone seen this before? I assume it may be due to my different driving and charging style than the previous owner... but that's not efficiency, it's usable capacity so hmm. I'm pretty paranoid about outside temps so I keep it in a cool garage when it's hot and don't fill it up to 100% often, plus I don't use fast charging. Not sure if any of that helps... but I'll take a slightly higher capacity.

I'm also curious if the car might slightly up the total usable battery over time to keep the EPA range stable for longer. (This is me just speculating.) Today the raw Soc read 97.2 when I charged it to 100% on the Soc meter. I'm curious if, over time, the car might let me use more of the raw capacity. I'm putting the number here so I have a reference number to come back to in a few months :)

TheLondonBroiler
Posts: 179
Joined: Tue Oct 31, 2017 6:25 am

Re: Battery Degradation vs Battery Limited Warranty

Fri Oct 19, 2018 8:11 pm

hishnika wrote:Then, to my surprise, last month it went up to 15.9! And just this week it went up again, to 16.0. Has anyone seen this before?
Best I saw was a .0133 kwh increase after I almost fully depleted the battery, then charged to full.


hishnika wrote: I'm also curious if the car might slightly up the total usable battery over time to keep the EPA range stable for longer. (This is me just speculating.) Today the raw Soc read 97.2 when I charged it to 100% on the Soc meter. I'm curious if, over time, the car might let me use more of the raw capacity.
I don't believe even a car like the volt, which has a huge battery reserve, will do this, but I could be wrong.. We only have a "supposed/official" single kwh between total capacity and usable. The Spark considers itself full at 97%, according to Torque. If you dcfc you will see this also. You can get it to 100%, if you ever REALLY need to, by leaving it plugged in on an L2 charger, and turning on the car with a slight (hvac) power draw. Also I occasionally see 100% if I L2 charge and the vehicle has just finished charging (and hasn't balanced the cells?).
2015 Spark EV w/ DCFC 46,XXX miles
Purchased 1/20/18 w/ 16,5XX miles
2019 Bolt EV w/ DCFC 6,XXX miles
Purchased 3/16/19 w/ 87 miles

Largo16
Posts: 9
Joined: Tue Nov 20, 2018 10:19 am

Re: Battery Degradation vs Battery Limited Warranty

Tue Nov 20, 2018 10:36 am

New owner here as of last week. Didn’t lurk these forums prior to owning and I’m concerned like others here. My 2015 Spark EV is charging to 62mi of range though it only has ~22,000 on the clock. It is cold here is Seattle, reaching down into the 30s overnight. Using what I’ve read on the forums, I just did the ‘screen based’ battery capacity calculation yeilding 14.35 as the capacity. This is only one data point and I’m interested to know if anyone has reached the threshold for replacement and how that process goes. Seeing that I theoretically have 5yrs/75K miles to reach the threshold - it seems likely. If there’s a thread that’s already taken up parsing the fine print and supposing... (which is an internet sport almost) please point me in that direction.

TheLondonBroiler
Posts: 179
Joined: Tue Oct 31, 2017 6:25 am

Re: Battery Degradation vs Battery Limited Warranty

Tue Nov 20, 2018 11:50 am

Largo16 wrote:If there’s a thread that’s already taken up parsing the fine print and supposing... (which is an internet sport almost) please point me in that direction.
Pretty straight forward. You lose 40% battery capacity, they have to get you back above that. That means new cells, used cells, reconditioned cells, etc. If GM/Dealership doesn't like it, they're only going to delay the inevitable and pay attorney's/court fees on top of it. Know what you're talking about, don't back down, they'll unhappily play ball. Don't forget, you are in the right.

I can't recall reading about any packs needing replacement, however, according to InsideEVs US sales figures, more than 5,000 2015 & 2016 Sparks were sold here. I think it's reasonable to assume that if degradation continues at the current rate, there are quite a few Sparks that will be used enough to qualify for pack reconditioning/replacement.

Image
2015 Spark EV w/ DCFC 46,XXX miles
Purchased 1/20/18 w/ 16,5XX miles
2019 Bolt EV w/ DCFC 6,XXX miles
Purchased 3/16/19 w/ 87 miles

MrDRMorgan
Posts: 947
Joined: Wed Oct 30, 2013 7:27 am
Location: Manteca, California

Re: Battery Degradation vs Battery Limited Warranty

Thu Nov 22, 2018 11:55 am

TheLondonBroiler wrote:
Largo16 wrote:If there’s a thread that’s already taken up parsing the fine print and supposing... (which is an internet sport almost) please point me in that direction.
Pretty straight forward. You lose 40% battery capacity, they have to get you back above that. That means new cells, used cells, reconditioned cells, etc. If GM/Dealership doesn't like it, they're only going to delay the inevitable and pay attorney's/court fees on top of it. Know what you're talking about, don't back down, they'll unhappily play ball. Don't forget, you are in the right.

I can't recall reading about any packs needing replacement, however, according to InsideEVs US sales figures, more than 5,000 2015 & 2016 Sparks were sold here. I think it's reasonable to assume that if degradation continues at the current rate, there are quite a few Sparks that will be used enough to qualify for pack reconditioning/replacement.

Image
My 2014 Spark EV HV battery Limited Warranty has an upper limit of 35% and I believe my leased 2015 Spark EV ( turned in in June 18) also had an upper limit of 35%. My 2016 Spark EV Limited Warranty shows the upper limit increased to 40%.

SparkE
Posts: 310
Joined: Tue Sep 06, 2016 1:18 am

Re: Battery Degradation vs Battery Limited Warranty

Thu Nov 22, 2018 12:21 pm

MrDRMorgan wrote:
TheLondonBroiler wrote: Pretty straight forward. You lose 40% battery capacity, they have to get you back above that. That means new cells, used cells, reconditioned cells, etc. If GM/Dealership doesn't like it, they're only going to delay the inevitable and pay attorney's/court fees on top of it. Know what you're talking about, don't back down, they'll unhappily play ball. Don't forget, you are in the right.

I can't recall reading about any packs needing replacement, however, according to InsideEVs US sales figures, more than 5,000 2015 & 2016 Sparks were sold here. I think it's reasonable to assume that if degradation continues at the current rate, there are quite a few Sparks that will be used enough to qualify for pack reconditioning/replacement.
My 2014 Spark EV HV battery Limited Warranty has an upper limit of 35% and I believe my leased 2015 Spark EV ( turned in in June 18) also had an upper limit of 35%. My 2016 Spark EV Limited Warranty shows the upper limit increased to 40%.
Interesting point I hadn't considered. When buying used, should one get the WORST one available, expecting the battery to be replaced before the warranty ends (so one isn't left at 33% less capacity), or should one pay more to get the best one available?

NORTON
Posts: 1212
Joined: Fri May 01, 2015 5:52 am
Location: KC,MO

Re: Battery Degradation vs Battery Limited Warranty

Fri Nov 23, 2018 7:14 am

SparkE wrote:Interesting point I hadn't considered. When buying used, should one get the WORST one available, expecting the battery to be replaced before the warranty ends ...
Funny! :lol:

But a valid point !! :!:
Used '14 2LT w/ DCFC.
+67 K miles. Mostly free electrons! Only one LONG visit to the shop....
GM needs Modern Troubleshooting tools for Modern EV's.

agdodgerfan
Posts: 51
Joined: Thu Jul 24, 2014 8:17 pm

Re: Battery Degradation vs Battery Limited Warranty

Tue Dec 04, 2018 9:14 pm

Hey everyone. Haven't been online in a bit and haven't read entire thread but it looks like you have figured out how to test battery capacity. I believe my spark might have highest mileage out there at almost 107k. Anyone in LA area with a tester want to check the capacity to report in the forum? I would say at least 30 to 40% of my charging has been level 3. Let me know if anyone is interested. I will try to remember to check back in here. I am also gonna consider trying various modifications on it since I no longer have warranty and only 1 payment left.

NORTON
Posts: 1212
Joined: Fri May 01, 2015 5:52 am
Location: KC,MO

Re: Battery Degradation vs Battery Limited Warranty

Wed Dec 05, 2018 3:52 am

agdodgerfan wrote:Hey everyone. ..... I believe my spark might have highest mileage out there at almost 107k. Anyone in LA area with a tester want to check the capacity to report in the forum? .....
You Da'Man !!
It would be great to get the detailed Capacity reading thru OBD-II port.

But what if you start logging the values from the 'Energy Usage Page'?
Start writing down the "kWh and % Used" when you use the car to low mile range. Some say anything <50% is a valid test point.

It would be interesting to see what your notes add up to versus what the car reports just one time thru the OBD-II.
Used '14 2LT w/ DCFC.
+67 K miles. Mostly free electrons! Only one LONG visit to the shop....
GM needs Modern Troubleshooting tools for Modern EV's.

agdodgerfan
Posts: 51
Joined: Thu Jul 24, 2014 8:17 pm

Re: Battery Degradation vs Battery Limited Warranty

Wed Dec 05, 2018 11:52 am

I honestly don't think that's accurate I think it doesn't take into account region because when I did try and track in the past it was all over the place. I think it might be OK to estimate but that's about it. Today I was fully charged when I left my house. 52% says 7.3 key used so I am just over 14kwh capacity.

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