xylhim
Posts: 222
Joined: Wed Nov 20, 2013 7:12 pm

Re: 60KW charging possible on Spark ?

Sun Dec 25, 2016 12:05 pm

I think the Spark gets a little more than 48kw. It says in the owners manual that the Spark is designed to fully take advantage of 50kW stations. I think when the vehicle is on- that some of the power is being diverted elsewhere, and that it is only really 50kW when the car is off. Notice a similar thing happens when plugged into level 2, with the power in only says "2 kW".

SparkE
Posts: 439
Joined: Tue Sep 06, 2016 1:18 am
Location: SF Bay Area (San Jose, CA)

Re: 60KW charging possible on Spark ?

Sun Dec 25, 2016 6:54 pm

Every DCFC unit I have ever used tells me what rate *IT* is providing. The highest rate I have ever seen for my Spark is 48 kW. (I often get 44-46kW from the ChargePoint Express 200.)

67goat
Posts: 77
Joined: Mon Aug 15, 2016 3:27 pm

Re: 60KW charging possible on Spark ?

Mon Dec 26, 2016 6:52 pm

Given the inherent loss in electricity when you transfer, convert, and store it, 48kw in probably is maximizing a 50kw output.

TheLondonBroiler
Posts: 282
Joined: Tue Oct 31, 2017 6:25 am

Re: 60KW charging possible on Spark ?

Tue Mar 27, 2018 7:44 pm

The owner's manual states:

"The vehicle is designed to take full
advantage of a 55kW DC charger to
obtain optimal charging times. When
the vehicle is connected to a
charger larger than 55kW, the
vehicle will not charge any quicker."

I believe the world's tallest thermometer/Baker station is about to open with 350kw stations..... Anyone out that way willing to test when the opportunity arises? I contacted someone on Plugshare who commented on the station and who's vehicle is a Spark EV. I will forward any relevant info.
2015 Spark EV w/ DCFC 48,XXX miles
Purchased 1/20/18 w/ 16,5XX miles
0-40k mile efficiency avg - 5.3 mi/kwh

2019 Bolt EV w/ DCFC 73,XXX miles
Purchased 3/16/19 w/ 87 miles
Lifetime efficiency avg - 4.8 mi/kwh

SparkevBlogspot
Posts: 499
Joined: Mon May 25, 2015 12:19 pm

Re: 60KW charging possible on Spark ?

Fri Mar 30, 2018 1:31 pm

Common DCFC is supposedly capable of 500V at 125A = 62.5 kW, hence the rating of 60kW. SparkEV peak battery voltage is bit under 400V at 80%, 125A = 50kW. I've seen it show 49 kW while charging, but mostly 48kW. Current tapers down after 80% while voltage remains the same hence the power tapering.

Now if SparkEV battery can hit 500V, then it'd be capable of 60kW by using 125A of current. The new DCFC units can provide more than 125A current, but not the common ones by eVgo today. Even with higher current capability of DCFC, I think SparkEV is limited to 125A.

As for Bolt, they drop to 36kW even with 50kW charger (aka 62.5kW providing 125A) at 50% state of charge, I doubt they'd take much more even if provided with 1,000,000kW chargers.

SparkEV remains the quickest charging EV in the world, and in history.

TheLondonBroiler
Posts: 282
Joined: Tue Oct 31, 2017 6:25 am

Re: 60KW charging possible on Spark ?

Fri Mar 30, 2018 2:36 pm

SparkevBlogspot wrote: SparkEV remains the quickest charging EV in the world, and in history.
My apologies if I'm incorrect, but I believe the Hyundai Ioniq (100kw capable?), Teslas (minus Roaster?), and I'm sure I'm missing another, top us. I do believe prior to the Ioniq, it did have all non Tesla EVs beat.
2015 Spark EV w/ DCFC 48,XXX miles
Purchased 1/20/18 w/ 16,5XX miles
0-40k mile efficiency avg - 5.3 mi/kwh

2019 Bolt EV w/ DCFC 73,XXX miles
Purchased 3/16/19 w/ 87 miles
Lifetime efficiency avg - 4.8 mi/kwh

SparkevBlogspot
Posts: 499
Joined: Mon May 25, 2015 12:19 pm

Re: 60KW charging possible on Spark ?

Fri Mar 30, 2018 2:47 pm

Quick is in terms of time. When discussing battery charging, C rating should be used. In that, SparkEV battery charges at 2.4C to 2.6C. 48 kW / 18.4kWh = 2.6, even higher for some degraded batteries. No Tesla can charge to 80% in 20 minutes. In fact, some (S85 I saw plugged in at Chademo) can barely charge 40 kW at 80% (0.47C).

If every EV has batteries like SparkEV and chargers to keep up, most DCFC sessions would be 10 to 15 minutes. It will be many years in the future, maybe even a decade, before other EV catch up to SparkEV.

SparkE
Posts: 439
Joined: Tue Sep 06, 2016 1:18 am
Location: SF Bay Area (San Jose, CA)

Re: 60KW charging possible on Spark ?

Sat Mar 31, 2018 1:20 am

The Kia Soul EV can charge at 100 kW - much faster than the Spark EV. 100 kW, usable capacity of pack is 27 kWh : 3.7C.

Hyundai IONIQ will charge at about 70 kW max. (70kw/28kWh=2.5C)

The Spark is a great small car - I really like it - but there's no need to exaggerate or lie about it.

TheLondonBroiler
Posts: 282
Joined: Tue Oct 31, 2017 6:25 am

Re: 60KW charging possible on Spark ?

Sat Mar 31, 2018 6:03 am

SparkE wrote:The Spark is a great small car - I really like it
Agreed
SparkE wrote: there's no need to exaggerate or lie about it.
I believe it's a difference of semantics. You and I equate the "fastest charging" as the one that has the highest rate of speed (ie 55kw Spark (from owner's manual) vs 68kw Ioniq (Bjorn Nyland real world testing (highest confirmed?)) Ioniq is clearly "faster"). BlogSpot interprets (I believe) "fastest charging" as the EV you plug in at a fast charger at 0% ,charge to 100%, and finishes the quickest. I believe, by his definition, he MAY actually be right.

While there are EVs that charge at a higher rate of power (this is what I initially took issue with), he MAY actually be correct saying there is no other EV, currently, that can charge it's battery fully 0-100% quicker. On paper the Ioniq should beat it, but from what I've seen, it won't fast charge to 100%, 94% is what I repeatedly see. Even transitioning to level 2 charging immediately, would most definitely lead to a slower 100% charge, compared to the SPARK EV, which from my experience, will fast charge to 100%.
SparkE wrote: The Kia Soul EV can charge at 100 kW - much faster than the Spark EV. 100 kW, usable capacity of pack is 27 kWh : 3.7C.
To the best of my knowledge, the Soul EV charging at 100kw (or anywhere near that), is purely theoretical. According to Wikipedia and other sources, there aren't any Chademo plug DCFC stations exceeding 62.5kw. Until I see credible documentation, I'll remain a skeptic

I appreciate the spirited discussion!
2015 Spark EV w/ DCFC 48,XXX miles
Purchased 1/20/18 w/ 16,5XX miles
0-40k mile efficiency avg - 5.3 mi/kwh

2019 Bolt EV w/ DCFC 73,XXX miles
Purchased 3/16/19 w/ 87 miles
Lifetime efficiency avg - 4.8 mi/kwh

SparkE
Posts: 439
Joined: Tue Sep 06, 2016 1:18 am
Location: SF Bay Area (San Jose, CA)

Re: 60KW charging possible on Spark ?

Sat Mar 31, 2018 11:49 am

There are CHAdeMO stations in Europe, in service, that charge faster than 62 kW.

There is a (ONE) station in Fremont, CA that charges at (up to) 350 kW ( 350A @ 600V, so ... 140 kW @ 400V, 122 kW @ 350V ).

There is a station being installed in Baker, CA ("the world's tallest thermometer") that will have several of the DCFCs that are in Fremont - it should be open in April ("real soon now").

I only know about the above two because I live in CA - there are sure to be more being installed elsewhere.

I just can't buy SparkevBlogspot's premise. Frankly, "the fastest from 0-100%" is the most ridiculous, convoluted way to define "fastest" I can think of. The Spark can get to 80 miles of range faster than another car can get to 260 miles, so it is "faster"? Balderdash!

The Bolt can add 130 miles range much, much faster than the Spark EV could add 130 miles range, so the Spark is obviously slower! (Yes, I am being ridiculous as well, to underline my point.) Every Tesla ever sold sucks juice faster than a Spark EV (more electricity and more range added per minute). The Kia Soul can add juice more quickly as well (although I am not familiar with the charging curve on the Soul - at what point(s) it steps down charging rate).

While I love my Spark EV, the fastest rate I have ever been able to pump electrons in was 47 kW (once) at an efacec charger. Usually, the 125A DCFCs that I use tend to charge around 42-44 kW (mostly the Tritium chargers installed by ChargePoint). Yes, the Spark will charge at a high rate up to 80% SoC, with little to no ramp-down (unless the temperature of the pack requires it).

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