MrDRMorgan
Posts: 961
Joined: Wed Oct 30, 2013 7:27 am
Location: Manteca, California

Re: Torque pro battery capacity guess...

Tue Jul 30, 2019 3:49 pm

musterdbom wrote:
Tue Jul 30, 2019 11:05 am
I guess my answer is yes, for 90% of my needs it would be fine. There are times when I'd want to drive it 65 miles for a day trip and charge while there, then 65 miles back. The BACK is what I'm concerned about as it's a 2000 ft elevation gain toward the end of the trip.

With Carvana I have until Friday to decide if I want to exchange the car for FREE. What are the odds that another model would have LOWER battery estimate? I'm not seeing much in the lower 14kwh range at my mileage 28k, seems to be on the edge of abnormal? Thanks for your input!
14.4 kwh does seem a bit low. Perhaps a few full charge sessions will balance the battery and raise the battery capacity. As an example, my 2016 Spark EV had a battery capacity of 15.4 kwh on 10 May 2019 and is now 15.8 on 27 July 2019. A friend of mine turned in his leased 2015 Spark EV last year. I measured his battery capacity shortly before he turned it in and it read 14.8 kwh. He had just over 30k miles on the ODO.

My Friday trips take me over two passes going in each direction. Fortunately, I get some power added back into the battery on the downhill legs.

musterdbom
Posts: 16
Joined: Fri Jul 19, 2019 4:32 am

Re: Torque pro battery capacity guess...

Wed Jul 31, 2019 11:56 am

Thanks for that little bit of info, wasn't aware the the battery estimate could increase. Given what I know NOW and my 7 day Carvana window I may opt to go with a different spark for $500 more that has 14k miles instead of 28k. I think my odds of a higher capacity battery are greatly increased and would keep me happy for the 3k miles per year I put on it and would limit my range anxiety of further distances from stations.

I charged fully last night and drove it about 40 miles today and it's on target to hit about 70 miles max which I feel should be a bit better for the mileage and weather. I remember when I had my Volt I cringed at how much range disappeared during the winter and I know I'd be kicking myself later if I didn't swap it out for free before the offer is up.
2016 Spark ev 2LT white

MrDRMorgan
Posts: 961
Joined: Wed Oct 30, 2013 7:27 am
Location: Manteca, California

Re: Torque pro battery capacity guess...

Wed Jul 31, 2019 3:12 pm

musterdbom wrote:
Wed Jul 31, 2019 11:56 am
Thanks for that little bit of info, wasn't aware the the battery estimate could increase. Given what I know NOW and my 7 day Carvana window I may opt to go with a different spark for $500 more that has 14k miles instead of 28k. I think my odds of a higher capacity battery are greatly increased and would keep me happy for the 3k miles per year I put on it and would limit my range anxiety of further distances from stations.

I charged fully last night and drove it about 40 miles today and it's on target to hit about 70 miles max which I feel should be a bit better for the mileage and weather. I remember when I had my Volt I cringed at how much range disappeared during the winter and I know I'd be kicking myself later if I didn't swap it out for free before the offer is up.
As a point of reference for you, I fully charged both my 2014 and 2016 Spark EVs overnight and, this morning, recorded the TorquePro readings for battery capacity and an GOM values.

2014 Spark EV: Battery Capacity: 15.9 kwh Full charge GOM range: 88 miles - 19453 miles on the ODO.
2016 Spark EV: Battery Capacity: 15.8 kwh Full charge GOM range: 91 miles - 22535 miles on the ODO.

These values take into account heavy AC use during most of the day with the cabin temperature set to 76 deg. F. How you drive and whether you are using the AC or heater will have a significant effect on your full charge GOM range.

You also may want to check to see if the factory tires are still on the car or if they have been replaced. Spark EVs came with low rolling resistance tires. Non-LRR tires will affect your full-charge GOM range too. If the tires - especially the front tires - have been replaced, it may be an indicator that the car had been driven hard. Both my 2014 and 2016 Spark EVs were purchased as used vehicles and significant tire wear was noticeable on the 2016 which had 6500 miles on the ODO at the time of purchase. I have since replaced the front tires on both cars. I replaced the factory tires with Bridgestone EP 422 Plus, 185 / 55 R 15 82V. The back tires do not wear nearly as fast as the front tires do and have not been replaced on either car.

musterdbom
Posts: 16
Joined: Fri Jul 19, 2019 4:32 am

Re: Torque pro battery capacity guess...

Thu Aug 01, 2019 3:28 am

Thanks for all your input/information. I drove the car yesterday until I got it down to 8miles remaining, charged it overnight, and just checked the vitals:

2016 Spark EV: Battery Capacity: 14.5 kwh Full charge GOM range: 65 miles - 28000 miles on the ODO.

So I did gain a tenth of a kwh on the battery capacity "guess" gauge in torque, max GOM range says 75miles which is unlikely. I was down to 8 miles right at 55 miles total driving mixed city and about 10 min of highway speed.

So there's zero cost to me to, other than the logistical effort of coordinating with Carvana which has been great so far, choose a different car. The only hiccup right now is inventory of low mileage sparks with DC fast charge so I went ahead and "reserved" one that is coming soon with 14k on it.

I either keep updating this thread, which is off topic now, or start a new one with my journey just for fun in case it gets tricky.
2016 Spark ev 2LT white

SparkE
Posts: 319
Joined: Tue Sep 06, 2016 1:18 am

Re: Torque pro battery capacity guess...

Thu Aug 01, 2019 5:47 am

I think you made the right choice.

Earlier this year I bought a 2015 with 12K miles on it, and it had 17 kWh left in battery capacity (according to Torque Pro). During the warm months, I am getting about 100 miles range (around town, including 45-50 mph expressways). I think it's worth the extra $500-$1000 for the longer range (I plan on keeping this car for the next 10-15 years, 8K-10K miles/yr). Once the range of a full charge is down to "only" 60 miles or so, it will become the shopping/restaurant/cinema "just around town" car.

JAMMan
Posts: 15
Joined: Mon Jul 01, 2019 9:34 am

Re: Torque pro battery capacity guess...

Thu Aug 01, 2019 6:46 am

SparkE wrote:
Thu Aug 01, 2019 5:47 am
I think you made the right choice.

Earlier this year I bought a 2015 with 12K miles on it, and it had 17 kWh left in battery capacity (according to Torque Pro). During the warm months, I am getting about 100 miles range (around town, including 45-50 mph expressways). I think it's worth the extra $500-$1000 for the longer range (I plan on keeping this car for the next 10-15 years, 8K-10K miles/yr). Once the range of a full charge is down to "only" 60 miles or so, it will become the shopping/restaurant/cinema "just around town" car.
A 45-50 mph expressway?? Where I live in metropolitan Atlanta (outside city limits), 45mph is most town roads, 55mph is expressway/highway and 70+mph posted is interstate. Add 5-10 mph for actual speeds vs posted.

The longer I have my Spark EV the more I realize how I drive isn't as important as the speed I drive. 45mph or less and I'm in the 5mi/kWh+, but 50mph and above I trend towards 4mi/kWh or less. Flooring it up to cruising speed doesn't affect range as much as the wind resistance at speed.

To contribute to the main thread, my Torque Pro battery capacity reads about 15.9kWh on a 2015 LT2 w/DCFC and 39,xxx miles.

SparkE
Posts: 319
Joined: Tue Sep 06, 2016 1:18 am

Re: Torque pro battery capacity guess...

Thu Aug 01, 2019 10:51 am

JAMMan wrote:
Thu Aug 01, 2019 6:46 am

A 45-50 mph expressway?? Where I live in metropolitan Atlanta (outside city limits), 45mph is most town roads, 55mph is expressway/highway and 70+mph posted is interstate. Add 5-10 mph for actual speeds vs posted.

The longer I have my Spark EV the more I realize how I drive isn't as important as the speed I drive. 45mph or less and I'm in the 5mi/kWh+, but 50mph and above I trend towards 4mi/kWh or less. Flooring it up to cruising speed doesn't affect range as much as the wind resistance at speed.

To contribute to the main thread, my Torque Pro battery capacity reads about 15.9kWh on a 2015 LT2 w/DCFC and 39,xxx miles.
A) Yeah, I don't quite (but might as well) live inside San Jose (CA) city limits, so pretty much completely urban driving, and the 'expressways' aren't 'motorways', they are two or three lane major traffic roads that allow you about a mile between stoplights.

B) Yup, speed kills range, and it is due to the fact that wind resistance goes up exponentially (twice as fast is the SQUARE of the speed), not linearly (i.e., NOT twice the speed, twice the resistance).

C) I have always "babied" my battery pack, only filling it up to 100% when I *need* that extra 15 miles of range - or every 6-10 weeks (to make sure that the batteries get top-balanced every so often). Normally, I charge to 75-85% because 50 miles (with 20 mile safety cushion) is more than enough for most of my driving. But then I have a gas-mobile to drive if I suddenly need to drive 90 miles.

musterdbom
Posts: 16
Joined: Fri Jul 19, 2019 4:32 am

Re: Torque pro battery capacity guess...

Fri Aug 02, 2019 4:33 am

Welp, Sparky No. 1 goes back to Carvana today at 10am. Already put a couple deposits on 2 more with 14-16k so I can see pics/have first option to buy when they're detailed and ready. Finger's crossed!
2016 Spark ev 2LT white

MrDRMorgan
Posts: 961
Joined: Wed Oct 30, 2013 7:27 am
Location: Manteca, California

Re: Torque pro battery capacity guess...

Fri Aug 02, 2019 8:09 am

musterdbom wrote:
Fri Aug 02, 2019 4:33 am
Welp, Sparky No. 1 goes back to Carvana today at 10am. Already put a couple deposits on 2 more with 14-16k so I can see pics/have first option to buy when they're detailed and ready. Finger's crossed!
It will be interesting to see what the battery capacity is in the car you select. My guess is around 16 kwh.

Chris101
Posts: 99
Joined: Thu Jan 18, 2018 11:37 am

Re: Torque pro battery capacity guess...

Fri Aug 02, 2019 8:53 am

Let us know how it goes.. you are the 3rd person to have battery capacity issues from a Carvana Spark EV (that we know of who actually posts online about it). It seems to be they buy whatever from auction but never think (or bother) to check actual range and capacity ahead of time.. its just a numbers game and Spark EV is a good seller nationwide for Caravana is the bottom line here.

The reasons a 2016 Spark with lower mileage might NOT have the best capacity left is if it was neglected in the sense of being run down to 0 or below, allowed to sit in the heat or cold without any charge-- and excessive, constant and/or only DCFC its entire life... also there are people who are downright obnoxious about plugging in whenever they park the car -- to a point where you are constantly doing these stupid little charges... I looked at a Spark EV where the owner bragged about always keeping it plugged in and even plugging it back in after a short 3 mile trip no matter what, always plugged in JUST LIKE THE MANUAL SAYS TO DO... but guess what? that Spark with 18k miles had only 14.2kWh capacity left-- so how healthy is it to always plug in and constantly recharge small amounts over and over and over?


The bottom line is now we have to rethink how we buy a vehicle when it comes to EVs.. While we don't have to worry about OIl changes, we do have to worry about how it was charged and drained as part of normal everyday use....

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