Charging Station issues

Used one of the charge ports at Fashion Valley, San Diego today. Came back 90 mins later to find a Nissan Leaf in a non charge space next to us had removed the charger from my car, stuck it in their car. Due to the fact that the Leaf has a lock to prevent anyone removing the charger we could not return the favor. So I let the air out of one of their tires.

Anyone else had this problem? How come Chevy doesn't have this lock feature?

Try turning on "Charge Cord Theft Alert." Page 5-41 in the owner's manual. I think that will work.

nigelthelimey said:

Used one of the charge ports at Fashion Valley, San Diego today. Came back 90 mins later to find a Nissan Leaf in a non charge space next to us had removed the charger from my car, stuck it in their car. Due to the fact that the Leaf has a lock to prevent anyone removing the charger we could not return the favor. So I let the air out of one of their tires.

Anyone else had this problem? How come Chevy doesn't have this lock feature?

Click to expand...

I agree that optional setting to lock the EVSE would be a valuable feature, along with an optional setting for automatically unlocking when charging is completed.

While I can't say that I would have chosen the same action when the Leaf owner disconnected your car, I do feel it is important for members of a society to actively discourage bad behavior.

I'm assuming that the OP wasn't done charging. If so, the Leaf driver was out of line.

BTW, charging lock on the Leaf began on the '13 model year. It wasn't on the '11 and '12. The feature has 3 settings: AUTO (unlock when done charging), middle/none (don't lock at all), LOCK (remain locked, even when done charging).

Unfortunately, that Leafer may have been confused and not known the proper way to determine if a GM vehicle is done charging (flashing green == done on Volt and Spark EV; there are a whole bunch of Volts and at least 2 Spark EVs at my work and we have an internal guide to so we can all properly tell for each vehicle). There is a guide at http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=307888#p307888 and http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=307779#p307779.

If you weren't done charging, hopefully you left them a nasty note and also a note on Plugshare, educating that guy about proper etiquette and how to tell if a GM vehicle is charging (solid green) and done (flashing green).

BTW, what really sucks is that the BMW i3 apparently has a lock and it has no settings at all. It apparently remains locked until the driver returns and unlocks (?) the car.

jsca72 said:

Try turning on "Charge Cord Theft Alert." Page 5-41 in the owner's manual. I think that will work.

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BTW, I am NOT a fan of either enabling the lock (to stay locked, even when done on a Leaf) or the honk alarm in places where you will NOT get a ticket for being not plugged in.

Here's a real world story of mine at a place w/7 free J1772s:
It was not too cool for 2 Volts to leave them on even though the cars finished charging (had transitioned to flashing green) and the drivers were nowhere to be found.

One of the drivers did show up and we did have a friendly conversation, but initially he seemed irked that I unplugged his car that was done. Duh. Someone else showed up and wanted to charge, while everything else was in use. What else are we supposed to do? Wait around until who knows when for the drivers to return (none of which left any contact info) or unplug actively charging cars instead of a COMPLETED PHEV?

This happened again when yet another car showed up. That 2nd completed Volt driver didn't return by the time I left.

(FWIW, I drive a '13 Leaf SV.)

Chocula said:

nigelthelimey said:

Used one of the charge ports at Fashion Valley, San Diego today. Came back 90 mins later to find a Nissan Leaf in a non charge space next to us had removed the charger from my car, stuck it in their car. Due to the fact that the Leaf has a lock to prevent anyone removing the charger we could not return the favor. So I let the air out of one of their tires.

Anyone else had this problem? How come Chevy doesn't have this lock feature?

Click to expand...

I agree that optional setting to lock the EVSE would be a valuable feature, along with an optional setting for automatically unlocking when charging is completed.

While I can't say that I would have chosen the same action when the Leaf owner disconnected your car, I do feel it is important for members of a society to actively discourage bad behavior.

Click to expand...

Since owning this car I have been very aware of the correct etiquette for charging stations and while at work I always remove my car from the charging bay once it has completed the charge. I expect others to do the same but suspect in this case that the person in question has done this sort of thing before. So because of the actions of this person I was unable to complete my errands and was very inconvenienced, having to return home to pick up the other car. Yes my wife did write a note but I felt that the only way to educate was to inconvenience them back. I suspect that this owner was fairly inconvenienced and I hope learned a valuable lesson.

I also have to say that letting the air out of their tires probably wasn't the best choice, but leaving a note is certainly warranted (good on your wife for doing so). The thing is... as another person mentioned, the Leaf owner might not have known that "solid green" means charging. Plenty of electronics out there blink, flash, or have animated icons when charging, and go solid when done. GM's implementation is admittedly a little backward compared to others I've seen. If the person was new to EVs, then they can't necessarily be faulted for thinking you were done.

Mistakes happen, and I only make that case because of something I had happen to me two days after getting my Spark EV (my first plug-in car of any type).

I took the car over to Universal Studios Hollywood to enjoy a lovely anniversary day with my wife. About midway through the day I got the email from OnStar saying the car was done charging, but as I was on the opposite side of the park from the parking structure (we're talking 45 minutes to make the round-trip hike out and back to our path in the park, plus re-parking), it made sense just to stay put since we'd be leaving in a couple hours.

Once back at the car, I noticed that my Spark had been unplugged (no problem there) with the a Volt now using the cord in an opposing space (not officially marked for EVs, but close enough to use the cord). The cars on either side of mine were the same that had been there when I arrived that morning.

Then, I noticed that a healthy 5-inch scratch had been introduced to my passenger side mirror, clearly done in the ragged style of a key scratch. WTF!

It was later that I realized that the "charge cord theft" alert was still enabled (it's on by default), and unfortunately will sound even if charging is done. So, when the Volt owner unplugged my fully charged Spark, he would have been greeted with an annoying alarm for a couple minutes. It was later that I found out that "proper charging etiquette" is to turn off the alarm so that won't happen.

Did the Volt owner key my car because he got the alarm? Obviously, I have no way of knowing for sure, but that's what I assume (heck, it might not even have been him that did the keying). The thing is, I didn't know there was an alarm that would fire (again, only had the car two days and was still learning about it), yet I had to deal with a scratch that is currently touched up, but will require replacing the mirror housing before the lease is up. I could have been informed with a harsh note - and learned my lesson - but had to deal with the physical damage instead.

Remember: EV owners aren't supplied with a list of the "social norms" of charging when getting a car. Nor are they supplied a list of how other brands of vehicles indicate their charging status. Enacting revenge - while fun in the short term - only makes EV owners look like jerks. Leaving a note might not have the same "sweet justice," but at least it provides the social education without leaving the affected person guessing, having to do physical repairs, or be potentially stranded.

There are many EV etiquette forms you can print out and carry in your car if you want to help inform others. There will be years more teething issues with public charging infrastructure, so get used to it!

The great thing about being inconvenienced by somebody that doesn't use charging etiquette is that it almost always means that person is new to having an EV. We absolutely need to have this issue, that means there are more new EV drivers out there that haven't learned the ropes yet! The best thing you can do is help them learn. Most people don't like advice, as they take it to mean they're wrong and usually get a bit defensive. However, if you're kind and informative, later on they'll almost certainly remember it and heed good advice.

Getting ICEd is another story, as you know they blocked you from charging and didn't even need to. It's extremely important to be civil with ICE drivers, as many people have never dealt with an EV driver before, so you might be the first representation of an EV driver they've ever had! At best, you can be hopeful and perhaps it was an honest mistake. At worst, if you end up confronting them, be fair and let them know they blocked your fuel pump. Just like nobody parks a car in front of a gas nozzle if they don't need to use it, nobody should park in front of an EV charger if they don't need to use it. If they're a jerk, remember that nobody likes advice, and if you act like a jerk back then everybody around will think that EV drivers are jerks. Be friendly!!!

As a Spark EV and Nissan Leaf owner in Portland, the country's most dense public charging location per capita, I've had tons of difficulties. I promise, honey is much better than vinegar when it comes to charging difficulties.

Bryce

Unfortunately, although it's more likely that someone who's had an EV for awhile has learned proper charging etiquette, it's still very possible they might not know, esp. if they rarely use public charging, don't communicate w/other EV/PHEV drivers and don't participate in online forums (e.g. this one, MNL, Facebook groups for their car, etc.) and/or aren't enthusiasts.

I carry copies of both of these charging protocol cards in my Leaf:
http://www.evchargernews.com/chargingprotocol.htm
http://www.pluginamerica.org/evcard

I use the 1st one if the location w/7 J1772s is close to full.

At the CHAdeMO DC FCs I use, if I leave my car, I put up an 8.5 x 11" sign that has my phone # that says something to the effect of, call me you urgently need to charge or if you see that my car has fallen to 7.0 kW power level or 17 amps (for the ones that read only volts and amps instead of kW, as DC FCing for me is ~400 volts and 17 amps = 6.8 kW). At that point, I'm down to L2 speed.

Although this doesn't directly relate to charging etiquette, here are some interesting/surprising "street encounter" stories w/other Leafers:
- http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=349448#p349448 - guy who had his Leaf for at least 2 years didn't know anything about the Leaf's capacity bars, didn't realize he'd lost some and it sounded like he didn't understand the snail mail he should've gotten about the capacity warranty that was retroactively added to his Leaf: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=13192

- http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=362230#p362230 - I've encountered the guy w/the '14 S I mention there a few times, including last night (8/10/14). So, he's had his '14 Leaf (which has the charging lock switch that his '11 didn't have) 4+ months and we last night talked about the lock switch. He didn't know the behavior of the 3 lock switch's positions: AUTO, middle/nothing (always unlock) and LOCK. I brought that up because of this incident at http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=15827 at the same location.

- someone else's street encounter: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=268304#p268304

- Over the weekend, near the end of https://www.fremont.gov/2089/Experience-Electric-Campaign that I attended. A volunteer was there answering questions about his own Leaf/EVs. We talked a bunch and then apparently, he's had his '13 Leaf S for ~1.5 years (1/2 year longer than I've had mine) yet he wasn't on mynissanleaf.com nor was he on https://www.facebook.com/groups/BayLeafs/. It sounded like he'd heard of neither, which is surprising.

And, there are others who just don't get in terms if charging etiquette and probably never will. Examples below.

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=357102#p357102 is a guy apparently frustrated by a particular Volt lingering all day at an L2 spot when that guy could move his car or his a 120 volt outlet instead.

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=240056#p240056, http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=242899#p242899 and http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=271535#p271535 mainly point to a Volt driver that was ruining things at Mitsubishi's station in So Cal for everyone else. I think they finally put an end to that.

Sorry but I have only had my car since March and would never remove a charge cord to charge my car unless it was an emergency and I had no charge left. In that case I would leave a note.
I think common sense prevails in all aspects of life. This is why we form a line at the bank and wait our turn.
While I understand that people make genuine mistakes, however, in this case the Leaf owner had to activate the charger lock on the steering wheel, an additional step over simply locking their car, knowing that if I returned I would try to remove the charger from their car. Had they left a note then this situation would have been avoided.

This week, I found a Volt driver had used the charger from the left hand space and parked in the right hand space. Since there was no card required, I unplugged him, setting off his alarm, and plugged it into my Spark. I plugged the charger from the right hand space into his car. If the charger had locked, I wouldn't have been able to do this.

On the other hand, somebody disconnected the charger from my car at a Chargepoint station and left it on the ground. A good reason to have a lock.

Guns are legal. I kind of like the location where my head currently resides.

NomadMac said:

This week, I found a Volt driver had used the charger from the left hand space and parked in the right hand space. Since there was no card required, I unplugged him, setting off his alarm, and plugged it into my Spark. I plugged the charger from the right hand space into his car. If the charger had locked, I wouldn't have been able to do this.

On the other hand, somebody disconnected the charger from my car at a Chargepoint station and left it on the ground. A good reason to have a lock.

Guns are legal. I kind of like the location where my head currently resides.

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1st off, why did you bother to unplug the 1st guy ? Didn't the charger from the Right reach your car ? If so, then you should have left his plugged in and used the empty one.

How do you plan on locking a PUBLIC charger to your car ?

And isn't there some kind of etiquette about letting someone unplug to get a little juice and then plug back into you ?

I think a key contributor to the problem here is that the LEAF charging indicator is inverted compared to the Spark EV. A LEAF that's charging displays a flashing indicator light, and a solid light when the charge is complete. Since the Spark EV is exactly opposite, it's reasonable for a LEAF driver to think that a charging Spark is actually indicating charge complete. I've run into a few confused LEAF drivers at public chargers in the past due to this.

This is why I printed the card from Plug in America (http://www.pluginamerica.org/evcard) and wrote on it "Flashing green = Charge complete" and left my number to avoid confusion.

tigger19687 said:

How do you plan on locking a PUBLIC charger to your car ?

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Some J1772 handles, even on public charging stations have a small hole for a small padlock. IMHO, it's generally pretty uncool to do that, esp. if you don't plan to return to your car promptly when it finishes charging.

tigger19687 said:

And isn't there some kind of etiquette about letting someone unplug to get a little juice and then plug back into you ?

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Without contacting the driver, it's unclear what that other person's needs are. And, if the station is a pay station, that can complicate things.

And, if you unplug a Leaf w/a charging timer set, depending on how it's set, it may not restart charging until the right conditions (e.g. next start time) are met. There's no way to press the timer override (force it to charge) button w/o unlocking the car and pushing that button on the left side of the dash.

I've seen people leave their Leaf timers enabled at public charging before... they pressed override, which began charging and left their vehicle. If someone unplugs them, that someone often can't restart it.

Also, the way the Leaf's timers work is also rather quirky and not easy for me to articulate, partly because I only rarely use them or use them in a "normal" way.

I can't speak for other cars and their charging timers.

fengshui said:

I think a key contributor to the problem here is that the LEAF charging indicator is inverted compared to the Spark EV. A LEAF that's charging displays a flashing indicator light, and a solid light when the charge is complete. Since the Spark EV is exactly opposite, it's reasonable for a LEAF driver to think that a charging Spark is actually indicating charge complete. I've run into a few confused LEAF drivers at public chargers in the past due to this.

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To be more specific, it is inverted much of the time. What's listed at http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=307888#p307888 (below) is correct.

-Nissan Leaf: All three blue lights on top of dashboard are all on or are all off when charging is complete.
Decoding Leaf's triple light set: One flashing light 0-33% One solid, one flashing - 33% to 66% Two solid, one flashing - 66% to 100% Three solid - 100% All lights off - 100%

Once the Leaf finishes charging, all 3 blue lights stay on solid for 5 minutes, then they all turn off. So, if you see a Leaf in either of those states and it's plugged into a powered J1772 handle, it's done. If 1 light is flashing, it's charging (w/one exception). If you want to see the details, go to pages CH-34 and CH-35 (83 to 84 of PDF) of https://owners.nissanusa.com/content/techpub/ManualsAndGuides/LEAF/2013/2013-LEAF-owner-manual.pdf from https://owners.nissanusa.com/nowners/navigation/manualsGuide.

Pegasus said:

This is why I printed the card from Plug in America (http://www.pluginamerica.org/evcard) and wrote on it "Flashing green = Charge complete" and left my number to avoid confusion.

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Good idea! I will do print out a sign w/something similar for my Leaf and maybe also on another page indicate how to tell the other vehicles I commonly see where I charge (not at work) are done along w/keywords to Google for to find a guide to charging indicators.