Leftover 2014 Spark EV - Battery condition & life

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Buzzman

New member
Joined
Oct 18, 2014
Messages
3
I'm new to the forum and considering leasing a 2014 Spark EV. The lease incentive is considerably better on a '14 than a '15. I like the car and enjoyed driving it. I plan to get a Level 2 EVSE installed at my home. My commute is 39 miles each way, I can plug in to 110V at work if I need to, but don't want to have to depend on it. The commute is 95% freeway, 1000' vertical up & down each way, and the HOV access is a big plus. From reading what people say in here, and seeing Tony Williams' 93 mile run around coastal North County San Diego at 62 mph I'm feeling confident I can get 78 miles range out of a charge if I need to as long as I keep it at 65 mph and under. Maybe I'm too confident?

This is my question on the battery: On a 2014 that has been sitting around for a year or so since it was manufactured, and basically not driven (the cars I've looked at had 60, 90 and 130 miles on them), will the battery suffer considerable loss of storage capacity? I've read a bit on the web about calendar life and cycle life of EV batteries and the A123 nanophosphate lithum iron (LiFePO4) battery in the 2014 seems to be really good, especially with the battery conditioning system.

http://www.a123systems.com/lithium-iron-phosphate-battery.htm

http://www.gmgoelectric.com/product/public/us/en/electrification/batteries.html

Any being on the California coast temps are mild and that seems really important for calendar life. And if it was kept at a low SoC (not plugged in much, if any) that seems even better. But I'm not a chemist or an electrical engineer, and certainly not knowledgeable on the details of the design & performance of the battery. And the link above is A123's & GM's marketing material, of course they are going to say it's good! If this car looses 10% of its range I might not be able to make it back home if I don't get the parking spot near the 110V exterior outlet at work!

Does anybody know more if this is a problem I should be concerned about, or have any experience with the spark EV, or any EV, which has sat hardly used for long periods of time (like a year!)? I like this car and want it, but once I get it I can't give it back if it doesn't make the range I'm expecting (well, at least for 3 years!).

Thanks.
 
With a full charge going 65 you could do it especially if you're using cruise control. You may use a little more going, but you'll use less coming back. Also, from my own experience and what I've read from others, most people are getting higher than advertised range. I usually have between 85-90 miles on my range meter when it's full and from what I've read on here it's higher for most people. The only time it'll drop down to low 80s for me is after a lot of highway sprints (20-30 miles going like 75 the entire time, with AC). That said, I would try and see if there's anyway you could get a work charger installed or something. Basically you'll have enough range but you probably won't be able to go out for lunch unless it's in the immediate area, also you'll have to go straight home from work, probably won't have much range for errand running and whatnot. Further you have to factor in charge time. If you're coming home with only a few miles left in the tank it's gonna be a full 6+ hours til it's recharged. That will limit your options when you come home.
My school is about 20 miles from my house and I regularly do there and back trips without charging (we have charging stations but they fill up quick) and I get back with around 45 miles at least.

Basically, it's totally doable and the HOV lane is awesome to have but it's gonna take some compromise. Ideally you should see if you can get your workplace to install a charging station or at least have the spot by the plug a reserved spot for EVs. Also, the portable 120v evse will work with a extension cord even though it says you shouldn't.
 
Although our Spark EV is my daily drive DH has used it a few times to commute to work 34 miles one way, with almost 1000' elevation change, it's uphill on the way home in our case. IIRC it was saying it had 19 miles left after traveling 68.

It seems as though nearly everyone who does the math on the range comes up with numbers higher than 82. Numbers near 90 don't seem terribly unusual.

I think your plan is practical, and that the batteries used in the 2014 Spark EV may age more gracefully than some. I'd like to say I chose ours over a Leaf because of the superior battery technology, but to be honest it was the 400 ft/lbs of torque that made the sale. I'm always trying to come up with an excuse to drive mine :)

Enjoy!
 
I'm getting around 5.3 miles/kWh right now and every charge has gotten me above 100 miles or more...currently charging to 109 miles.

I have over 8500 miles on the vehicle since I leased the car back on March 17.

I drove to Ventura once at started out with over 100 miles and ended with somewhere in the high 50's or there abouts. I could have tried getting back but there is a rather steep climb on the way back over the pass on 101 where I just didn't want to take a risk...so I charged up and came back. If I remember correctly the trip back consumed 5-6 miles more.

I've driven this car more than any other IC car and take it everywhere. I'm way over my lease miles and every time I drive a regular car now I cringe. Granted, some trips I need to such as LA to SF or even San Diego. But in a few years that will be an easy option too I'm sure of it.
 
Unfortunately, a car that's been sitting on a dealer's lot for some time has likely been left at a high state of charge, as most dealers don't know or don't care that it's bad for the battery to do this. I'm a fan of LiFePO4 over the LiMN2O4 in the 2015's, plus you have the larger battery. It comes down to Dirty Harry's question, do you feel lucky?

As to your distance, you may be okay in good conditions when new, but degradation, use of the heater or headwinds, wet roads etc. and you run the risk of not making it home, or being forced to take side roads or drive at speeds well below the flow of traffic; at a minimum, you'll be reaching home with no reserve under these conditions. To avoid anxiety for at least several years, I'd say as long as you can find somewhere near work to charge even if only L1, you'll be fine, but absent that you'd have to be willing on some occasions to drive in a way that meets the car's requirements rather than yours. You need to decide if that's a compromise you're willing to make.
 
You said that you plan to lease, and I think that is always the correct answer with current generation EV's (Tesla included).

Over 3 years, you'll likely rack up the 36,000 - 45,000 miles that the lease allows (12k or 15k miles per year, respectively) and while the battery should do VERY well compared to some of its competition in regards to degradation, I would still expect 15% loss.

So, that 95-ish mile car without heating or cold weather at 62mph is now an 80 mile car. Then, there is heater use which can absolutely kill your range. Frankly, your 78 mile commute is cutting it close, but you'll only run out on the way home ;-)

Can you find ANYTHING to plug into at work? Even 120 volts? I don't think you mentioned where you live, so I can't determine how cold is might get. Cold batteries have less range, and cold batteries require power to heat up (in addition to cabin heat and defrost).

The Kia Soul EV with 27kWh battery is just getting into dealers hands now, and it appears to be a VERY solid car, with similar range to the 2014 Spark EV with larger battery (don't even consider the smaller battery 2015 Spark EV for your commute). Since you saw the video that I did for the Spark EV, maybe you should wait for the one for the Kia Soul EV. The filming is next Saturday, along with the new Mercedes B-Class ED (I just got one of those last week) and maybe the BMW i3.

There are many, many good things about the Kia that I like. If you are in an area with a lot of CHAdeMO chargers, the Kia is equipped for that. CHAdeMO is prevalent throughout western Washington state and Oregon and major metro areas of California. There aren't any prevalent areas for the Spark EV compatible DC quick charge standard.

Tell us where you are, and where you are driving to.


http://www.westcoastgreenhighway.com/pdfs/WCEH_map.pdf
 
You should be able to make that round trip, but I really don't see why you wouldn't want to plug in at work. Maybe talk to co-workers about leaving that spot open so you can plug your car in to the 120v outlet, or checkout www.plugshare.com to see if there is a local level 2 J1772 in the area. That way, you can have fun going to and from work and not be a.... watt pincher.
 
OBTW, the OP needs at least a 15k mile lease, as commuting 78 miles/day x 5 days times say 48 weeks works out to 18720 miles/year, not counting any driving for errands and such. Be sure to check out the mileage overage charge on whatever lease package you're offered, and see how much that's going to cost you at the end of the lease; with that commute I'd figure you'll probably put at least 20k miles/year on the car.

I agree with Tony that you should wait to see the results from his Soul EV test (and the B-class), although make sure that the speed he does that test at (62 mph ground speed) is representative of how you'd commute in it. The Spark may well get better range at higher speeds than the Soul, which in comparison is a proverbial brick aerodynamically. The other BEV option might be the B-class, but that's a whole different price bracket.

I disagree with Tony that there are no areas where CCS is prevalent - we're getting to that level in the SF bay area and So Cal, plus Portland/Willamette Valley, and so far they generally seem to be in better locations with greater all-hours access. But you shouldn't have to count on QC for your commute in any case. Be sure to read at least the first page's posts here,

http://www.mychevysparkev.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=3643

on who needs QCs and the different standards.
 
gra said:
OBTW, the OP needs at least a 15k mile lease, as commuting 78 miles/day x 5 days times say 48 weeks works out to 18720 miles/year, not counting any driving for errands and such. Be sure to check out the mileage overage charge on whatever lease package you're offered, and see how much that's going to cost you at the end of the lease; with that commute I'd figure you'll probably put at least 20k miles/year on the car.

If that is the case, get the unlimited mileage Toyota Rav4 EV. It's only available new for a few more weeks to maybe a month. The car ended production August 2014. What's on the dealers lots is what is available.

What you get for about $500 per month is a Compact SUV (CUV), Tesla drivetrain, the longest range in the industry EXCEPT the actual Tesla branded cars built in California, and the icing on the cake:

142 miles of range at 65mph

Yes, you read that right.

****************

http://www.myrav4ev.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=16048#p16048

Last update Oct 20, 2014. 1am

Dianne's EV deals!
I now have 22 Rav4 EVs HERE.
The last one will probably be sold in late October. For Good. Forever.

What I have left:
7 Pearl white
14 Silver
1 Blue

If these #'s change it upwards, will ONLY be because I managed to gather an extra or two somehow from another dealer.

And, here's the October special!
My deal goes thru November 3rd. Or till I'm sold out.

I have all three color choices, and all three choices are the same pricing thru 10/20.

There's $17,500 lease cash thru Nov 3.

I have a 10K lease for as low as $373-388 + tax with none of *your own* cash out of pocket (you'd front the state's 2500), and that same lease plan is about $45 more a month for UNLIMITED miles. The payments vary pretty wildly due to the sales tax varying on all that cap reduction, but it is best to call me direct at 949-689-0717 to get specifics for YOUR personal terms for your location! I am also cross-posting this to the EV Facebook page...

Unlimited mileage leases with absolutely ZERO out of your pocket, with you personally pocketing the state's $2500 are just $484-498 a month + tax (The payments vary pretty wildly due to the sales tax varying on all that cap reduction) ...

I just rolled an EV with the VIN ending in 3533 so we're winding down soon, quickly... for good! Highest VIN# I have visibility of is #3538 ... so we're pretty much done after this month for cars. Forever.

NOTE from me: we believe the highest VIN is #3538

"Dianne Whitmire" <[email protected]>
Fleet | Internet Sales Director
Carson Toyota in Sunny SoCal
949-689-0717 cell
310-522-2317 office


I agree with Tony that you should wait to see the results from his Soul EV test (and the B-class), although make sure that the speed he does that test at (62 mph ground speed) is representative of how you'd commute in it. The Spark may well get better range at higher speeds than the Soul, which in comparison is a proverbial brick aerodynamically. The other BEV option might be the B-class, but that's a whole different price bracket.


I think the Soul EV is going to be a knock out of the park. Kia seems to have SERIOUSLY looked at the class leading Nissan LEAF and made it better in seemingly every way. It uses the CHAdeMO world standard DC charge port, with many hundreds of those stations already installed on the west coast. I predict the range will be about 100 miles at 62mph (likely beating the 2014 Spark EV, and killing the 2015 Spark EV with smaller battery). It looks like every Kia dealer will have a CHAdeMO charger in the future!

The only reservation that I would currently have with this car is the cost to drive 20,000 miles per year. But, with a low enough lease payment, you can absorb some 25 cent per mile fees!!! Since a 15,000 mile lease is easy to get, you may be able to get an 18,000 mile lease, too. But, if you go over the lease limit by 5000 miles per year, that's 15,000 miles extra during the three year lease, or 15,000 * $0.25 per mile = $3750 at least turn-in.


I disagree with Tony that there are no areas where CCS is prevalent - we're getting to that level in the SF bay area and So Cal, plus Portland/Willamette Valley, and so far they generally seem to be in better locations with greater all-hours access. But you shouldn't have to count on QC for your commute in any case.


Yes, counting on the current public DC charge network (except for rock solid Tesla Superchargers) is not going to end well. You'll be frustrated, and that with CHAdeMO that has over 4000 installed around the world. I can't even think about going back to the stone age of DC charging with a GM / German car standard SAE CCS Combo1 and the whole two dozen of those deployed currently in the ENTIRE USA.

I don't really keep abreast of what "hot spots" there may be for CCS, but I do know that 200 will be installed over 4 years by NRG here in California. They've already installed some, and are upgrading their existing stations to have two CHAdeMO plugs, and one CCS. BMW will likely install the 25kW Bosch unit at some dealers, but I wouldn't count on that for a GM car.
 
I get over a 100 miles now per charge and easily get over a 100 doing an average of 60-65 no problems.

I don't think anyone has much to worry about as far as charging infrastructure goes. We are just doing fine thanks.
 
TonyWilliams said:
I predict the range will be about 100 miles at 62mph (likely beating the 2014 Spark EV, and killing the 2015 Spark EV with smaller battery).
Have you re-run your test with a 2015 Spark? I missed it if you did, and am curious. Or is this based on other testing, or is it conjecture based on the stated battery capacity? Thanks.
 
nozferatu said:
I get over a 100 miles now per charge and easily get over a 100 doing an average of 60-65 no problems.

I don't think anyone has much to worry about as far as charging infrastructure goes. We are just doing fine thanks.

Speak for yourself. 100 miles is the ideal maximum and requires using hypermiling and a very light foot. I've never gotten passed 95 because I drive the car like a normal person. Also, I would much rather have a Chademo port. It would open up way more opportunities immediately. The state of CCS is terrible in So Cal right now and every new CCS almost always has a Chademo right next to it.
 
Thank you to all for the replies! This is very helpful. Here is a bit more information

-I live in the Santa Cruz mountains just outside of Silicon Valley. It can get cold(ish) at my place. 40 F or so in winter, but I'll be plugged in to level 2 when at home. Work is in Menlo Park. It's maybe 50-60 F during the day on average there in the winter

- A can plug into level 1 at work. Just no super convient (but it's free). We are a small company who share space with others in industrial complex. Landscapers who are next door are usually in quite early and park in area near outlet. If I get in by 7 am I'm fine. I simply want to say that level 1 (at 12 A) is an option, but I don't want to rely on it all the time.

- I am o.k. going 65 mph on the freeway, much below that would be tough.

- I drive to work 3 days a week, maybe 48 weeks/yr = 11,232 miles year. I ride my motorcycle quite a bit and enjoy that. I also have an ICE car which I'm keeping.

I know the kia soul and the Rav4 EV are options, but the spark EV is just such a relatively sporty ride. I enjoyed driving it on the test drives, something I could not say of a Leaf or a Prius plug in. Plus @ $199 month +$2500 down for 12k miles/yr it is hard to get less expensive motoring.
 
Buzzman said:
Thank you to all for the replies! This is very helpful. Here is a bit more information

-I live in the Santa Cruz mountains just outside of Silicon Valley. It can get cold(ish) at my place. 40 F or so in winter, but I'll be plugged in to level 2 when at home. Work is in Menlo Park. It's maybe 50-60 F during the day on average there in the winter

- A can plug into level 1 at work. Just no super convient (but it's free). We are a small company who share space with others in industrial complex. Landscapers who are next door are usually in quite early and park in area near outlet. If I get in by 7 am I'm fine. I simply want to say that level 1 (at 12 A) is an option, but I don't want to rely on it all the time.

- I am o.k. going 65 mph on the freeway, much below that would be tough.

- I drive to work 3 days a week, maybe 48 weeks/yr = 11,232 miles year. I ride my motorcycle quite a bit and enjoy that. I also have an ICE car which I'm keeping.

I know the kia soul and the Rav4 EV are options, but the spark EV is just such a relatively sporty ride. I enjoyed driving it on the test drives, something I could not say of a Leaf or a Prius plug in. Plus @ $199 month +$2500 down for 12k miles/yr it is hard to get less expensive motoring.
Given your more detailed info, you're good to go leasing any of these cars, as you can switch off when needed. But, if you want to maximize your EV commute days, you should be able to charge at/near work. Checking Plugshare's map that shouldn't be a problem; if you don't want to use that L1 at work, Menlo Park is hard to see under all the L2 icons.

Although I expect that will change, there currently aren't any CCS on the way to 84, but if you're off 17 then Nob Hill Foods on El Camino Real in Mountain View has one should you need it, and Stevens Creek Kia is getting one (Kia is taking the high road on QCs, and installing dual standard CHAdeMO/CCS at their dealerships). The CCS at VW ERL in Belmont would make EV trips to SF easy.

Should you choose a CHAdeMO-equipped car instead, there are CHAdeMO all over the Peninsula including two in downtown Menlo Park. Have a look at plugshare if you haven't already, and be sure to go into the settings menu to select/deselect the type(s) of EVSEs/QCs you're interested in: http://www.plugshare.com/ You're in an excellent situation to use an EV.
 
Chaconzies said:
nozferatu said:
I get over a 100 miles now per charge and easily get over a 100 doing an average of 60-65 no problems.

I don't think anyone has much to worry about as far as charging infrastructure goes. We are just doing fine thanks.

Speak for yourself. 100 miles is the ideal maximum and requires using hypermiling and a very light foot. I've never gotten passed 95 because I drive the car like a normal person. Also, I would much rather have a Chademo port. It would open up way more opportunities immediately. The state of CCS is terrible in So Cal right now and every new CCS almost always has a Chademo right next to it.

Not really...I don't hypermile nor do I have a light foot. Normal in this country is being a lead-foot...why do you think people here average such abysmal mileages with what should be relatively frugal cars?? I'm averaging a great mi/kWh and in the 7 months I've owned this car I've not once had range anxiety or every dropped below 100 miles on a single charge. Right now for 2 weeks straight I've been at 105-109 miles topped off.

I'd prefer to have all ports everywhere...not one over the other.
 
nozferatu said:
I get over a 100 miles now per charge and easily get over a 100 doing an average of 60-65 no problems.

I don't think anyone has much to worry about as far as charging infrastructure goes. We are just doing fine thanks.

You're not going over 100 miles at that speed unless you're either reading that off the GOM, or going downhill at that speed.

As to charging infrastructure, with 23-ish charging locations being "fine", I guess they can stop installing them now,
 
Oberon said:
TonyWilliams said:
I predict the range will be about 100 miles at 62mph (likely beating the 2014 Spark EV, and killing the 2015 Spark EV with smaller battery).
Have you re-run your test with a 2015 Spark? I missed it if you did, and am curious. Or is this based on other testing, or is it conjecture based on the stated battery capacity? Thanks.

Conjecture... and educated guess.
 
Chaconzies said:
Also, I would much rather have a Chademo port. It would open up way more opportunities immediately. The state of CCS is terrible in So Cal right now and every new CCS almost always has a Chademo right next to it.

Our company is putting CHAdeMO ports on the Toyota RAV4 EV and Mercedes B-Class ED in 2015. I've been driving around one of my RAV4 EV's doing testing for "JdeMO" the past few weeks.

The problem, of several, with doing JdeMO to an extremely low cost car like the Spark EV is that it's unlikely folks would want to pay for it. It's a different market than the Rav and Mercedes, but the cost of development is no cheaper.

Plus, with GM only making 50-ish Spark EV's per month (which they likely will continue until either a Sonic EV shows up, or they go to hydrogen cars for CARB-ZEV compliance), I can't imagine that the total production over two - three years will be much over 1500 total cars.

We may do the BMW i3 in late 2015, however.
 
TonyWilliams said:
nozferatu said:
I get over a 100 miles now per charge and easily get over a 100 doing an average of 60-65 no problems.

I don't think anyone has much to worry about as far as charging infrastructure goes. We are just doing fine thanks.

You're not going over 100 miles at that speed unless you're either reading that off the GOM, or going downhill at that speed.

As to charging infrastructure, with 23-ish charging locations being "fine", I guess they can stop installing them now,

What I did and what you think I did are two different things...I managed over a 100 miles per charge with a few miles to spare. So it doesn't matter what your guess is to what actually happened.

And thus far, I've not had any issues with finding charging stations and/or running out of charge because stations aren't plentiful.

Clearly your experiences are not the same as mine.
 
nozferatu said:
TonyWilliams said:
nozferatu said:
I get over a 100 miles now per charge and easily get over a 100 doing an average of 60-65 no problems.

I don't think anyone has much to worry about as far as charging infrastructure goes. We are just doing fine thanks.

You're not going over 100 miles at that speed unless you're either reading that off the GOM, or going downhill at that speed.

As to charging infrastructure, with 23-ish charging locations being "fine", I guess they can stop installing them now,

What I did and what you think I did are two different things...I managed over a 100 miles per charge with a few miles to spare. So it doesn't matter what your guess is to what actually happened.

And thus far, I've not had any issues with finding charging stations and/or running out of charge because stations aren't plentiful.

Clearly your experiences are not the same as mine.

I'm not guessing. I'm going by your words. You're most certainly correct that my experiences are not the same as yours. You couldn't be more right on that.
 
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