NortBay or EastBay area owners: trade cars for a few days?

Chevy Spark EV Forum

Help Support Chevy Spark EV Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

zanzabar88

Member
Joined
Apr 27, 2015
Messages
12
I really want my wife to get a Spark EV but we're not entirely sure if it will make the commute. Her drive is about 36 miles each way and she does not have the option of charging at work. She drives from Petaluma to Berkeley every day and we just want to try out the Spark EV for maybe two full days to see if it will make the commute. I have a nearly new 2014 Ford Focus and if you are willing to lend us your Spark EV we could let you use our Focus? Perhaps you have a road trip that wouldn't be possible in the Spark? Anyway, just a thought. Let me know. Maybe one of the dealers around here would be willing to give us an extended test drive?
 
I don't see that working. That's 72 miles of almost all freeway, waaaay too close for comfort. And forget using heater or air conditioning! How's she feel about that?
 
ExtensionCord said:
I don't see that working. That's 72 miles of almost all freeway, waaaay too close for comfort. And forget using heater or air conditioning! How's she feel about that?

I concur. 72 miles is cutting it way too close.

I've found the "80 miles of range" to be under ideal conditions. No AC/heat. No uphills, no mashing the accelerator to get on the freeway and keeping it at 55mph.

Realistically, for freeway driving I'd say 60 miles is the max.

That said, if you're driving to Berkley every day I find it hard to believe there's no way to charge it there. Even 8 hours at a wall outlet should give you plenty of juice to get home.
 
It's ok if it's close but 95% of the time attainable. Temps are so moderate here that she won't mind not having heat or cool most days. But that's just it, will it work or not? We keep reading reports of 100+ mile range in perfect conditions, 80 under tough conditions, very few of less than that unless you are really trying to use up the battery. Do I have this wrong?
 
sv650john said:
That said, if you're driving to Berkley every day I find it hard to believe there's no way to charge it there. Even 8 hours at a wall outlet should give you plenty of juice to get home.

It IS hard to believe, isn't it? She works at UC-B and still the parking situation there is so dismal that there aren't any locations for her to park next to a plug and still walk less than a mile to her building on campus. Shameful for such a "progressive" city and campus to be this situation.
 
sv650john said:
I concur. 72 miles is cutting it way too close.

I've found the "80 miles of range" to be under ideal conditions. No AC/heat. No uphills, no mashing the accelerator to get on the freeway and keeping it at 55mph.

Realistically, for freeway driving I'd say 60 miles is the max.

Mostly she is driving in traffic at slowish speeds, very little if any open road freeway at 70mph. I'm guessing this is where the EV will excel?

We're exploring other parking ideas, maybe we can dig up a place to plug it in while she's working. If that's the case, then getting a Spark EV is a no-brainer.
 
zanzabar88 said:
sv650john said:
I concur. 72 miles is cutting it way too close.

I've found the "80 miles of range" to be under ideal conditions. No AC/heat. No uphills, no mashing the accelerator to get on the freeway and keeping it at 55mph.

Realistically, for freeway driving I'd say 60 miles is the max.

Mostly she is driving in traffic at slowish speeds, very little if any open road freeway at 70mph. I'm guessing this is where the EV will excel?

We're exploring other parking ideas, maybe we can dig up a place to plug it in while she's working. If that's the case, then getting a Spark EV is a no-brainer.
She may be able to make it, but inevitably there will be days when she'll need to charge. On the positive side, there is a CCS charger at the Whole Foods on Gilman just below San Pablo Avenue, but you'd have to hope it's both working and not in use when she wanted it on the way home, or else eat/shop for a while until it's available. There are also CCS chargers in San Rafael and Novato along 101- see http://www.plugshare.com/ , and follow the directions found here, http://www.mychevysparkev.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=3643

in my and Nashco's posts on the first page, to view the CCS chargers. The downside is that NRG chargers are quite expensive per kWh (considerably more than gas at the moment), although she'd only be topping up a few kWh and doing the rest of her charging at home. Bottom line, it can be made to work, but she'd have to be willing to put up with the occasional inconvenience, and that inconvenience will increase as the battery ages. The fact that I-80 and 101 are often parking lots during morning and evening commutes will help, although she'd be able to use the HOV lanes on both. Even so, ISTR that the HOV lanes are often moving at only 45-55 mph, which will considerably boost the car's range. Rain/wind/heater/defroster use will lower it.

For a hassle-free commute, I'd recommend a Volt or other PHEV which will allow you to get a green HOV sticker (for a few months yet), even though you'll still be burning some gas (if you find a place to charge during the day, maybe not). If she can find someplace to get a guaranteed L2 charge (maybe even L1) in Berkeley during work hours, then the Spark will be fine, but lease rather than buy in any case, as she really wants a longer range BEV for that commute. Plugshare does show four public L2 EVSEs within walking distance of UCB, the question is whether you can guarantee that a spot will be available at them. You should find the sites and have her check out the one(s) most convenient for her to see how busy they are.

Alternatively, opt for a Soul EV or maybe an e-Golf, or else wait a year or so until the longer range 'affordable' BEVs start to arrive, because you really want a car that will allow the whole round trip to be done on one charge year round for many years, without worry.
 
Drive 60 MPH max, and you'll be able to easily achieve this range. Just leave the AC/heat off and you'll be fine.
 
Is 60mph sort of the threshold for efficiency?

What are the temperature thresholds for efficiency, does it just have to be at least 50deg or so before you notice the cold hurting kW/mile?

Sorry if this has already been discussed a million times.
 
zanzabar88 said:
Is 60mph sort of the threshold for efficiency?

What are the temperature thresholds for efficiency, does it just have to be at least 50deg or so before you notice the cold hurting kW/mile?

Sorry if this has already been discussed a million times.
60 mph isn't a threshold, it's just that any amount you slow down (down to ludicrously low speeds) will be more efficient. For example, the LEAF's max. efficiency is at a constant 12 mph, which no one is going to do voluntarily (although one LEAF owner set what's still the distance record for one, 188 miles averaging a bit over 18 mph).

As to temperature, the only thresholds are related to battery heating (on/off) and the point at which a BEV switches from a heat pump (if equipped) to a resistive heater. I don't remember if the Spark offers a heat pump, but in the Bay Area climate you definitely want one if available, because it will never get cold enough to require the car to use the much less efficient resistive heater. When the winter temp drops into the mid-teens or below, a heat pump isn't going to help you at such times, but that's not an issue here.

Other losses due to cold are linear, due to things like thicker air increasing drag, the temporary decrease in battery capacity due to temp, changes in the hardness of the rubber compounds in your tires, and wet roads. Use or non-use of the heater and defroster are the biggest non-linear factors under the control of the driver. How willing is your wife to use Heat/Defrost intermittently (requiring lots of switching on and off) or do without, and put up with less than comfortable temps by wearing extra clothes instead? Heated seats may or may not be enough; women are more susceptible to cold than men, and their willingness to put up with limitations on heater use correspondingly less.

Personally, for year-round no-anxiety commutes over at least 3, preferably 5 and possibly up to 10 years, I believe a BEV in a mild winter climate like ours needs a minimum of 50% more EPA range than the un-recharged range of the commute. Thus for 72 miles between charges, you want 72 x 1.5 = 108 miles or more of EPA range (Note that the amount of city versus highway driving in the commute can alter the requirement considerably, as some cars are more efficient at highway speeds than others which have a greater combined range in the five-cycle EPA test). The only non-Tesla that's currently for sale new which approaches that 108 mile EPA range is the Mercedes-Benz B-class, but it's real-world range seems to be well under what people are getting with nominally shorter range cars. [Edit]: Here's a useful thread for you, reporting a SJ-Monterey 72 mile drive in a B-class: http://www.mybclasselectricdrive.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=286
The now-discontinued RAV4 EV would meet the requirement with ease, and finding a used one may be possible, although the reliability (of their Tesla-supplied components) has been a bit spotty.

Hard-core enthusiasts may be able to get by with only 25 or 33% excess range, by using the techniques described above. For those whose winter temps drop into the teens to about zero, 100% excess range is probably a good idea, and for sub-zero temps, something over 100% excess is called for.
 
Up here in Canada, driving in 20 - 24F temperatures, my range drops to about 70 miles or so. The battery chemistry in the Spark really favors the higher temperatures.
 
I go from Half Moon Bay to Napa all the time under different conditions. It's about 78 miles. I have made it with 14 miles to spare, and I have made it with just a few. I have found 70 mile range to be worst case, and even then, I have a few miles left. At 52 degrees and doing 65-70mph, you'll get about 72-74 miles. At 70 degrees and a little traffic, you can get over 90. My average is really in the 82 range, all around. Petaluma to Berkeley is a lot of highway, but the reality is that there's always traffic. I think you'd make it just fine. There's a guy on here that lives in Santa Cruz and drives to Fremont, I believe it was, every day. 80 miles - with going up and down 17 thru the SC Mtns. If I lived closer, I'd trade you, no problem.
 
ezryder said:
I go from Half Moon Bay to Napa all the time under different conditions. It's about 78 miles. I have made it with 14 miles to spare, and I have made it with just a few. I have found 70 mile range to be worst case, and even then, I have a few miles left. At 52 degrees and doing 65-70mph, you'll get about 72-74 miles. At 70 degrees and a little traffic, you can get over 90. My average is really in the 82 range, all around. Petaluma to Berkeley is a lot of highway, but the reality is that there's always traffic. I think you'd make it just fine. There's a guy on here that lives in Santa Cruz and drives to Fremont, I believe it was, every day. 80 miles - with going up and down 17 thru the SC Mtns. If I lived closer, I'd trade you, no problem.
Remember that your car is still new. Give the battery a year or two of degradation and you'll be struggling to make trips you can easily do now.
 
I also live in Half Moon Bay (hi ezyryder!). my commute to SF is 68 miles round trip with about 5000 ft of climbing. 50/50 city and hwy, no charging at work. I have 26k miles on my black Spark EV. I usually have 20 miles or so left on the battery when I get home. I get about 5 mi/kWh on this route.

I say your wife can do this, but I would find a charge at work for peace of mind. Even a 110v outlet with an extension cord would make all the difference. The DCS offers that safety also. Worst case is that she has to stop somewhere on the way home for 30-45 mins to top off. At 3.3kw, I figure the car gains about 7-8 miles of range every 30 minutes. That's the safety margin she needs.

I'm also a folding bike fan. Sometimes I put one in the Spark, park at a charger, and ride a couple of miles to my destination. It's the perfect combo.
 
Jay,

Your best bet would be the CCS at Northgate Shopping Center.
I drove by today to verify that it was working.
It is and was occupied by an i3.

There are 20 level 2 chargers at the San Rafael Target but the charge rate is only 12 miles per hour.

I assume she's not taking 37.

Martin
 
I used the Fast Charger at Whole Foods in Berkeley last week and it worked great. No waiting.
 
Sesamecrunch said:
I also live in Half Moon Bay (hi ezyryder!). my commute to SF is 68 miles round trip with about 5000 ft of climbing. 50/50 city and hwy, no charging at work. I have 26k miles on my black Spark EV. I usually have 20 miles or so left on the battery when I get home. I get about 5 mi/kWh on this route. <snip>
Judging by your mileage you have a 2014, which has a larger battery and a taller final drive ratio than the 2015, and as a result gets better range at highway cruising speeds. The 2015 is lighter and, with a shorter final drive ratio, is more efficient around town. IIRR, when Tony Williams tested both on his standardized 62 mph constant speed freeway range test, the 2014 went around 96 miles, and the 2015 89 miles. Both are to empty, which is not something you'd do routinely as most people require a reserve.
 
@NomadMac - great minds think alike hey Martin!

We're still going back and forth about this. My wife wants to wait another couple years and get an EV with better range. I can't argue too much against that idea, but I really do like the "Spark now!" idea too. Currently we're looking to see if we can find a reliable parking space with a plug. I think just having the slow charger plugged in while she's at work is the ideal situation. But that requires an absolutely reliable reserved parking space for her, which is hard to find in Berkeley.
 
zanzabar88 said:
My wife wants to wait another couple years and get an EV with better range.
I was thinking the same thing, but got a great lease deal of $85/mo, including taxes, with, in essence, $450 down. Even with $360 shipping from SoCal, the car is literally a free car, when you subtract the gas savings. In fact, I will likely make money on the car over the course of 3 years - including PG&E, insruance, EVSE install, etc. etc. I've done the math and at current gas prices, it's dead even. Free car. So... why not!? It'll be three years, realistically, before the magical 200 mile range cars come out.
 
Back
Top