To trade in Spark or not?

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stevon

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 8, 2015
Messages
121
Location
San Diego
I have a 2015 Spark EV with DCFC CCS option. Purchased the car while I was a foot loose bachelor but things have changed. Looks like I'll be married next spring with an instant family to boot. Don't get me wrong, I love my Spark but a new life style and a few charging incidents have made me consider trading in the Spark for a PHEV. With the Spark at it's highest trade in price now and my $10K tax break (I qualify) I could do that today for a Ford Fusion Energi or Plug in Toyota Prius or 2015 Honda Accord (discontinued this year).
pure EV only mode range for available PHEVs:

Cmax energi - 19 miles
Fusion energi - 19 miles
Prius PHEV - 11 miles
Accord PHEV - 11 miles
Sonata PHEV - 27 miles (not available yet)
Volt ver 1 - 38 miles
Volt ver 2 - 53 miles

I still want at least some EV only mode. Any advice?
 
Hi Stevon, congrats and all that...Have you looked at the "compare EV's" chart on
http://www.insideevs.com? It compares many of the EV specifications such as EV miles vs. total miles (ev + gas capacity range), 0-60 times (you'll probably want that info after driving the Spark), and much more. It doesn't compare the other "common" features such as # of doors, cargo room, etc. And it's updated regularly.
It looks like the Volt would be your best option if getting lots of clean EV miles is high on the agenda. I haven't driven one, though.
Can you please elaborate on the "charging incidents" (No guns, hopefully)

Dave
 
Dave,
Thanks for the link will be sure to check it out! As far as problems, once someone hooked their car on the EVSE cable on My Spark because they were parked in an EV charging spot, (not their fault spots aren't marked "EV only") when they pulled out they destroyed my J1772 connector on the car! No note or apology either, Also Tesla, Leaf, 500e and others in public unplugging me because they think Spark EV solid charge light means "its done" like in their cars, My fiancée having to give me rides to charge site every other day, Getting stuck without juice 300 yards down hill from a friends house and having to get towed, threats at my job for charging at work (congressional order). if you look for posts under "STEVON" in this forum, you will get a better knowledge of my experiences
Stephen

dangerHV said:
Hi Stevon, congrats and all that...Have you looked at the "compare EV's" chart on
http://www.insideevs.com? It compares many of the EV specifications such as EV miles vs. total miles (ev + gas capacity range), 0-60 times (you'll probably want that info after driving the Spark), and much more. It doesn't compare the other "common" features such as # of doors, cargo room, etc. And it's updated regularly.
It looks like the Volt would be your best option if getting lots of clean EV miles is high on the agenda. I haven't driven one, though.
Can you please elaborate on the "charging incidents" (No guns, hopefully)

Dave
 
Thanks, stevon. I have read about most of these incidents, but didn't realize this...batch was all yours. Sorry you had so much frustration over such a relatively short period of time.

David
 
David,
Thanks, city life I guess...
dangerHV said:
Thanks, stevon. I have read about most of these incidents, but didn't realize this...batch was all yours. Sorry you had so much frustration over such a relatively short period of time.

David
 
From over here on the east coast, we think of San Diego as like a beautiful park more than a city. Maybe we're just expanding on the beautiful weather you are known for.

Dave
 
That is true about the weather out here. Tourism is a big part of the economy here. I've been in SoCal for 13 years without using heat or air conditioning! worked in Manhattan for a few years as an IT consultant in a "real city" New York. San Diego reminds me of my first 41 years living in Northern NJ suburbs. Can't say I miss the snow or weather changes there though. The BEV problems and limitations are pushing me to a more logical practical vehicle, maybe a few other folks as well?
dangerHV said:
From over here on the east coast, we think of San Diego as like a beautiful park more than a city. Maybe we're just expanding on the beautiful weather you are known for.

Dave
 
How much of your problems or challenges relate to not being able to charge at home? I can't imagine not charging each night at the garage. It would be a completely different experience for me.
 
Zoomit,
For one thing I live in an apartment with several other tenants. Even if it is possible (not always) to get close enough to plug in, Its a real pain navigating and clearing the other cars in the driveway.
another part of my motivation to charge away from home is by arranging for free charging, for me break even cost would be achieved in 6 years for TCO including, maintenance(tires, brakes, etc.) and gas (juice). So when I trade it in for a BOLT or Tesla Gen3 car or whatever. My plan could ease the pain of money lost and the inconvenience of short range BEV use.
The other problem is the SDG&E rate rape. "the more you use the higher your base rate becomes" The added load home charging can double and even triple your monthly bill. Once you hit a certain threshold (I'm still researching the exact KWH amount) you are kicked into a higher household base rate. At peak use time (we have wireless household "smart meters", they know when and how much you use) your bill can go up to $0.48 per Kwh! I have not surpassed the threshold level and plan not to!
See http://www.sdge.com/clean-energy/ev-rates (very confusing calculation)

Stephen

Zoomit said:
How much of your problems or challenges relate to not being able to charge at home? I can't imagine not charging each night at the garage. It would be a completely different experience for me.
 
Sounds like you're in a hard spot. We switched to the SoCal Edison Time of Use rate when we got the Spark and our electricity bill has gone down. That has been an unexpected surprise.
 
Zoomit said:
Sounds like you're in a hard spot. We switched to the SoCal Edison Time of Use rate when we got the Spark and our electricity bill has gone down. That has been an unexpected surprise.

We did the same and ended up net producers of electricity for our net metering billing year (solar panels). I got a check from SoCalEd. Our Spark EV has never been charged anywhere except at home. For the billing year before our Spark EV we owed them money.
 
Finally found the PHEV I want, The Golf GTE
VW-Golf-GTE-charging.jpg

There was a wagon version seen in San Francisco: http://insideevs.com/volkswagen-golf-gte-plug-hybrid-station-wagon-spotted-san-francisco/
gol-gte-wagon-750x549.jpg

Reviews/Videos
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2015-volkswagen-golf-gte-review
http://www.autoblog.com/2015/10/09/2016-volkswagen-golf-gte-first-drive-review/
http://www.cnet.com/videos/part-hot-hatch-part-eco-car-2015-volkswagen-golf-gte/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=QytLehr8pRE#t=37
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=US5lFYY20n8

Specs as follows:

Propulsion 150hp four-cyl gasoline engine
EV Power 102hp electric motor
Total Power 204hp (electric vs ICE HP is different and doesn't add up 1 to 1)
Transmission DQ400E six-speed dual-clutch auto
CO2 emissions 35g/km (Europe)
Drivetrain Front-wheel drive
0-60mph 7.6 seconds
Top speed 135mph (81mph in e-mode)
Seats 5
Cargo volume 14.2 cu. ft.
Electric range 31 miles
Range total 580 miles
240V charge* 3.5 hours
Fuel efficiency 188mpg (Europe)
Regional Availability Europe (not in USA) :(
MSRP $39,000 est.
Release Date August 2014

Finally find a car I want but it's not available here, they are selling well in Europe. After Vdub's Diesel debacle I think they need another green image car to sell here!

stevon said:
I have a 2015 Spark EV with DCFC CCS option. Purchased the car while I was a foot loose bachelor but things have changed. Looks like I'll be married next spring with an instant family to boot. Don't get me wrong, I love my Spark but a new life style and a few charging incidents have made me consider trading in the Spark for a PHEV. With the Spark at it's highest trade in price now and my $10K tax break (I qualify) I could do that today for a Ford Fusion Energi or Plug in Toyota Prius or 2015 Honda Accord (discontinued this year). other considerations:
pure EV only mode range for available PHEVs:

Fusion Energi - 19 miles
Prius PHEV - 11 miles
Accord PHEV - 11 miles
Sonata PHEV - 27 miles (not available yet)
Volt ver 1 - 38 miles
Volt ver 2 - 53 miles

I still want at least some EV only mode. Any advice?
 
I think among the many reasons not to import the GTE to the US is that they are already bringing in the Audi A3 e-tron with the same drive train which has a higher potential for profit. Why decide to dilute a limited market with a competing car? The argument "to be nice guys and make less profit" probably doesn't go over well at stockholder meetings in Wolfsburg.
Stephen
 
Found out that the Audi A3 E-tron and Golf GTE respectively get about the same EV range of 21 miles in the real world, basically the same as the C-Max or Fusion Energi. So there is no reason to pay the premium for a euro car! The A3 and GTE range of 31 EV only miles seems to be exaggerated in Europe due to their testing methods. Checked out the 2016 VOLT ,it looks great still is a tad too small for my needs.
 
stevon said:
a tad too small for my needs.
It's too bad the Chrysler EPIC minivan wasn't brought to market. (http://insideevs.com/chrysler-epic-electric-van-circa-1999-video/)
Perhaps the current EV resurgence may bring us one now? If in 1999 they got 80-90mi on NiMH, imagine how much you'd get with LiIon today! (I'd estimate about double.)
 
Pegasus,
If I had a gagle of kids or volunteered to do the church driving I might be in the market for a minivan, but I still want a somewhat "sexy" car after owning the 95 NSX for 10 years. I'm thinking used Fusion Energi Titanium, red body, tan gut, sunroof, etc. FOR A PHEV, they sold at lot of these :)

Pegasus said:
stevon said:
a tad too small for my needs.
It's too bad the Chrysler EPIC minivan wasn't brought to market. (http://insideevs.com/chrysler-epic-electric-van-circa-1999-video/)
Perhaps the current EV resurgence may bring us one now? If in 1999 they got 80-90mi on NiMH, imagine how much you'd get with LiIon today! (I'd estimate about double.)
 
Like most hot and heavy affairs longevity......... Old Italian mentor says "Goes a fas, dona a las"
My venture into BEV ownership has ended, at least for now. Traded in the faithful Spark for a Ford Fusion Energi Titanium model. Loaded with sun roof, Keyless Start, Heated and Cooled power Leather Seats, ceramic color interior, Back-Up Camera, Ford my "SYNC", Hands-free calling, Active park assist, Driver assist package, Navigation, Adaptive cruise control, on and on.... Does everything but wipe my butt! What a game changer, Sub compact econo box to a Jaguar saloon!
Spent about a month debating and searching for the right Fusion Energi for me. With Black Friday "Friends and Neighbors" incentives going on this weekend, locked down a deal and closed. See a similar car here:
http://ranchofordtemecula.com/Southern-California/For-Sale/New/Ford/Fusion/2016-Energi-Titanium-Gray-Car/44557113/
Negotiated my best deal online and was able to get a quote that worked for me in writing at Sunrise Ford in Fontana, CA. No ford dealer in San Diego was willing to do that. Sunrise did that for me and I was able to find a car that I wanted in stock. Drove my Spark EV to it's limit from Mission Hills to Temecula (75miles) and planned to recharge there before the last leg to Fontana. I was charging Spark EV at the Gosch Ford dealer in Temecula. They had Fusion Energi models in stock, while waiting, browsed their inventory and found a model I liked. Negotiated with them and with a written offer in hand, got an even better deal than Sunrise was willing to do. It saved me 4 more hours of waiting for re-charge to complete and a 50 mile trip north!
This was a great deal of work to get a great deal on a Fusion Energi Titanium w/wanted color, options, trade in Spark EV, pay off loan ($27,700) and keep the same payments + $34 on lease as the loan! Quite a process, no compromises, finished, done. I'm happy with my deal, no buyers doubt like on the Spark EV purchase.
The way I see it I didn't really get burned too bad financially and limited my losses
$ 28,000 Paid initially
$ -7,500 Fed tax incentives for Spark 2015
$ -2,500 State tax incentives for Spark 2015
$-13,500 Trade in
NET______________________________
$ 4500 loss for 7 months use or $642.86 a month
$17,280 New $0 down, closed lease cost to me ($480 x 36) or $480.00 a month
Of course I had to pay the losses up front $15k . Will get my income taxes done on time for the first time for 2015 with the rebate motivation!
 
I don't think you qualify for the state EV incentive since you don't satisfy the 30 month ownership requirement.
 
ImTedBell
I don't have to wait 7.5 years to receive a rebate for a 2015 car do I? doesn't sound right to me, will look into it
ImTedBell said:
I don't think you qualify for the state EV incentive since you don't satisfy the 30 month ownership requirement.
 
You don't have to wait 7.5 years. The rebate had a stipulation of minimum ownership length.

As always, there is the policy and what they actually do in practice.

Rebate recipients who do not retain the eligible vehicle for the full 30-month ownership or lease period will be required to reimburse ARB all or part of
the original rebate amount.
-Vehicle purchaser or lessee is required to notify the Administrator to arrange for early termination of vehicle ownership in advance of intent to
sell or terminate a lease prior to the required 30-month ownership period.
-ARB will periodically check vehicle identification numbers with vehicle registrations to ensure that CVRP applicants meet this requirement. If
an applicant violates this requirement, ARB or its designee reserves the right to recoup CVRP funds from the original vehicle purchaser
identified on the rebate application form and may pursue other remedies available under the law
 
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