Extreme Condensation Issues - Interior of Windshield

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amphibious

Member
Joined
Jul 8, 2015
Messages
8
Hey Everyone,

I'm a Portland-based Spark EV owner, got it in August and have really enjoyed driving it for the last few months... that is, until the weather started to get slightly cold.

The last couple weeks have had highs in the 60s and lows in the 40s, with that range now falling to highs in the 50s and lows in the 40s.

In the morning the inside of the windshield is completely covered with condensation, just as much as the outside of the car. I have to completely wipe the inside with a microfiber cloth (which is completely drenched when done), because when the car starts moving it will cover the dash in water.

At all times/temperatures, the interior of the car immediately fogs up within 5 minutes to the point of not being able to see anything, without constantly running the climate control.

I've never experienced anything like this before in the 8 cars I've previously owned, it's so extreme that it seems like a defect.

Can't find any other posts on the forum about it.

Anyone else experiencing it?

Any solutions?

Thanks!
 
Very strange. I live in PDX as well, and park my Spark outside. I haven't had moisture problems to that extent at all, no different than any of the ICE vehicles I had previously. I have never had to use a towel for sure. I remote start in the morning before work to preheat and defog while still plugged in, and the Windows are clear when I leave. I leave the seat heater on, and the heat off. On my commute from the inner east side to work in Gresham, I need to turn the windshield defroster on three or four times but it clears the "fogging" very quickly.

That said, the combination of colder temperatures and even minimal use of heating/defogging has had a much greater impact on range than fairly heavy use of AC use over the hottest days of summer. It seems counter intuitive when one is accustomed to driving an ICE vehicle, where heat is provided easily due to wasted energy from the combustion process, and cooling is a significant draw.

If you are experiencing actual dripping, towel worthy condensation rather than simple fogging, I personally don't consider that normal, and would suggest a warranty covered service visit.
 
Nearly every morning Lil' Sparky is covered with dew. Shortly after starting it up, the inside starts to fog but a short run of the defroster (button between temp and mode dials) clears things up in a minute or two. If that isn't working for you, either your windows are down or you might have a leak somewhere, probably around the windshield. One tell tail sign of a leak is a moldy smell or damp carpets. Or maybe you're hopping out of the shower and into the car without enough time to thoroughly dry off. That moisture condensing on the inside has to come from somewhere.

Let us know what you find out, OK?
 
amphibious said:
Hey Everyone,

I'm a Portland-based Spark EV owner, got it in August and have really enjoyed driving it for the last few months... that is, until the weather started to get slightly cold.

The last couple weeks have had highs in the 60s and lows in the 40s, with that range now falling to highs in the 50s and lows in the 40s.

In the morning the inside of the windshield is completely covered with condensation, just as much as the outside of the car. I have to completely wipe the inside with a microfiber cloth (which is completely drenched when done), because when the car starts moving it will cover the dash in water.

At all times/temperatures, the interior of the car immediately fogs up within 5 minutes to the point of not being able to see anything, without constantly running the climate control.

I've never experienced anything like this before in the 8 cars I've previously owned, it's so extreme that it seems like a defect.

Can't find any other posts on the forum about it.

Anyone else experiencing it?

Any solutions?

Thanks!

I had this problem after rain last year - it turned out that there was a misplaced grommet in the right rear tail-light and water was running down the wire to the passenger floor. This would cause extreme condensation in the car.

I haven't seen the problem since then, although the weather conditions haven't been the same. I'm in the SF bay area.

kevin
 
I'm in Portland and park outside, I see no such issues. As Kevin said, it may be time to start looking for a leak, pull up the mats and see if there is water somewhere in the interior. You need to get on this before you get mold or mildew going.
 
I agree, sounds like you have a leak. I had the same symptoms with our Leaf a few years back, ended up being the urethane windshield seal. Dealer service techs were hesitant to believe it, but eventually confirmed and repaired it. It took three visits to the dealer, each time with incrementally worse moisture in the car. Once the carpet was soaked, they started taking it much more serious!

If suggest taking it to the dealer to see if they can find something obvious.

Bryce
 
I am seeing similar behavior on my Spark EV. The only thing I've done is apply a cloth treatment for water repellency to the seats.

I took some time-lapse videos (https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLdwf7MLSe44yFlUxwe-yo81JI9XkbFwwU) and I think I can trace it down to when there is clear skies (high atmospheric pressure) and cold. In this section https://youtu.be/Ha_RlmWnDM0?t=16s, the car has built up condensation but then it starts dissipating as soon as a low-pressure rain cloud moves in. It dissipates **before** the rain arrives, which is pretty cool. During the first few videos, the driver-side carpet was a bit wet, so I will record some more without that effect.
NOTE: It's ambiguous from the video whether the condensation is on the inside or the outside. Maybe by looking at the reflection of something off of the windshield I could have recorded it, but I no longer have the issue. See my post later on: http://www.mychevysparkev.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=17716#p17716

I took it to a dealer yesterday, and the computer is telling them that the recirc/fresh air vents are doing what they are supposed to do. Now to figure out what they're **really** supposed to do...
 
Still having the issue. There is no moisture anywhere else, no wet carpets, and no misplaced grommets (at least according to the dealership).

I took it in once for this issue and they couldn't find anything. Took it in again for the recall and still nothing.

It's only a winter problem, but it's extremely annoying. Overall, this car's ability to have foggy windows is pretty astonishing.
 
If you don't have a water leak, a big question: are you running the climate control in Auto mode, or do you shut it off?

I'd bet money that if you use it the way it is intended, you won't have the problem. My guess is based on your comment: "At all times/temperatures, the interior of the car immediately fogs up ... without constantly running the climate control."

Here's your problem: if you don't run the climate control, there is no fresh air coming into the car at all, thus, when you sit in it and exhale nice moist air, you are injecting water into the cabin, and it stays inside and condenses. If you leave the car with moist air in it at night, you will find the moisture on the inside of the windows. If you drive around with recirc on or climate control off, you are keeping all that moisture (more than 12 oz./day/person) inside the car.

As I understand it, the climate control uses recirculation to save energy, but also manages it to control condensation.

Bottom line: leave the climate control in Auto, and set the Temp to choose your temperature.
 
I don't usually use the Climate Control and my windows do often fog up. It's to be expected since moisture from your breath will condense on the cold windows. I usually just crack the passenger side windows and that clears everything within a minute at highway speed.

If you're having this issue with the Climate Control running, then their is some other issue. Maybe a leak or your climate control is stuck in recirculation mode.
 
Why on earth would you ever turn off the climate control?
Unless you are heating, it uses minimal energy, and it will keep your windows from fogging. There is no good reason to turn it off, unless you are simply being masochistic.
 
EldRitch said:
Why on earth would you ever turn off the climate control?
..... There is no good reason to turn it off, ..
I may understand the thinking.
I used to be a fresh air fanatic back when I drove gassers. (and they have 'free heat',, all you can handle, they waste +70% energy on waste heat)
Now it's like, "Who want's breath those farts from the cars in front of me?". (and heat up outside air if you don't have to..)
So I end up cycling back and forth between recirc and fresh. As soon as the fogging begins I have to switch to outside air for a while. Then back to recirc.

OCD, I know, but it's hard not to be 'self-righteous' driving an EV.... :roll:

Hey, one tech way of measuring if your car has unusual humidity is to put one of these in the closed car and compare it to outside conditions:
https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B00JXOKQVW/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_nS_ttl?_encoding=UTF8&colid=1TZ8CG5XM0KUG&coliid=I21Y47D70EQ49O

There are cheaper versions. This small one has uses in 'other' businesses. :mrgreen:

EDIT: Also I pull out my 'carpet scrap' floor mats when they have been wet for days. I bring them in the house overnight. See how wet you floor mats are.
 
EldRitch said:
Why on earth would you ever turn off the climate control?
Unless you are heating, it uses minimal energy, and it will keep your windows from fogging. There is no good reason to turn it off, unless you are simply being masochistic.

I might be able to keep the heat on to/from work in the winter and have enough range, but it would be very tight. So, it's rare that I use the heat. Have been doing the same thing for 5+ years in my Volt, so I'm used to it. A warm coat and seat heat are fine for me even down to 10F.

Given that I don't use the heat, if I turn on the fan it's just going to blow cold air at me. So, I leave the whole system off and just crack the passenger side windows for a minute to clear the windows if they get fogged. Again, I've been doing this for years in the Volt, so no big deal to me.
 
Forgot to mention - with climate control On, turn the Fan speed down to one bar and moderate heat, because less intake air flow means less cold air being heated.
The condensation won't occur and you won't use much juice, but will be a Lot more comfortable...
 
TLDR: Make sure "fresh air" mode is on and remove the cabin air filter from behind the glovebox and let the whole air circulation system sit exposed to outside air for a while. My issue seems to have gone away for a reason I can't quite understand yet...

I did some more research, and decided to inspect the air filter behind the glove box on the passenger side. To remove the glove box, you push in on the sides of it to release the bumpers, then pull straight out. After removing the filter and finding it dry, I then inspected the recirculation door behind the filter to make sure it was operating correctly and not like http://www.cruzetalk.com/forum/25-g...e-condensation-frost-windows.html#post1666193. Interestingly, in Defrost mode the door stays open (fresh air) even if you have recirculate set...not sure how I feel about that!

Seeing no problems there, I tested the state of the door when I turned the car off. It appears to be set to "fresh air" like I expected, but I couldn't figure out the "direction" of the air afterwards (although I suspect feet from turning off the car while the defrost fans are running). Then...I just let it sit overnight with the filter removed. The windshield was already building up moisture when I removed it, but by the morning and every reasonably condensing morning since then (even putting the filter back and closing the door) there's been no sign of condensation!

So, assuming this keeps going...what's the cause? Some data points:
* I haven't been using the heat at all and just doing enough A/C to keep the windshield unfogged when driving so very little opportunity for evaporation
* I saw 98% of the condensation on the front windshield, and the 2% was on the front side windows, never the back windows.
* There was a good bit of condensation, maybe 1-2 tablespoons.
* Really hard/impossible to get water into fresh air intake, even when you pour water down it. Nice trick GM! I'll look into that someday...
* Other cars in driveway have similar dew points in cabin area the night before (~34F).
My theories:
* The air filter is stopping fresh air from getting in overnight?!? Seems unlikely as other cars probably have similar cabin air filters
* Water buildup that is in the air distribution system and evaporates and condenses on the windshield?
Now that the issue might be fixed for me, I'm finding I'm a lot less motivated to figure it out why it's fixed :oops: I'm interested in hearing how it goes for you Amphibious!
 
So, it's happening again tonight. So much for that idea!

Clear skies, I will leave the flap open and make sure it helps...
 
Are you sure your floor mats are not wet? Bring them in over night and point a fan at them.

Those battery-powered Temp/Humidity displays are cheap, just to confirm your car is not a tropical green house.
 
Good points Norton.

* Floor mats: Yes, the drivers side one is dry. I will check the other ones for dampness. However, if they were, I would expect an even distribution of moisture around the car, whereas this is only on the windshield basically.
* I am using one to test for temp/humidity and computing dew point. It definitely doesn't feel like a green house in there!
 
After doing some more tests, it's appearing that the "TEMP" button (which turns on the AC and more?? heater power) is causing the issue.

When TEMP is on, moisture from the cabin is condensing and gathering at the AC evaporator, but for some reason it isn't draining out from there on my Spark. When the car is off, it evaporates and tends to condense on the windshield (for various reasons) on a cold night.

More to come, but as a workaround turn up the heat (you don't have to use the TEMP button to get heat, despite what the manual says) to get the existing moisture out of the evaporator area and avoid using the TEMP button from then on.
 
The temp button isn't an issue, it's a symptom. What your problem really is a lack of drain. All AC units feature a drain for the purpose of removing water from the evaporator since it's almost always at a lower temperature than the local dew point. You need to inspect the drain line and make sure it isn't clogged, kinked, or improperly installed.
 
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