MrDRMorgan
Posts: 1157
Joined: Wed Oct 30, 2013 7:27 am
Location: Manteca in Central California

Re: 7500 tax credit going away asap

Fri Nov 03, 2017 8:44 am

How many buyers of an EV can actually take advantage of the full $7500 tax credit? To be sure some, maybe many, can. I know I can't! The full $7500 tax credit is only available if line 47 on your 1040 federal tax return shows you have to pay $7500 or more before applying the tax credit. If your tax liability on line 47 is less than $7500, you can only use the federal tax credit in the amount of your tax liability shown on line 47. Application of other tax credits on lines 48 through 54 will further reduce the amount of the $7500 tax credit too. This fact is not mentioned in TV and newspaper ads that show full application of the $7500 tax credit to show a lower price.
Last edited by MrDRMorgan on Fri Nov 03, 2017 9:18 am, edited 1 time in total.

Planerench
Posts: 115
Joined: Mon Oct 02, 2017 5:20 pm
Location: Idaho

Re: 7500 tax credit going away asap

Fri Nov 03, 2017 9:10 am

My Spark EV is the newest/youngest vehicle I have ever owned. I have never had enough money to take the new car depreciation hit. The rapid devaluation of EVs was just a rare opportunity for me to taste something I have never had.

The less the federal government interferes with the free market, the better. That goes for all industries, and farms. The tax code should be simple. The Devil is in the details.

MrDRMorgan
Posts: 1157
Joined: Wed Oct 30, 2013 7:27 am
Location: Manteca in Central California

Re: 7500 tax credit going away asap

Fri Nov 03, 2017 9:21 am

Planerench wrote:My Spark EV is the newest/youngest vehicle I have ever owned. I have never had enough money to take the new car depreciation hit. The rapid devaluation of EVs was just a rare opportunity for me to taste something I have never had.

The less the federal government interferes with the free market, the better. That goes for all industries, and farms. The tax code should be simple. The Devil is in the details.
There are some great used Spark EVs available - I just bought one - and they are going fast!

Planerench
Posts: 115
Joined: Mon Oct 02, 2017 5:20 pm
Location: Idaho

Re: 7500 tax credit going away asap

Fri Nov 03, 2017 9:27 am

I’m curious what California is going to do with a ZED requirement but no lapdog in Washington DC?

Planerench
Posts: 115
Joined: Mon Oct 02, 2017 5:20 pm
Location: Idaho

Re: 7500 tax credit going away asap

Fri Nov 03, 2017 10:50 am

So with all that said, why did we all fall in love with the Spark EV? I am NOT an environmentalist but I am an efficiency nut. I have been flying airplanes since I was 15 and I am chief inspector of a helicopter maintenance facility. I don’t like waste.

Getting my butt to work and back should therefore take as little time and money as possible. Spark EV is absolutely perfect. And it can double as a family town transport. They let me charge at work free of charge.

My previous ride was a 1980 VW diesel pickup. 40MPG, cheap repair parts and tires are small and inexpensive. Two seats and a pickup bed. I burned a lot of waste Jet A.

Airplanes need petroleum. That will be the case for some time. If you need a big pickup truck then there should be big pickup trucks. Remove the crutches from the oil industry, and the power company and let the dust settle where it will. Your mileage may vary.

MrDRMorgan
Posts: 1157
Joined: Wed Oct 30, 2013 7:27 am
Location: Manteca in Central California

Re: 7500 tax credit going away asap

Fri Nov 03, 2017 11:26 am

Planerench wrote:Getting my butt to work and back should therefore take as little time and money as possible. Spark EV is absolutely perfect. And it can double as a family town transport.
I think you have clearly stated the best use for a Spark EV or equivalent. The Spark EV is not a real comfortable long-distance vehicle. But, for local use, it can't be beat! I have proven that for myself over the last 2.5 years of driving my Spark EVs. Government reports and reports from other organizations indicate 85% of our driving is local. If I want to drive comfortably on a long distance vacation trip, I will rent a more comfortable ICE vehicle.

CCIE
Posts: 174
Joined: Tue Nov 22, 2016 8:47 am
Location: CT

Re: 7500 tax credit going away asap

Fri Nov 03, 2017 11:27 am

MrDRMorgan wrote:How many buyers of an EV can actually take advantage of the full $7500 tax credit? To be sure some, maybe many, can. I know I can't! The full $7500 tax credit is only available if line 47 on your 1040 federal tax return shows you have to pay $7500 or more before applying the tax credit. If your tax liability on line 47 is less than $7500, you can only use the federal tax credit in the amount of your tax liability shown on line 47. Application of other tax credits on lines 48 through 54 will further reduce the amount of the $7500 tax credit too. This fact is not mentioned in TV and newspaper ads that show full application of the $7500 tax credit to show a lower price.
In most cases you can get around that issue by leasing.

I don't mean to be rude, but if someone doesn't have $7500 in federal tax liability, they shouldn't be buying a new car. Even retired people should be able to realize enough capital gains to create $7500 in tax liability. If not, save your money and buy a gently used car. Tons of great deals on used EVs.
2018 Tesla M3 LR RWD
2015 Spark EV 2LT with DCFC (traded-in 8/2018)
2012 Volt

NORTON
Posts: 1368
Joined: Fri May 01, 2015 5:52 am
Location: KC,MO

Re: 7500 tax credit going away asap

Fri Nov 03, 2017 11:49 am

CCIE wrote:In most cases you can get around that issue by leasing. ....
But then you're just renting a car for a while.
'14 Spark EV 2LT w/ DCFC. 91k miles.
'17 Bolt Premier w/ It All! 59k miles.
GM needs Modern Troubleshooting tools for Modern EV's.
3 step Trouble Tree, 1st try, nope, 2nd try / cost $800. 3rd try fixed it.

evboy
Posts: 196
Joined: Mon Jan 12, 2015 2:05 am

Re: 7500 tax credit going away asap

Fri Nov 03, 2017 12:16 pm

NORTON wrote:
evboy wrote:.... 2010 to 2017 is long enough for a tax credit that large. ...
But 'tax credits' to the oil barons and a military presence to make that business flow smoothly around the world should just continue forever.
Oh, and the pollution we all share, and enjoy, is just part of doing that business.
what tax credits r u talking about. oil companies deduct their expenses like any other company. what special deductions do oil companies get that any other company doesn't. if they buy a oil rig that's a expense.
Oil is the greatest commodity ever discovered. its solely responsible for the economic boom of the last 80 years. its responsible for the car industry and all the jobs related to that directly and indirectly. its responsible for the federal highway system. its responsible for the airline industry and all the jobs associated with travel. u guys that complain about oil don't realize how much u have gained in wealth because of it. sure its dirty and newer technologies will eventually replace it but oil will always be the most important product ever.
look how basic life was before oil. we had more progress in the last 80 years after oil than we had for 5000 years before oil.

MrDRMorgan
Posts: 1157
Joined: Wed Oct 30, 2013 7:27 am
Location: Manteca in Central California

Re: 7500 tax credit going away asap

Sat Nov 04, 2017 8:53 am

1. In most cases you can get around that issue by leasing.

I don't mean to be rude, but (2) if someone doesn't have $7500 in federal tax liability, they shouldn't be buying a new car. (3) Even retired people should be able to realize enough capital gains to create $7500 in tax liability. (4) If not, save your money and buy a gently used car. Tons of great deals on used EVs.

(1) True - if you want to pay, over many years, multiple down payments and monthly lease payments!
(2) Tax liability is usually associated with income. A $7500 tax liability suggests an income of around $100K or higher depending on deductions. You imply only higher income people should purchase new vehicles and the rest should buy gently used vehicles. There might be some wisdom in that thought but the buying public, automakers and financial institutions might take exception.
(3) Retired people - of which I am one - have varying incomes too and we have to also plan for much higher medical costs as we grow older.
(4) Your last point fits me, a retired person, perfectly. When the Spark EV first came out, I choked on the price - too much, even with the tax credit, and I did not want a car payment. In 2015 a friend of mine leased a 2015 Spark EV 2LT and told me about the special lease offer GM was having at the time. I found my 2015 Spark EV 2LT at a dealer 70 miles from my home and leased it for 3 years. State, County and electric utility EV incentives paid the lease in full for 3 years. Essentially I had a free new car for 3 years. 2 Months after I leased the 2015, I purchased and paid for a used 2014 Spark EV 2LT in factory-new condition and with only 1500 miles on the ODO for $13,500 (includes a $500 utility EV incentive). 2 weeks ago I purchased and paid for a 2016 Spark EV 2LT, in factory new condition and with only 6700 miles on the ODO for $11,200 (includes a $500 utility EV incentive) . This vehicle will replace my 2015 when I turn the 2015 in at the end of May next year.

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