Buying a Used Spark EV - Do I really need fast charging?

I'm buying a Spark EV used because as a Canadian resident (from Alberta), I'm not eligible for tax credits. I know that the fast charging is a $750 option but most of the 2014 models on dealer lots don't have it. If I lived in California, with the ever growing fleet of L3 charging stations, then DCFC would certainly be a benefit. In reality, I would be doing 99% of charging from my rooftop solar on 220v/L2. The other fact is that I don't have L3 within 500 miles of my home so having the DCFC option is likely worthless to me because I may never use it.

I also assume that a Spark EV will depreciate to near zero just because that's the nature of EV's. We also have a very limited resale market for EV's as I know of only two other Spark EV's in Edmonton, and I've doubt there are more than 10 Chevy Volts on the road in our province. Tesla built a supercharger, but I doubt that we'll see SAE Combo L3 charging station in our province for at least 5 years. By that time, I'd probably be looking at buying a different EV anyway.

The deals to be had are on cars without the fast charging option. There are several used but nearly new 2014 Spark EV's going for ~$12,000. Perhaps that's my best choice. I thought I'd share my ramblings...and no doubt I'm overthinking this. Thanks in advance for your opinions.

BTW: I found out that California dealerships are required to charge state tax unless they ship the car out of state. For that reason, driving it home doesn't save me any money so I would just ship the car all the way to Edmonton.

FWIW, I live in California and at the time, I bought a used '13 Leaf in July 2015 to replace my '13 Leaf (which did have CHAdeMO) nearing end of lease, I didn't feel it was worth paying extra for a CHAdeMO inlet. (There are WAY more CHAdeMO DC FCs than SAE Combo.)

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=451274#p451274 is an example of post as to why, for me.

oilerlord said:

I'm buying a Spark EV used ..... In reality, I would be doing 99% of charging from my rooftop solar on 220v/L2. The other fact is that I don't have L3 within 500 miles of my home ...
Tesla built a supercharger, but I doubt that we'll see SAE Combo L3 charging station in our province for at least 5 years. ....
For that reason, driving it home doesn't save me any money so I would just ship the car all the way to Edmonton.

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Aww, no 82 mile EPA rated range EV Road Trip postings.....

But I totally see your point. Someone needs to buy the non-DCFC Spark EV's. And you, with your Solar setup, would be a model EV owner !!

Negotiate with the sellers about "how disappointed you are that the car doesn't have this very important option". "It will be very hard to sell". You would be willing to "buy it for $1000 less".
Good Luck ! Go get those dogs !

Although,, I can see the case for Tesla to come around and start selling access to the Superchargers to other EV's.
Currently Tesla's model is the Superchargers bring NO MONEY, forever. Selling access would at least allow them to start making money off the supercharger network.
Only time will tell if there will a Tesla-to-SAE Combo adapter cord and a method for Tesla to sell the electrons,, (for a change) !
Tesla currently sells a Chademo-to-Tesla adapter cord.

NORTON said:

Aww, no 82 mile EPA rated range EV Road Trip postings.....

But I totally see your point. Someone needs to buy the non-DCFC Spark EV's. And you, with your Solar setup, would be a model EV owner !!

Negotiate with the sellers about "how disappointed you are that the car doesn't have this very important option". "It will be very hard to sell". You would be willing to "buy it for $1000 less".
Good Luck ! Go get those dogs !

Although,, I can see the case for Tesla to come around and start selling access to the Superchargers to other EV's.
Currently Tesla's model is the Superchargers bring NO MONEY, forever. Selling access would at least allow them to start making money off the supercharger network.
Only time will tell if there will a Tesla-to-SAE Combo adapter cord and a method for Tesla to sell the electrons,, (for a change) !
Tesla currently sells a Chademo-to-Tesla adapter cord.

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No white-knuckled, stuff-of-legend, range anxiety trips through the mountains. Sorry about that!

To your point, the reality is that dealers don't understand these cars, let alone differences in L1/L2/L3 charging. There are a number of nearly new non-DCFC 2014's that are essentially 50% off of the price of 2016 models (for guys like me that can't claim tax rebates).

I was about to buy one of these at $12,000 until I found out it didn't have DCFC but again, I have two other cars available in the rare event I need to go longer distances. I used your "how disappointed I am" angle and offered $11,000 which was rejected...but another 500 bucks might get it done since the car's been sitting on the lot since last July.

oilerlord said:

...... I used your "how disappointed I am" angle and offered $11,000 which was rejected...but another 500 bucks might get it done since the car's been sitting on the lot since last July.

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Patience, young Canuck. Hungry Dogs these are, you are dealing with. Let them, in their own juices, stew for a while.

Will you be going there or handling the purchase and shipping all from the Great White North? If you have to show up in person cash and/or certified checks makes there ears perk up!

NORTON said:

oilerlord said:

...... I used your "how disappointed I am" angle and offered $11,000 which was rejected...but another 500 bucks might get it done since the car's been sitting on the lot since last July.

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Patience, young Canuck. Hungry Dogs these are, you are dealing with. Let them stew in their own juices for a while.

Will you be going there or handling the purchase and shipping all from the Great White North? If you have to show up in person cash and/or certified checks makes there ears perk up!

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Hungry dogs perhaps, but ears don't necessarily perk up when the car is a zero-profit sale. I've done a few deals via long distance before...pretty standard stuff...CC deposit / wire transfer / title in hand before getting to the border. Logistics are easy to arrange too. Fortunately, the warranty on these survive the border crossing too.

No reason to go to the dealer since they are required to charge state tax if I pick up the car in person. For that reason, shipping it makes the most sense.

Having had a variety of fast charging and non-fast charging cars, I wouldn't own a car without a DC charging option. It gives so much more flexibility, not just for road trips, but for opportunity charging and emergency charging. If it was a limited time lease (like my B250e) then lacking a fast charger isn't that big of a deal, but if it's something you want to keep for a long time it seems silly to assume you'll never have infrastructure. 5 years ago there weren't any DC chargers anywhere. Now there are thousands blanketing the US (and a bit of Canada). In 5 more years, they'll be significantly more common IMO.

Do you need it? No, of course not. You don't need a car at all. Should you get a car with fast charging if you're getting an EV? If you're buying it, of course. It's not much more money and adds more value than the cost.

Bryce

With the new NDP government and carbon taxes on heavy emitters, I would suspect there will be fast chagrining infrastructure in the province within the next two years. BC will eventually extend their fast charging network to the Alberta boarder. I can easily see that within 4 years, I could make my huge Edmonton to California trip exclusively on DCFC stations. When I left for California, there were only 5 stations on my route, now there are 26. Of all the jurisdictions in North America, I could see a rapid change in Alberta, this province is ready for it. Edmonton has the highest per capita solar installations of any city in Canada, people are tired of the economic swings from the oil patch, and the next generation of Albertan's are seeing the benefits of green energy.

We'll see. New carbon taxes and rolling out $100,000 DC fast charging stations while Alberta's oil based economy is dying on the vine - isn't exactly vote-inspiring to a laid off oil worker that can't make their mortgage payment.

Politics aside, my priorities are lowest price and fewest cycles on the battery...future the availability of L3 charging is more of a nice-to-have than a necessity for me. It will only be a few months before I'll be able to pick up a very low mileage 2014 at around ~$10K. If the resale market suggests a non-DCFC car is $2K less than one with that option, I'll use the savings to install some PV on my east facing roof so I can catch more of the morning sun to charge up the car.

oilerlord said:

>... It will only be a few months before I'll be able to pick up a very low mileage 2014 at around ~$10K. If the resale market suggests a non-DCFC car is $2K less than one with that option.....
>>... install some PV on my east facing roof ....

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> This is probably true. If you have patience, even better! Somebody's got to show the Non-DCFC Spark EV's some love...
>> "East" ?? Spaced and angled up to the south?

NORTON said:

> This is probably true. If you have patience, even better! Somebody's got to show the Non-DCFC Spark EV's some love...
>> "East" ?? Spaced and angled up to the south?

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I've been musing about putting up ~12 modules on the other side of the garage.

https://easyview.auroravision.net/easyview/index.html?entityId=7466210

oilerlord said:

2014 at around ~$10K.

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Is that USD or CAD? If USD, CAD would be about $13K, still very good deal.

While not having DCFC is not so bad since you don't have them in your area now, you will kick yourself when they begin to pop up. It is possible to make small profit from operating DCFC even without government subsidy, so it'll depend on how many EV are in your area.

But then, there may be far longer range EV by that time, though I don't know if they'll be as cheap. Or you might be able to "trade up" to another SparkEV that has DCFC at that time. So in your case, I don't think DCFC is absolutely needed at this time.

SparkevBlogspot said:

Is that USD or CAD? If USD, CAD would be about $13K, still very good deal.

While not having DCFC is not so bad since you don't have them in your area now, you will kick yourself when they begin to pop up. It is possible to make small profit from operating DCFC even without government subsidy, so it'll depend on how many EV are in your area.

But then, there may be far longer range EV by that time, though I don't know if they'll be as cheap. Or you might be able to "trade up" to another SparkEV that has DCFC at that time. So in your case, I don't think DCFC is absolutely needed at this time.

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USD$10K. As of today, that's about CAD $13,400.

No one really knows when DCFC will become available in Alberta but I think it's going to be a long time coming. Alberta has a population of ~4.2 million. To give you some perspective about how many EV's we have on the road in our province; a quick search on trader.ca (Canada's equivalent of cars.com) shows 49,870 cars for sale. From that total, there are exactly 4 electric vehicles for sale in Alberta. 3 new Nissan Leafs, and a 2012 Volt.

Oilerlord,

A little SparkEV without a fast charger sounds perfect for you!

That's what I have. I bought my Spark when they were very new on the market and the fast charger wasn't available. I'm so glad I didn't wait for the FC option! I live on the Central Coast of California. Though there is a local bank of Tesla chargers and quite a few public L2 chargers, now two and a half years after I got my car, we are just starting to get the Fast Charging stations in our area.

Still, the closest one is about 25 miles away from me. Not going to use that as my main charging station!

I, like you, have solar panels. I pull into my garage, plug my car into my home L2 charger, and walk into the house. Couldn't be easier! I also charge whenever I want. I'm spoiled! I don't want to wait 20 minutes at some charging station.

Occasionally I use a public L2 charger, but that's just because it can get me some pretty sweet parking spots.

As I've said many times on this forum, this car is my main car and the car my husband and I take whenever we go any place in the county. We obviously haven't been hindered by not having a fast charger.

Also, over two and a half years in (I'll have had the car for three years in July), I still LOVE driving this car! No loss of range, no rattles, no bugs.

jsca72 said:

Oilerlord,

A little SparkEV without a fast charger sounds perfect for you!

That's what I have. I bought my Spark when they were very new on the market and the fast charger wasn't available. I'm so glad I didn't wait for the FC option! I live on the Central Coast of California. Though there is a local bank of Tesla chargers and quite a few public L2 chargers, now two and a half years after I got my car, we are just starting to get the Fast Charging stations in our area.
.....
Also, over two and a half years in (I'll have had the car for three years in July), I still LOVE driving this car! No loss of range, no rattles, no bugs.

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I'm in the same boat: No "fast charging", never need it, never will. The Spark EV is my runabout car, commuter car, and a kick-in-the-pants to drive. Just plug it in and walk in the house. It charges up every night "just like my cell phone". That's all I'll ever need.

For longer trips, we use our other cars -- Volt is top choice for that.

In the past two years, it's been into a dealer once -- for the hood latch recall. It's almost time to replace the front tires. Such an expensive car to maintain!

SteveC5088 said:

No "fast charging", never need it, never will.

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I wouldn't be so sure. Without DCFC, your range from home is about 40 miles. But if there's fast charger 80 miles away, that will effectively make the range 120 miles (80 + 40 miles). If there are enough DCFC, SparkEV doesn't have to be just for commuting, but even for occasional couple of hundred miles with 3 or 4 DCFC. I do 200+ miles per day trips once or twice a month with SparkEV while my gas car sits idle, which I wasn't expecting when I first got the "80 miles range EV."

For oilerlord's case, it doesn't sound like there will be DCFC within hundred miles any time soon, so not having it may not be as much an issue.

SparkevBlogspot said:

SteveC5088 said:

No "fast charging", never need it, never will.

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I wouldn't be so sure. Without DCFC, your range from home is about 40 miles. But if there's fast charger 80 miles away, that will effectively make the range 120 miles (80 + 40 miles). If there are enough DCFC, SparkEV doesn't have to be just for commuting, but even for occasional couple of hundred miles with 3 or 4 DCFC. I do 200+ miles per day trips once or twice a month with SparkEV while my gas car sits idle, which I wasn't expecting when I first got the "80 miles range EV."

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I would agree. My 2014 Spark EV does not have the quick-charge option but this has not been a problem since the car is just fine for around-town driving. My 2015 Spark EV does have the quick charge option and is great for distance traveling as long as DCFC stations are available along the way. So far I have ventured as far out as 115 mi from home without a problem and I am currently planning a trip to Los Angeles that would be about 525 miles one way. There are a couple of spots along my planned route that will require some creative charging but I think it will be ok.

Thanks for the comments...appreciated! I'm going to wait for right deal to come along with or without fast charging. I'm watching a few dealers that have had their Spark EV's on their lots for a long time. There was a 2014 2LT with fast charge and ~12,000 miles - I offered $11,500 a couple of weeks ago, they came back at $11,988. Strange thing happened...I get an email from the salesperson asking if I'm still interested...I reply "yes", then he emails back telling me it's sold (I'm assuming at ~$12,000). At first, I kind of thought the guy was being a jerk, but I think dealership's CRM software schedules follow-up emails to be sent automatically.

For me, I'd gladly trade the fast charging option for the ability to charge at 6.6kW. Why GM continues to saddle such a great EV with slow 3.3kW charging is puzzling. 6.6kW charging would also allow me to get a reasonably quick top up at home. There are several L2 chargers in my area...but I can't see much benefit wasting my time sitting at a L2 charging at only ~15 miles of range per hour.

oilerlord said:

For me, I'd gladly trade the fast charging option for the ability to charge at 6.6kW. Why GM continues to saddle such a great EV with slow 3.3kW charging is puzzling. 6.6kW charging would also allow me to get a reasonably quick top up at home. There are several L2 chargers in my area...but I can't see much benefit wasting my time sitting at a L2 charging at only ~15 miles of range per hour.

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I find quick charging to 85-87% works best and I normally only need 15 minutes or less, depending on the depth of discharge, to get to 85%. After 85% the charge rate drops dramatically and it seems to take another 20 minutes to get to 100%.