Pay by The Mile Road Use Charge

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MrDRMorgan

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 30, 2013
Messages
1,211
Location
Manteca in Central California
I have been selected to participate in the California Road Charge pilot program which started this month - July. This pilot program is being conducted to assess replacing the California gasoline tax with a fee per mile driven on California's roads. I understand Oregon has this same plan in operation and I would like to get meaningful comments as to how it is working for EV drivers and ICE drivers in Oregon. Comments please.
 
What does this "tax" get you? If you're not required to pay, I don't see why one would volunteer for it.

But if it's required, let's compare to SparkGas at about 40 MPG. CA gas tax is about $0.40/gal, or $0.01/mile. SparkEV gets 119 MPGe, so the tax would be about $0.0033/mile. At 10,000 miles per year, that works out to about $33/yr for SparkEV vs ~$100/yr for SparkGas. If it's any more, you'd be paying more than gas cars would pay. Somehow, I doubt they'll consider EV's high efficiency and cap it at such low rate.
 
SparkevBlogspot said:
What does this "tax" get you? If you're not required to pay, I don't see why one would volunteer for it.

But if it's required, let's compare to SparkGas at about 40 MPG. CA gas tax is about $0.40/gal, or $0.01/mile. SparkEV gets 119 MPGe, so the tax would be about $0.0033/mile. At 10,000 miles per year, that works out to about $33/yr for SparkEV vs ~$100/yr for SparkGas. If it's any more, you'd be paying more than gas cars would pay. Somehow, I doubt they'll consider EV's high efficiency and cap it at such low rate.
Here is how I understand the California Road Use Charge is calculated:

For a 2016 SparkGas the combined EPA MPG estimate is 35 mpg. At 10,000 miles the SparkGas would use 286 gallons of gasoline. The California portion (prior to July 1) of the total gasoline tax is $0.354 per gallon or $101.24 for 10,000 miles of driving. Under the proposed California Road Use Charge, each mile driven would cost $0.018 per mile or $180.00 for 10,000 miles of driving. The SparkGas driver would have already paid $101.24 in gasoline taxes so he would only have to pay an additional $78.76 in Road Use fees to meet his total Road Use Charge obligation of $180.00. A Spark EV driver would be billed for the full $180.00 Road Use Charges.

Now, lets consider a vehicle getting an EPA combined 17 mpg and being driven the same 10,000 mile distance on the same roads as the SparkGas. This vehicle would use 588 gallons of gasoline and would pay $208.15 in gasoline taxes. However, this vehicle's driver would only owe $180 in Road Use Charges so he could expect a credit back in the amount of $28.15.

Everyone pays the same cost per mile driven, regardless of vehicle. This seems fair to me. I would like to see input from Spark EV drivers in Oregon who might be part of Oregon's Road Use program started on July 1, 2015.
 
greenspark said:
Will the road use charge vary depending on how much damage the vehicle does to the road? Apparently, large trucks do as much damage to the road as 9600 cars (see page ii http://archive.gao.gov/f0302/109884.pdf).

Large trucks do cause considerable damage to the roads on which they travel. At this time, I am not sure how this will be addressed in the cost per mile program. The California pilot program includes about 50 big rig trucks.
 
The Oregon plan, which they call OrEgo, has been a dismal failure. It's not hard to see why when you look at the design. Instead of thinking through a fair program, like CA, apparently, Oregon charges everyone the same amount, 1.5 cents a mile. They reduce your gas tax, but it is based on 20 mpg. So if you have an F450 that gets 10 mpg and drive 1000 miles a month, you will receive a $15 rebate. If you drive a Prius and get 45 mpg and drive the same amount, you will receive a bill for $9. If you have an EV, you will simply receive a bill for 1.5 cents x the miles you drive. It's been voluntary for just over one year, and as of March, 2016 less than 1000 people have signed up, most within ODOT. They have a goal of 5000 volunteers. The program has been rife with scandal, as has ODOT in general, as the head of the program was taking junkets overseas on the taxpayer's dime in order to "research" per-mile programs. But like everything else in state government, I'm sure the program will eventually be shoved down our throats.

I'm sure I may not be explaining the system the best, so I have included a link. Notice about halfway down the page there is a calculator.


http://www.myorego.org/
 
Road use tax in CA as you describe is unfair. Usually, cars that tear up the road less (less powerful and light) pay less with gas tax since they are more fuel efficient. In addition, the extra gas cost would discourage high polluting (aka, heavy SUV) and encourage cleaner air. But with road use tax that's flat, those who tear up the road less is paying for those who tear up the road more, not to mention more pollution.
 
SparkevBlogspot said:
Road use tax in CA as you describe is unfair. Usually, cars that tear up the road less (less powerful and light) pay less with gas tax since they are more fuel efficient. In addition, the extra gas cost would discourage high polluting (aka, heavy SUV) and encourage cleaner air. But with road use tax that's flat, those who tear up the road less is paying for those who tear up the road more, not to mention more pollution.

The gasoline tax or road usage fee per mile have nothing to do with air pollution although air pollution is a concern. They are specifically assessed to pay for the maintenance and construction of the highways on which we all drive.

Show me a valid engineering study of passenger vehicles that quantifies the amount of road damage per mile various vehicle weight ranges cause at various speeds. I believe that you will find the amount of road damage caused by "passenger vehicles" in this class, regardless of fuel efficiency, would be about the same. On the other hand, very heavy vehicles like big trucks cause considerably more road damage than passenger vehicles and that needs to be addressed.

You said the road use tax (charge) in CA is unfair. Like me, you drive a Spark EV which does not use one drop of gasoline and, therefore, you and I pay nothing for driving on the highways which some other motorists, driving on the same highways and the same distances, are paying gasoline taxes to keep those highways repaired for both of us. What is fair about that?

I would like to suggest you visit http://www.myorego.org and carefully review what the State of Oregon has done to make this program fair to all motorists. California is following a similar approach using the Oregon analysis as a baseline. Oregon's Department of Transportation published a summary report titled "Road Usage Charge Pilot Program 2013". This report is available on http://www.myorego.org and details the effort Oregon made to have a "fair" program. They also list many concerns the driving public expressed.

My initial post was directed to Oregon Spark EV drivers who might be enrolled in Oregon's Road Use Charge program; not to debate personal opinions others may have about the program. I am interested in comments from actual users of Oregon's Road Use Charge program.
 
Then you are going to want to post in some different forum, but I'd have no idea which one. A quick online search yielded no reviews at all, only news articles. Since there are less than 1,000 people enrolled, and quite a few are ODOT employees, and likely 0 are EV owners, you are going to have a difficult time finding anyone with experience. Just sayn'
 
wfam5 said:
Then you are going to want to post in some different forum, but I'd have no idea which one. A quick online search yielded no reviews at all, only news articles. Since there are less than 1,000 people enrolled, and quite a few are ODOT employees, and likely 0 are EV owners, you are going to have a difficult time finding anyone with experience. Just sayn'
I would have to agree with you although all PHEV, PEV and BEV drivers need to be aware of what is coming. I expect the PHEV, PEV and BEV vehicles will be first for which the Road Use Charge programs will be mandatory.

Oregon is supposed to have 5000 drivers signed up for their program which started July 1, 2015. The Road Use Charge Pilot program in California just started July 1, 2016 and will run for 9 months. They wanted 5000 volunteers and had almost 8000 apply.
 
When I registered my Spark EV in Missouri I scanned that title/reg application like a lawyer due to an issue on my previous Volt.
I saw 'Fuel Type - Gas'. I told the gal it's an EV. She asked "No gas engine at all?". I said "Nope".
She said "That will be another $75 please, and here's a green sticker to place in the upper right hand corner of your windshield".

Isn't this another way of satisfying 'Road Use' taxes?

BTW, isn't PEV and BEV the same thing?
 
NORTON said:
When I registered my Spark EV in Missouri I scanned that title/reg application like a lawyer due to an issue on my previous Volt.
I saw 'Fuel Type - Gas'. I told the gal it's an EV. She asked "No gas engine at all?". I said "Nope".
She said "That will be another $75 please, and here's a green sticker to place in the upper right hand corner of your windshield".

Isn't this another way of satisfying 'Road Use' taxes?

BTW, isn't PEV and BEV the same thing?
A $75 fee for what? Do you pay it every year or is it a one time fee? California annual DMV fees can be staggering.

Sorry, but here is a lengthy explanation of how the proposed California Road Usage Charge works. Yesterday my wife and I took a 255 mile day trip in our Spark EV. If we had taken the same trip in our 2002 Honda Accord, we would have consumed 10 gallons of gasoline (EPA combined 25.7 mpg). California's portion of the gasoline tax per gallon is $0.354 so we would have paid $3.54 in California gasoline taxes for our 255 mile trip. But, since we drove the Spark EV, we paid nothing. Had the California Road Usage Charge been in effect at a rate of $0.018 per mile, we would have paid California $4.59 for the trip. Had the Road Usage Charge been in effect for my Honda Accord, I would have paid $3.54 in gasoline taxes at the pump and I would also have had to pay an additional $1.05 to California to make up the full Road Usage Charge of $4.59. Vehicles less efficient than my Honda would have paid more in gasoline taxes and, if they paid more than $4.59 in gasoline taxes for the same trip, they would actually receive a credit for the difference so their net cost would be $4.59.

I am participating in the California Road Usage Pilot Program to understand what impact this program is going to have on me and other vehicles with high MPG including PHEV and PEV(BEV). The Road Usage Charge program could eventually involve most or all vehicles in California. Currently, my only real source of information is coming from the State of Oregon which is about 2-3 years ahead of California. Oregon began its live program in July of 2015 and limited it to 5000 motorists. The California program has 5000 motorists too but it started on July 1, 2016 and it is a 9-month fully functioning test program including the billing, payment and collection of road use mileage charges. Vehicle mileage data is being collected via various reporting options. For me, both of my Spark EVs have a wireless device connected to the OBDII port. This device reports mileage information, GPS location and more to an account manager. All accounting and billing functions are being tested too, but since this is just an evaluation project, no actual money changes hands.
 
MrDRMorgan said:
A $75 fee for what? Do you pay it every year or is it a one time fee? California annual DMV fees can be staggering....
I just renewed my registration and I didn't have to pay it again. I assume it's the equivalent of a one time 'road use' tax.
Sorry about whatever the California fees turn out to be. I guess you have to pay to play....

I'm sure in the future all EV's will have to pay their fair share.
Until then,,, these are the glory days for us early adopters!!
 
The fair way to handle road use taxes is to base them on max. axle (or even tire if duals or more) weight multiplied by some fixed value/mile. No rebates. Note this only is for road infrastructure - you handle the effects of pollution through a separate gas or carbon tax. PEVs, being somewhat heavier than ICEs, will pay a bit more in road tax, but won't be paying as much in carbon tax depending on the source(s) of their electricity, and nothing/less for gas tax depending on if they're BEV or PHEV. In order to avoid Big Brother issues the road tax needs to be a yearly assessment based strictly on odometer reading, which implies an extra cost/time for someone to check it while you pay your annual registration fee. Alternatively, people who don't care if the government knows where their car is at all times can opt for automatic calculation of fees based on GPS/wireless.
 
gra said:
The fair way to handle road use taxes is to base them on max. axle (or even tire if duals or more) weight multiplied by some fixed value/mile. No rebates. Note this only is for road infrastructure - you handle the effects of pollution through a separate gas or carbon tax. PEVs, being somewhat heavier than ICEs, will pay a bit more in road tax, but won't be paying as much in carbon tax depending on the source(s) of their electricity, and nothing/less for gas tax depending on if they're BEV or PHEV. In order to avoid Big Brother issues the road tax needs to be a yearly assessment based strictly on odometer reading, which implies an extra cost/time for someone to check it while you pay your annual registration fee. Alternatively, people who don't care if the government knows where their car is at all times can opt for automatic calculation of fees based on GPS/wireless.
The key is how to collect mileage information and protect personal information. Even GPS tracking upsets some drivers. Right now there are two vehicle groups: Light Vehicles and Heavy Vehicles.

Here is where to find more information about the big picture:
Log onto www.OreGo.org for Oregon's plan.
Log onto http://www.californiaroadchargepilot.com for California's plan.
Google Washington State Road Usage Charge Assessment-Phase 4 for even more information.

Apparently, it is not as easy as it seems.
 
MrDRMorgan said:
.... Even GPS tracking upsets some drivers. ...

Hate to rain on those drivers, but,, Most GM cars have Onstar.
Which has a GPS, a cell phone, and a microphone in the car.

Therefore currently, Onstar knows where you are, how fast you are driving, and what you are talking about while driving, what's on the radio, car data and who knows what else???

Face it, privacy is a thing of the past.
 
NORTON said:
MrDRMorgan said:
.... Even GPS tracking upsets some drivers. ...

Hate to rain on those drivers, but,, Most GM cars have Onstar.
Which has a GPS, a cell phone, and a microphone in the car.

Therefore currently, Onstar knows where you are, how fast you are driving, and what you are talking about while driving, what's on the radio, car data and who knows what else???

Face it, privacy is a thing of the past.
Yep! I have checked out OnStar and it does provide most, if not all, of the required info for the Road Usage Charge (RUC) programs. But.... starting in 2015 OnStar added the Smart Driver option which tracks the information you mentioned and what the RUC programs require. My 2014 Spark EV does not have this option so it would not work for the RUC.

OnStar is not currently mentioned as one of the monitoring options for RUC but the goal looks like vehicle telematics will be added in the future as RUC programs and vehicle telematics develop. Right now the plan is to use outside administrators like Azuga which is running the RUC program in Oregon and is one of a number of administrators participating in California's RUC pilot program.

Both of my Spark EVs are equipped with an Azuga OBDII device provided and monitored by Azuga, a non-state administrator. California contracts with non-state administrators to run the RUC program and send the RUC funds to the DOT's account in the state treasury. GPS vehicle tracking by the government has been a big concern in all of the state reports I have read. But, about 72% of RUC program drivers have asked for it as part of their RUC account.
 
gra said:
The fair way to handle road use taxes is to base them on max. axle (or even tire if duals or more) weight multiplied by some fixed value/mile. No rebates. Note this only is for road infrastructure - you handle the effects of pollution through a separate gas or carbon tax. PEVs, being somewhat heavier than ICEs, will pay a bit more in road tax, but won't be paying as much in carbon tax depending on the source(s) of their electricity, and nothing/less for gas tax depending on if they're BEV or PHEV. In order to avoid Big Brother issues the road tax needs to be a yearly assessment based strictly on odometer reading, which implies an extra cost/time for someone to check it while you pay your annual registration fee. Alternatively, people who don't care if the government knows where their car is at all times can opt for automatic calculation of fees based on GPS/wireless.

This sounds like the 2nd best way to fund infrastructure.

The best way is to simply fund it through regular tax revenue, that way it gets properly funded each year, and it reduces overhead costs. Everyone benefits from road infrastructure even if they don't drive, so it makes sense to have it funded with the general tax pool.

If local municipalities want to discourage driving and reduce congestion, they could levy their own tax per mile, or whatever other method they choose.
 
Fuel tax is/was a reasonably good proxy for road wear, the heavier more powerful vehicles pay more, if you drive twice as much you pay twice as much, and it's as easy/cheap to administer as a sales tax. And as an added benefit, the more aggressive drivers pay more than the ones who accelerate gently and coast towards stop signs. (dirt roads especially get a lot of extra wear at intersections from people braking and accelerating hard)

But, what to do about untaxed fuel, like electricity?
Michigan's solution:
1. Increase gas tax from 19 cents per gallon and diesel tax from 15 cents per gallon to 26.3 cents. (the road fund needs more money because we're still trying to repair winter 2015 road damage, but fortunately, the 2016 pothole season and road salt usage were below average)
2. Increase registration fees across the board.
3. Add $100 a year to the new higher plate fee if the vehicle is electric, because they aren't paying gas tax. Unfortunately, that $100 is more than I'd be paying in gas tax to not buy an EV and keep driving my Ion. I'd have to drive the Ion almost 15,000 miles to rack up $100 at 26.3 cents a gallon.
4. Add $30 a year to the annual registration on a hybrid, because they're more fuel efficient and pay less gas tax.

I see two good things in all the above: The roads should get better, and I don't have to pay the higher 2017 plate fees until next December, for once my late birthday works in my favor.
 
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