Questions about braking issues on this forum?

I have been reading the board for about 2 years now and most people love the car. I finally bought a 2014 sparky yesterday. should be getting it next week some time. now, i read a few posts about the braking problems which people didnt mentioned for 2 years. I decided to download the manual online and read it while im waiting for my car. on 9-25 of the owners manual they talk about how the braking works:

"Regenerative Braking
Regenerative braking takes some of
the energy from the moving vehicle
and turns it back into electrical
energy. This energy is then stored
back into the high voltage battery
system, contributing to increased
energy efficiency.
The hydraulic disc brakes work with
the regenerative braking to ensure
effective braking, such as when a
high braking demand is requested.
The braking system is computer
controlled and blends the
regenerative braking with the
conventional hydraulic disc brakes
to meet any requirements for
deceleration. The controller
interprets the braking request and
uses regenerative braking,
conventional hydraulic braking, or a
combination of both as necessary.
Because the controller applies the
hydraulic brakes through its high
pressure accumulator, you may
occasionally hear the motor‐driven
pump when it recharges the system.
This is normal.
See Warning Lights, Gauges, and
Indicators on page 5-6 and Driver
Information Center (DIC) on
page 5-29. In the event of a
controller problem, the brake pedal
may be harder to push and the
stopping distance may be longer.

I have a few questions: are all brakes in cars computer controlled? 2.they mention the CONTROLLER picks which way to brake- regen,hydraulic, or both. the last sentence says if the controller has a problem the pedal will be harder to push and stopping will take longer. does all that mean a chip/contoller manages all braking.Is the controller a computer chip or something completely different. how is this different than your basic toyota corolla brakes. if the controller breaks shouldnt it go to a default old school braking.

The brakes on the Spark EV, and most hybrids & EVs are different than standard power assisted hydraulic brake systems.

The Spark EV's brake pedal does two things. For about 90% of the pedal's travel you are just telling a computer that you want to slow down. The computer decides, based on how far and how fast you push the pedal, if it should use regenerative braking or the hydraulic friction brakes to slow you down. This is mostly seamless, though you can sometimes tell when the friction brakes start to enagage.

The bottom 10% (roughly) of the pedal's travel directly activates the car's hydraulic friction brakes. This is a failsafe in case the car's power or braking computer fails. So, you can always activate the brakes if you "push through" the electronic portion of the brake pedal. But, this does take more effort than most people are used to.

CCIE said:

The brakes on the Spark EV, and most hybrids & EVs are different than standard power assisted hydraulic brake systems.

The Spark EV's brake pedal does two things. For about 90% of the pedal's travel you are just telling a computer that you want to slow down. The computer decides, based on how far and how fast you push the pedal, if it should use regenerative braking or the hydraulic friction brakes to slow you down. This is mostly seamless, though you can sometimes tell when the friction brakes start to enagage.

The bottom 10% (roughly) of the pedal's travel directly activates the car's hydraulic friction brakes. This is a failsafe in case the car's power or braking computer fails. So, you can always activate the brakes if you "push through" the electronic portion of the brake pedal. But, this does take more effort than most people are used to.

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why not go 100 percent friction brakes. who cares about a extra 3 miles of range you get. i dont want to rely on a computer for my braking. why complicate things

CCIE said:

The brakes on the Spark EV, and most hybrids & EVs are different than standard power assisted hydraulic brake systems.

The Spark EV's brake pedal does two things. For about 90% of the pedal's travel you are just telling a computer that you want to slow down. The computer decides, based on how far and how fast you push the pedal, if it should use regenerative braking or the hydraulic friction brakes to slow you down. This is mostly seamless, though you can sometimes tell when the friction brakes start to enagage.

The bottom 10% (roughly) of the pedal's travel directly activates the car's hydraulic friction brakes. This is a failsafe in case the car's power or braking computer fails. So, you can always activate the brakes if you "push through" the electronic portion of the brake pedal. But, this does take more effort than most people are used to.

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do u think the technology is reliable to brake with the computer runnng the first 90 percent

evboy said:

do u think the technology is reliable to brake with the computer runnng the first 90 percent

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No, it is not reliable enough. See my post under the topic "Is anyone having braking issues" or something close to that

emailjillianne said:

evboy said:

do u think the technology is reliable to brake with the computer runnng the first 90 percent

Click to expand...

No, it is not reliable enough. See my post under the topic "Is anyone having braking issues" or something close to that

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why dont u file a complaint with nhtsa. if all 5 of you go online and let the feds know we might get a recall. its a small number compared to the 4k sparks that were sold but its still important. im sure the gm scientists can figure it out but we need a recall first so they will spend the time to do it.

31K miles and I've never had any issues with the brakes. Regen works (and for me the range gain is significant), hydraulics works, and the ABS saves my butt once so I'd say it works too. If you, or someone else does, by all means contact the feds.

GM has the used the same blended regen/friction braking system on the Volt, ELR, and Spark EV. The Volt has been out since 2011. I forget the exact number, buts it's over 100,000 cars delivered. If the system had any major issues, there would have been NHTSA reports and GM would have had to do a recall. So, yes, I consider the system safe and reliable. And in instances where there is an issue, the friction brakes can still be activated up pushing hard on the pedal.

If you don't like having a computer involved with your brakes, you shouldn't drive any car with ABS either. The ABS system in any car has a computer that could lock up your brakes at highway speed if it had a major issue (like someone attaching crappy electronics to the car that causes CAN bus interference). I'm sure that's happened before, but it's so rare you never hear about it.

As to why electric cars & hybrids have regen, it's because it greatly increases the efficiency. It's not a 3 mile difference either. You'd get 10–20% less range without regen. That's why they don't just use friction brakes. Actually, regen is my favorite part of these cars. Today when I drive an ICE vehicle it annoys me to hit the brakes and throw away all of that energy.

CCIE said:

GM has the used the same blended regen/friction braking system on the Volt, ELR, and Spark EV. The Volt has been out since 2011. I forget the exact number, buts it's over 100,000 cars delivered. If the system had any major issues, there would have been NHTSA reports and GM would have had to do a recall. So, yes, I consider the system safe and reliable. And in instances where there is an issue, the friction brakes can still be activated up pushing hard on the pedal.

If you don't like having a computer involved with your brakes, you shouldn't drive any car with ABS either. The ABS system in any car has a computer that could lock up your brakes at highway speed if it had a major issue (like someone attaching crappy electronics to the car that causes CAN bus interference). I'm sure that's happened before, but it's so rare you never hear about it.

As to why electric cars & hybrids have regen, it's because it greatly increases the efficiency. It's not a 3 mile difference either. You'd get 10–20% less range without regen. That's why they don't just use friction brakes. Actually, regen is my favorite part of these cars. Today when I drive an ICE vehicle it annoys me to hit the brakes and throw away all of that energy.

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Thanks cc for your input. you r very informed on these issues. did u or do you own a sparke

emailjillianne said:

evboy said:

do u think the technology is reliable to brake with the computer runnng the first 90 percent

Click to expand...

No, it is not reliable enough. See my post under the topic "Is anyone having braking issues" or something close to that

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Better stay out of elevators then. Regenerative braking is how non-hydraulic elevators work. And diesel electric locomotives.

nikwax said:

emailjillianne said:

evboy said:

do u think the technology is reliable to brake with the computer runnng the first 90 percent

Click to expand...

No, it is not reliable enough. See my post under the topic "Is anyone having braking issues" or something close to that

Click to expand...

Better stay out of elevators then. Regenerative braking is how non-hydraulic elevators work. And diesel electric locomotives.

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Thats funny. i do stay out of elevators as often as possible if i can take the stairs. i was stuck in one for about 20 seconds one time. it was the scariest 20 seconds of my life. I hate fucking elevators. LOL

evboy said:

Thanks cc for your input. you r very informed on these issues. did u or do you own a sparke

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I own a Volt and a Spark EV.

CCIE said:

evboy said:

Thanks cc for your input. you r very informed on these issues. did u or do you own a sparke

Click to expand...

I own a Volt and a Spark EV.

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any tips before i get mine

CCIE said:

The brakes on the Spark EV, and most hybrids & EVs are different than standard power assisted hydraulic brake systems.

The Spark EV's brake pedal does two things. For about 90% of the pedal's travel you are just telling a computer that you want to slow down. The computer decides, based on how far and how fast you push the pedal, if it should use regenerative braking or the hydraulic friction brakes to slow you down. This is mostly seamless, though you can sometimes tell when the friction brakes start to enagage.

The bottom 10% (roughly) of the pedal's travel directly activates the car's hydraulic friction brakes. This is a failsafe in case the car's power or braking computer fails. So, you can always activate the brakes if you "push through" the electronic portion of the brake pedal. But, this does take more effort than most people are used to.

Click to expand...

In my experience, that is not how the brakes work at all. Friction braking will kick in well before the final 10% in normal circumstances and can kick in at the very top under the right circumstances. The computer determines when to apply regen or friction (or both simultaneously) based on pedal pressure, ability to regen, and other variables. There is no specific location at which the pedal changes to (or adds in) friction braking. If you take your shoes off, you can feel when friction gets added in. They did a very good job in getting the blending right so it is barely perceptible when friction kicks in (unlike many other cars where it is like going over a speed bump 15mph too fast).

67goat said:

CCIE said:

The brakes on the Spark EV, and most hybrids & EVs are different than standard power assisted hydraulic brake systems.

The Spark EV's brake pedal does two things. For about 90% of the pedal's travel you are just telling a computer that you want to slow down. The computer decides, based on how far and how fast you push the pedal, if it should use regenerative braking or the hydraulic friction brakes to slow you down. This is mostly seamless, though you can sometimes tell when the friction brakes start to enagage.

The bottom 10% (roughly) of the pedal's travel directly activates the car's hydraulic friction brakes. This is a failsafe in case the car's power or braking computer fails. So, you can always activate the brakes if you "push through" the electronic portion of the brake pedal. But, this does take more effort than most people are used to.

Click to expand...

In my experience, that is not how the brakes work at all. Friction braking will kick in well before the final 10% in normal circumstances and can kick in at the very top under the right circumstances. The computer determines when to apply regen or friction (or both simultaneously) based on pedal pressure, ability to regen, and other variables. There is no specific location at which the pedal changes to (or adds in) friction braking. If you take your shoes off, you can feel when friction gets added in. They did a very good job in getting the blending right so it is barely perceptible when friction kicks in (unlike many other cars where it is like going over a speed bump 15mph too fast).

Click to expand...

As I originally wrote (bolded above), the first 90% of the pedal travel is telling the computer you want to slow down. It decides what mix of regen and friction brakes to use. So, yes, if you brake aggressively the friction brakes will be used during the top 90% of pedal travel. The bottom 10% of the pedal is not normally used. It's there for an emergency and let's you directly engage the brake master cylinder to activate the friction brakes.