Battery does condition w/o plug

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evboy

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 12, 2015
Messages
198
I read a few posts here that said the battery conditioning doesnt come on unless its plugged in. This isnt true. I charged my car to full and saw all the numbers on Energy showing zero. Since I owned the car I never saw the conditioning ever have a percentage. Now that Vegas is hot as hell I checked yesterday for the first time and it showed 11% after being outside for 8 hours while at work. it was 106 degrees yesterday. Then i went to bed at 8pm and woke up at 12 and went to my car again. the conditioning showed 14 percent and it was night time when i parked it. Still over 100 degrees tho. I think the reason the owners manual says to keep it plugged in with extreme heat is so you can use the wall outlet to cool the battery instead of using up the battery to cool when not plugged in.

GM did a really good job with all the high tech stuff they did to protect the battery instead of trying to save money like nissan did with the leaf. I am very confident that our sparky with thermal mgmt will run for a very long time. I really feel the spark is the best used car value on the market for under 10k. How these cars arent selling like hot cakes on the used market is beyond me. Its literally a free car if u pay under 10 when u count the gas savings.
 
"I read a few posts here that said the battery conditioning doesn't come on unless its plugged in. This isn't true. "

As far as I know it comes on whenever plugged OR ON and needed. So it will definitely come on in winter and summer when the car is running if the battery is too cold or too hot.

Normally it wont come on when the car is OFF AND unplugged. Although some people mentioned that if the battery has enough charge and the conditions are extreme, it will come on even if the car is OFF AND unplugged
 
scrambler said:
"I read a few posts here that said the battery conditioning doesn't come on unless its plugged in. This isn't true. "

As far as I know it comes on whenever plugged OR ON and needed. So it will definitely come on in winter and summer when the car is running if the battery is too cold or too hot.

Normally it wont come on when the car is OFF AND unplugged. Although some people mentioned that if the battery has enough charge and the conditions are extreme, it will come on even if the car is OFF AND unplugged
mine was off everytime. it only makes sense to come on when its exposed to extreme temps when off ,otherwise it defeats the purpose to protect the battery if it only protects when on or plugged.
 
But if you leave your Spark EV at the airport in very hot or cold conditions, you could return to a car with very low SOC.
I thought it does not use power on its own for TMS if not plugged in.
Maybe it does, but this should be mentioned in the manual.

I have read that Tesla's do use battery power to run TMS but only from 100% down to 80%.
Same reason. You don't want to return to a car that runs down its battery if left unplugged.
 
norton, makes sense what your saying. I still rather TMS turn on and use some of the battery to cool it, even if it does run it down some. there is no mention in manual if it turns on with such and such SOC left. they only mention leaving it plugged in when the weather is extreme. They seem to be implying that energy from the wall will be conditioning the battery so u wont lose any miles from the TMS kicking in on battery power alone.

I just plugged it in with 5 miles left on battery. it showed 29% conditioning on the battery since i charged it to full last . That sounds right because i didnt get shit in mileage this go around before i had to charge it. 29% is 24 miles lost to conditioning. ill take it. at least u know in real time everytime u start it up that it took some miles away. its 115 degrees today. they have to protect the battery.
 
nikwax said:
My battery conditioning came on last winter when it was in the 20's and not plugged in. Clearly/hopefully it comes on when it needs to.
That implies that the contactor is engaged without the ignition on - or the EVSE connected.

The cooling system requires the high-voltage to operate the compressor, that in turn requires the contactor to be engaged. It is a potential safety issue in that applying HV to the motor controller could cause the car to start moving without a driver or anyone present.

I am skeptical that it does that. Tesla vehicles are the only ones I know of that enable the contactor without the ignition on or being charged (it also doesn't have a power off button!).

When the EVSE is connected there is an inhibit signal that goes to the motor controller to prevent operation even if a throttle command is given.

When I had my Spark I did see battery conditioning active a couple of times when the car was left out at night in the winter (SF bay area), but I never saw any evidence of it being active unless the ignition was on.

kevin
 
I read this post and thought I would try an experiment. I also live in Las Vegas.

I drove to work this morning, then took a picture of the energy details screen. Then I left the car unplugged in the parking lot all day and took a picture immediately when I got in the car around 5pm. Battery condition showed 0% and outside temp is 127F. I took a final picture when I got home and it showed 5% battery condition.

So, my results seem to show that the battery conditioning does not engage when it's not plugged in.

Before Work - https://ibb.co/iP7FiQ
After Work - https://ibb.co/hgVqHk
Home - https://ibb.co/jbc4ck
 
LVSpark said:
I read this post and thought I would try an experiment. I also live in Las Vegas.

I drove to work this morning, then took a picture of the energy details screen. Then I left the car unplugged in the parking lot all day and took a picture immediately when I got in the car around 5pm. Battery condition showed 0% and outside temp is 127F. I took a final picture when I got home and it showed 5% battery condition.

So, my results seem to show that the battery conditioning does not engage when it's not plugged in.

Before Work - https://ibb.co/iP7FiQ
After Work - https://ibb.co/hgVqHk
Home - https://ibb.co/jbc4ck
i clearly remember parking the car and seeing a number and then when i left the next day for work the number was about 3 to 5 points higher. i actually checked it like that a few times and the number was higher the next day compared to when i parked it. i will do another check tomorrow after my car finishes charging in a few hours. I wouldnt have started this thread if it wasnt true in my case. i dont understand why it isnt true for u.
 
kevin said:
nikwax said:
My battery conditioning came on last winter when it was in the 20's and not plugged in. Clearly/hopefully it comes on when it needs to.
That implies that the contactor is engaged without the ignition on.

The cooling system requires the HV to operate the compressor, that in turn requires the contactor to be engaged. It is a potential safety issue in that applying HV to the motor controller could cause the car to start moving without a driver or anyone present.

I am skeptical that it does that. Tesla vehicles are the only ones I know of that enable the contactor without the ignition (it also doesn't have a power off button!).

When I had my Spark I did see battery conditioning active a couple of times when the car was left out at night in the winter (SF bay area), but I never saw any evidence of it being active unless the ignition was on.

kevin
What year of Spark EV do you have? In this hot weather in Central California, I have seen battery conditioning % show up on my 2015 Spark EV but not on my 2014 Spark EV. Perhaps they are programmed differently.
 
MrDRMorgan said:
What year of Spark EV do you have? In this hot weather in Central California, I have seen battery conditioning % show up on my 2015 Spark EV but not on my 2014 Spark EV. Perhaps they are programmed differently.

I was thinking the same thing. I have a 2014 and it clearly does not engage TMS while off, even in extreme heat. Maybe they added this feature in 2015 and later?
 
LVSpark said:
MrDRMorgan said:
What year of Spark EV do you have? In this hot weather in Central California, I have seen battery conditioning % show up on my 2015 Spark EV but not on my 2014 Spark EV. Perhaps they are programmed differently.

I was thinking the same thing. I have a 2014 and it clearly does not engage TMS while off, even in extreme heat. Maybe they added this feature in 2015 and later?
I had some errands to do today so I took the fully charged 2015 Spark EV for a spin. Outside temp was around 100 deg. F. After driving about 35 miles with a few stops in between, I noticed the battery condition read 1%.

My fully-charged 2014 sat in the hot garage (100 deg. F). At 4:30 pm the energy info screen for my 2014 Spark EV showed 0% for battery conditioning. I plugged in the L1 EVSE and immediately I heard fans and pumps come on. This suggest to me that the 2014 Spark EV needs to be plugged in to maintain battery conditioning.

My 2014 Spark EV charging data for the last 15 months - (113 charging sessions total) does not show a single entry >0% for battery conditioning. On the other hand, my charging data for the 2015 Spark EV shows 15 separate entries (127 charging sessions total) for battery conditioning.

I will be keeping the 2014 Spark EV plugged in for the duration of the hot summer season.
 
MrDRMorgan said:
LVSpark said:
... >I plugged in the L1 EVSE and immediately I heard fans and pumps come on. .

>My 2014 Spark EV charging data ... (113 charging sessions total) does not show a single entry >0% for battery conditioning.
On the other hand, my charging data for the 2015 Spark EV shows 15 separate entries (127 charging sessions total) for battery conditioning.

>I will be keeping the 2014 Spark EV plugged in for the duration of the hot summer season.
>Technically you are hearing the fans and the AC compressor stepping up thru their multi speeds. I think the tiny water pumps are fairly quiet.

>Now this is news you can use !
Was this a learning curve on Chevy's part?
Was it easier or more needed (due to different chemistries) to cool the '15's pack with its inter-cell 'plates' vs the '14's with one big base plate?

>Happy battery temp @ 100% SOC or Battery stored long term at 40% SOC, regardless of temp? So many variables... Who knows in regards to 'Shelf Life' factors for these packs?

I realize you are probably using both cars daily so you have to keep the battery temps happy before putting them into service.
 
NORTON said:
MrDRMorgan said:
LVSpark said:
... >I plugged in the L1 EVSE and immediately I heard fans and pumps come on. .

>My 2014 Spark EV charging data ... (113 charging sessions total) does not show a single entry >0% for battery conditioning.
On the other hand, my charging data for the 2015 Spark EV shows 15 separate entries (127 charging sessions total) for battery conditioning.

>I will be keeping the 2014 Spark EV plugged in for the duration of the hot summer season.
>Technically you are hearing the fans and the AC compressor stepping up thru their multi speeds. I think the tiny water pumps are fairly quiet.

>Now this is news you can use !
Was this a learning curve on Chevy's part?
Was it easier or more needed (due to different chemistries) to cool the '15's pack with its inter-cell 'plates' vs the '14's with one big base plate?

>Happy battery temp @ 100% SOC or Battery stored long term at 40% SOC, regardless of temp? So many variables... Who knows in regards to 'Shelf Life' factors for these packs?

I realize you are probably using both cars daily so you have to keep the battery temps happy before putting them into service.

2014 Spark EV Addendum: Last night, about 3 hours after the "battery conditioning has finished, I reset the power meter at the wall. This morning the meter read 310 watts. A little of that is the meter but most is something in the car needing some power. I left the 2014 plugged in and reset the power meter this morning. After 6 hours, the meter still read 0000. Garage temperature at 2pm is 90 deg. F.
 
MrDRMorgan said:
...2014 Spark EV Addendum: Last night, about 3 hours after the "battery conditioning has finished, I reset the power meter at the wall. This morning the meter read 310 watts. ... I left the 2014 plugged in and reset the power meter this morning. After 6 hours, the meter still read 0000. Garage temperature at 2pm is 90 deg. F.
I assume you mean 310 Wh, which isn't much.
But anyway, what was that power used for? TMS or BMS? Either way, it was a little more 'housekeeping' that the car's pack thought it needed.

I wonder how a Bolt would handle your driving and the environment where you live?
It has the same 'Base-plate' TMS for the cells as the '14 Spark EV, but it has more development knowledge for taking care of the pack.
It is the 3rd BEV pack arrangement in the Chevy lineup, not counting the EV 1.
 
NORTON said:
MrDRMorgan said:
...2014 Spark EV Addendum: Last night, about 3 hours after the "battery conditioning has finished, I reset the power meter at the wall. This morning the meter read 310 watts. ... I left the 2014 plugged in and reset the power meter this morning. After 6 hours, the meter still read 0000. Garage temperature at 2pm is 90 deg. F.
I assume you mean 310 Wh, which isn't much.
But anyway, what was that power used for? TMS or BMS? Either way, it was a little more 'housekeeping' that the car's pack thought it needed.

I wonder how a Bolt would handle your driving and the environment where you live?
It has the same 'Base-plate' TMS for the cells as the '14 Spark EV, but it has more development knowledge for taking care of the pack.
It is the 3rd BEV pack arrangement in the Chevy lineup, not counting the EV 1.

My typo error. The meter registered 0.310 kWh.

Interesting - this morning the meter read 0.350 kWh. I reset the meter yesterday afternoon and, last night before retiring for the night, I checked the meter and it read 0.002 kWh. Also, the car was fully charged when I checked it last night. I am going to leave the car plugged in today and see if this repeats when I check the meter tomorrow morning. Friday the high was 104 deg. F. Yesterday the high was 97 deg. F. Today, Sunday, it also should be 97 deg. F.

6/26/17:
The high temperature Sunday was 93 deg. F. This morning the meter read 0.06 kWh.
 
NORTON said:
MrDRMorgan said:
LVSpark said:
... >I plugged in the L1 EVSE and immediately I heard fans and pumps come on. .

>My 2014 Spark EV charging data ... (113 charging sessions total) does not show a single entry >0% for battery conditioning.
On the other hand, my charging data for the 2015 Spark EV shows 15 separate entries (127 charging sessions total) for battery conditioning.

>I will be keeping the 2014 Spark EV plugged in for the duration of the hot summer season.
>Technically you are hearing the fans and the AC compressor stepping up thru their multi speeds. I think the tiny water pumps are fairly quiet.

>Now this is news you can use !
Was this a learning curve on Chevy's part?
Was it easier or more needed (due to different chemistries) to cool the '15's pack with its inter-cell 'plates' vs the '14's with one big base plate?

>Happy battery temp @ 100% SOC or Battery stored long term at 40% SOC, regardless of temp? So many variables... Who knows in regards to 'Shelf Life' factors for these packs?

I realize you are probably using both cars daily so you have to keep the battery temps happy before putting them into service.

Would the conditioning occur while plugged in, but before charging started? If you were plugged into L2 @ 50%, then you would need ~3.5 hours (give or take) to get to full charge. I assume that if departure time is set that charging only comes on when needed.

You'd have to set departure time a couple times a day (does that part of the app work if you are past the OnStar trial?), but then you could maintain storage levels on the battery and still get conditioning.

What about plugging it in, then immediately canceling the charge, but leave the charge cord in? Would the car still recognize that is was plugged in and pull power for conditioning (yet not charge the batteries)?
 
67goat said:
..What about plugging it in, then immediately canceling the charge, but leave the charge cord in? Would the car still recognize that is was plugged in and pull power for conditioning (yet not charge the batteries)?
Ha, funny that was always my question. And I still don't know the answer...
I want to have Thermal Management System running during the dead of winter, when plugged in at home, but not 'Charge at home'. I can easily do a round trip to work where I have free public charging.
(It's true, I'm a cheap azz). {Do you know how much I spent on electrons to drive 33k miles? I stopped talking about it because I rarely get a positive reaction to the answer. [close to Zero !!]}

When plugged In Thermal Management (TMS) runs when required, hot or cold. And I thought doesn't run at all when unplugged. But is sounds like it may if at 100% SOC, the way Tesla does it.

The Battery Management System (BMS) , the way I understand it, only operates once the battery has been charged to 100% SOC, then it 'Balances' the cell groups. The slightly low ones are brought up to the others, or the the high ones are drained down to match the rest. There are two ways to balance a pack. I have no idea how the Sparks BMS works.

But when you see ~600 W being drawn after the charge is complete , that is TMS or BMS in action.
 
67goat said:
What about plugging it in, then immediately canceling the charge, but leave the charge cord in? Would the car still recognize that is was plugged in and pull power for conditioning (yet not charge the batteries)?

I am pretty sure that if plugged in, the battery TMS will run if needed regardless of whether you are charging or not.

As long as the car is plugged in, it can use the power from the grid to run conditioning, and not deplete the battery.
So if the battery needs any kind of care under that condition it will be taking care of itself using the grid power.
 
That seems logical, so for people storing in hot environs, they should try that. That way they can store at 40-60% but still get the benefit of conditioning.
 
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