MrDRMorgan
Posts: 886
Joined: Wed Oct 30, 2013 7:27 am
Location: Manteca, California

Re: Bought my Spark EV ;)

Wed Jan 23, 2019 3:13 pm

SparkE wrote:
Wed Jan 23, 2019 1:04 pm
MrDRMorgan wrote:
Wed Jan 23, 2019 9:09 am
Thanks for the post. Very informative. I usually charge to 90-95% when I use DCFC to charge my 2016 Spark EV. At home I charge to 100% overnight using my L2 EVSE. During hot summer nights when my garage is very hot, I use the Departure Time charging feature and set the completion time to a time past the time that will give me approximately 80% of full charge at the time I actually want to use the car the next morning. It takes a bit of experimenting to determine the end time needed to give 80% of full charge and you must take into consideration the charging rate you are using. But... it works!

So far, my highest battery temperature at the time of measurement is 88 deg. F and the lowest is 59 deg. F for the time interval of June 18 thru January 19. 38 measurements were taken during this time interval. I see similar results for my 2014 Spark EV which does not have DCFC. Battery capacity degradation over this same time interval is 0.7 kWh for my 2014 Spark EV and 0.8 kWh for my 2016 Spark EV. The degradation numbers for both cars track perfectly so I am assuming it is due to the drop in ambient temperature between June 18 and January 19. I will know this assumption is correct if these numbers continue to track together and start to rise as the ambient temperature starts rising as we move towards summer.

Regardless, I will take my TorquePro equipment with me the next time I use DCFC and see what the battery temp is immediately after a 95% charge. I need to do this in the hot summer too. This morning it was 37 deg. F outside here in Manteca, CA but my garage was 55 deg. F.
Personally, as I mentioned, I don't like fast charging past 75% or so - because heat kills. In the winter, (well, with a cold battery pack to start) it's not as important (IMO) because the pack (and its sunk heat) are cooler to start, AND the heat will radiate away faster at 40F ambient. Personally, I wouldn't want the temp of the battery to get much over 80 degrees. Also, with EVgo, you are paying by the minute and the charging rate (kW) starts dropping around 75-80% (although it doesn't get really low until 88-90% - 22-25kW). But if you need the charge for the trip (and reserve safety), you need the charge for the trip.

You must be feeling pretty spoiled now, what with all the EVgo stations that are now between Manteca and the Bay Area. One in Tracy for "OMG! I need 5 kWh to get home!!!", a whole row of sites (?4? ?7?) in Livermore/Pleasanton, 2 units (one site) in Hayward, and then a slew off I-880 on the eastshore of the bay. Quite a difference from 2-3 years ago, eh? (Note: there is a somewhat inexpensive ChargePoint 125A/50kW DCFC under the approach to the Dumbarton bridge (CA-84) in Newark : $0.12/kWh - useful for a "top up" for tooling around the bay, or before heading home if you are passing nearby. There's also an identical FREE charger up in Richmond {but that's a ways north} off I-580 at the Rosie the Riveter museum.)


I have "heat pump rpm" and "heat coolant temp" gauges enabled in Torque - I haven't seen them in use yet, due to my OCD babying of the pack.

I know that in the Bolt, the battery cooling turns on earlier (lower bat temp), and runs/cools at a higher/faster rate if the A/C is on inside the car. Next time you are fast charging the Spark and the bat temp goes over (say) 80/81, try turning on the A/C to see if that activates the heat pump or cools the battery coolant fluid. As a data point.
When my wife returned home from her running around, the battery temp was 57 deg. F. I drove 10 miles to my nearest EVgo station. When I arrived, the battery temperature was 59 deg. F. After 17 minutes DCFC charging to 95%, the battery temp was 75 deg. F. The battery temp was 77 deg. F when I drove 10 miles to return home. Today the GOM read 89 miles after the DCFC charging.

We seldom venture outside the one-charge range of either of my Spark EVs. But, when we do and need to use a DCFC, the closest one going South is in Salida which is 10 miles away. This location only has one DCFC combo station and is the one we use the most. Two more combo stations are located 2 miles further South on HWY 99 in Modesto and one more in Ceres. Going West I have the one in Tracy followed by a number of others in the Livermore and Pleasanton area. These are also heavily used and, per PlugShare posts, many are often ICEed or broken. I usually use the DCFC stations at the San Francisco Premium Outlets and the Pacific Pearl Shopping Center when I have to travel to the Oakland area. Going North on HWY 99 there are a number of DCFC locations that are available plus more are appearing. The closest one going North is 35 miles from my home and the next one is 45 miles from my home.

We have ventured to Davis, Roseville, South Lake Tahoe, San Jose, Gilroy, Hollister, etc. and are able to do so without any problems because EVgo, Charge Point and Greenlots DCFC stations are available. I have even taken a run to Fresno just to see if I could make it - I did.

Finally, Does DCFC cause battery degradation? I really do not know for sure. I have been using TorquePro since June 2018 and have measured the battery capacity degradation in my 2014 Spark EV w/o DCFC as well as in my 2016 Spark EV with DCFC. So far, the 2016 Spark EV is degrading just slightly more than the 2014 Spark EV. I suspect some of the measured degradation is due to the drop in ambient temperature. If this is true, I should start to see the measured battery capacity readings start to increase as we approach spring and summer temperatures.

Another variable I may need to factor in is the number of miles driven. The measured battery capacity in my 2014 spark EV has dropped 0.7 kWh since June of 2018 and the car has been driven about 2800 miles since then. The ODO currently reads about 17k miles. The measured battery capacity in my 2016 Spark EV has dropped 0.9 kWh since June of 2018 and the car has been driven about 6000 miles. The ODO currently reads about 16K miles.

During the hot summer last year and while doing L2 charging in my very hot garage, using TorquePro, I did observe the AC circuit spin up to cool the battery. I do not remember at what temperature it turned on but it was hot!

Sorry for all of the information but possibly it will help someone.
Last edited by MrDRMorgan on Wed Jan 23, 2019 6:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

NORTON
Posts: 1190
Joined: Fri May 01, 2015 5:52 am
Location: KC,MO

Re: Bought my Spark EV ;)

Wed Jan 23, 2019 3:19 pm

SparkE wrote:
Wed Jan 23, 2019 1:04 pm
.... Next time you are fast charging the Spark and the bat temp goes over (say) 80/81, try turning on the A/C to see if that activates the heat pump or cools the battery coolant fluid. As a data point.
Even though the PID says 'Heat Pump' the Spark EV, Volt and Bolt don't technically have 'Heat Pumps'. They have normal AC compressors.
When that is running it is cooling both the cabin evaporator in the climate control system and cooling the battery coolant heat exchanger.
There is no way to seperate those functions. Maybe that label is for the battery coolant circulating pump.

Man, I need to get my Torque Pro app working so I can see the data you guys are seeing !!!
Used '14 2LT w/ DCFC.
+64k miles. Only one LONG visit to the shop....
GM needs Modern Troubleshooting tools for Modern EV's.

SparkE
Posts: 303
Joined: Tue Sep 06, 2016 1:18 am

Re: Bought my Spark EV ;)

Wed Jan 23, 2019 6:11 pm

NORTON wrote:
Wed Jan 23, 2019 3:19 pm
SparkE wrote:
Wed Jan 23, 2019 1:04 pm
.... Next time you are fast charging the Spark and the bat temp goes over (say) 80/81, try turning on the A/C to see if that activates the heat pump or cools the battery coolant fluid. As a data point.
Even though the PID says 'Heat Pump' the Spark EV, Volt and Bolt don't technically have 'Heat Pumps'. They have normal AC compressors.
When that is running it is cooling both the cabin evaporator in the climate control system and cooling the battery coolant heat exchanger.
There is no way to seperate those functions. Maybe that label is for the battery coolant circulating pump.

Man, I need to get my Torque Pro app working so I can see the data you guys are seeing !!!

Changed my post to say ""battery coolant pump rpm"" - and yes, I meant that if one turns on the A/C when it is hot it *should* start cooling the liquid that keeps the battery pack cool - a "good thing™ " to do early when charging on hot, hot days.

Brucem5755
Posts: 1
Joined: Sun Nov 18, 2018 6:27 am

Re: Bought my Spark EV ;)

Fri Feb 08, 2019 6:40 am

By chance does anyone have the csv file with all the pid's for the spark they could send to me? The only file i have ever found online was one for the volt.

MrDRMorgan
Posts: 886
Joined: Wed Oct 30, 2013 7:27 am
Location: Manteca, California

Re: Bought my Spark EV ;)

Fri Feb 08, 2019 8:39 am

Brucem5755 wrote:
Fri Feb 08, 2019 6:40 am
By chance does anyone have the csv file with all the pid's for the spark they could send to me? The only file i have ever found online was one for the volt.
PM me your email address and I will send you the OBD2 .CSV file and installation instructions for an Android device like a tablet. I originally downloaded these from the Bolt forum. They were originally published on the Bolt forum by Sean Graham.

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