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 Post subject: Re: DC fast charging: J1772 CCS vs CHAdeMO vs Supercharger,
PostPosted: Wed Dec 11, 2013 4:32 pm 
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cwerdna wrote:
The J1772 CCS plug is pretty large too. As for where OEM puts the plug, co-existing, etc. that's what happens when some players decide to use an existing ICE platform and want to put the port where the gas hole went. Many current J1772 AC charging vehicles only (e.g. Volt and FFE) don't even have space at the inlet side for the additional 2 pins where Frankenplug goes.


Yep, that was their early talking points; easy to use in converted oil burners, which meant they didn't have to make an additional refueling port, or develop a purpose built battery electric vehicle. Of course, the Spark EV uses a separate plug location from its oil burner cousin Spark, and the purpose built a BMW i3 uses two ports on its battery electric car with the 650cc motorcycle engine. Even a Volt uses two ports, one for oil and one for electrons.

In my 36,000 miles of driving with both a J1772 receptacle and a CHAdeMO receptacle in the same port, having two individual receptacles never was even the tiniest issue for me, the end user. Putting ports on the rear of the car, like Tesla, Toyota Rav4 EV and BMW i3... big pain in the posterior.

cwerdna wrote:
Got a press release or reputable source that says the JDM (Honda) Accord PHEV has CHAdeMO? It's not listed at http://www.chademo.com/wp/chademo-ev/.


Honda currently puts a CHAdeMO receptacle in their Japan market Fit EV, so I'm not surprised they'd put one in something else for Japan, even if only an engineering excercise. Everything leased here in the USA that Honda makes is absolute minimum quantity to be crushed at the end. They definitely aren't promoting CHAdeMO any more than they are promoting EV's. Honda is just a Japanese GM when it comes to EV's. Toyota, too.

Both Honda and Toyota will be on the hydrogen bandwagon for the 2015 - 2017 model years, producing 1/3 as many Zero Emission Vehicles (ZEV) as they did with battery electric cars for 2012-2014; Toyota will make 2600 Rav4 EV battery electric ZEV's and Honda will make 1100, sold only in CARB states. Hydrogen cars get THREE TIMES as many ZEV credits per vehicle, 9 versus 3 through 2017.

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 Post subject: Re: DC fast charging: J1772 CCS vs CHAdeMO vs Supercharger,
PostPosted: Wed Dec 11, 2013 6:38 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jul 26, 2013 3:52 pm
Posts: 251
Location: Inner East S.F. Bay Area
FWIW, when I test drove a Spark EV I was surprised at how much less real estate was taken up by the J1772 combo and door compared to the LEAF's much larger door for the separate receptacles. I don't think the CCS plug is an elegant design, rather a reasonable and low cost kludge compared to CHAdeMO. Even if CCS only saves an automaker $10/car, once you get into major volumes that can add up to a good-sized chunk of change.

I'm on record as saying that if I were EV Czar we'd all move to the Tesla standard in the U.S., but given the choice between CHAdeMO and CCS I'd opt for the latter, assuming that they get installed around here in a reasonable amount of time. But I'll happily use whichever the car is equipped with. Quite frankly, I think wireless is where we'll all be in a few years, making this particular standards war irrelevant. I am not persuaded by the number of CHAdeMOs worldwide, as I and I imagine most drivers have no intention of shipping my car overseas - all I care about is the number installed here in the U.S., and of more immediate concern, how many are and will be installed locally in the places I need them. The # of CHAdeMOs in the U.S. gives them a by no means insurmountable lead at the moment, compared to CCS. If we want to go by the biggest market, shouldn't we all accept whatever standard China does (and that won't be CHAdeMO)?


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 Post subject: Re: DC fast charging: J1772 CCS vs CHAdeMO vs Supercharger,
PostPosted: Wed Dec 11, 2013 7:10 pm 
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Nashco wrote:
As mentioned earlier, I'm speaking with my pocketbook. I'm really excited for my Spark EV with DC fast charging to arrive. I'd be really damn surprised if it showed up with a chademo connector on it (or didn't show up with a DC charge connector at all) because of a few internet warriors slamming the SAE standard anywhere they can find a soapbox to stand on.

Bryce


For all the attacks, you'd think you actually READ through the thread!!! Nobody is suggesting the GM will do ANYTHING with CHAdeMO.

Quite the opposite. They will continue to follow their path the attempt to thwart the competition with their German partners in the USA.

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 Post subject: Re: DC fast charging: J1772 CCS vs CHAdeMO vs Supercharger,
PostPosted: Wed Dec 11, 2013 8:37 pm 
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gra wrote:
... If we want to go by the biggest market, shouldn't we all accept whatever standard China does (and that won't be CHAdeMO)?


That's obviously not going to happen, nor considered. Non sequitur. I'll take the Tesla plug for all the reasons listed above:


Here's the Tesla charge plug for the rest of the world besides the USA / Canada:

Image


The Tesla charge port for the USA / Canada:

Image


Image

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 Post subject: Re: DC fast charging: J1772 CCS vs CHAdeMO vs Supercharger,
PostPosted: Wed Dec 11, 2013 10:43 pm 
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Joined: Sun Nov 03, 2013 12:35 am
Posts: 479
Location: SF Bay Area, CA
TonyWilliams wrote:
In my 36,000 miles of driving with both a J1772 receptacle and a CHAdeMO receptacle in the same port, having two individual receptacles never was even the tiniest issue for me, the end user. Putting ports on the rear of the car, like Tesla, Toyota Rav4 EV and BMW i3... big pain in the posterior.

Besides putting them in the rear, putting them on the side is goofy.

The way some of charging stations vs. the spots themselves are arranged at my work, some of the Volt drivers have to back in in order for the cable to reach. Today, I tried to unplug a Volt that was finished and plug in another waiting Volt, but the cable wouldn't reach. I've parked in the same spot many times before and it reaches the Leaf's port in the front center just fine.

That waiting Volt is a newbie who just got their car. Fortunately, they weren't a mystery car (added themselves to our internal "voluntary" EV/PHEV list), so I was able to send the owner an email.

I've briefly spoken to another Volt driver @ my work (I don't work w/him so I don't know him) who sometimes has to back in and he agrees that front center is the best place.


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 Post subject: Re: DC fast charging: J1772 CCS vs CHAdeMO vs Supercharger,
PostPosted: Thu Dec 12, 2013 4:46 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jun 23, 2013 9:31 pm
Posts: 145
Location: Southern California
TonyWilliams wrote:
Image


If the Tesla owner would have just backed into the parking spot, there would be no need for an extension? :D

TonyWilliams wrote:
Image


Tony, Great product, very useful for certain charging situations.


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 Post subject: Re: DC fast charging: J1772 CCS vs CHAdeMO vs Supercharger,
PostPosted: Thu Dec 12, 2013 4:57 pm 
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Joined: Sun Nov 24, 2013 9:47 pm
Posts: 75
Location: Oakland, California
cwerdna wrote:
Besides putting them in the rear, putting them on the side is goofy.

Perhaps. But the Spark is so short and so narrow that the front quarter location seems ok, it's only about three feet away from the front center anyway.

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 Post subject: Re: DC fast charging: J1772 CCS vs CHAdeMO vs Supercharger,
PostPosted: Thu Dec 12, 2013 5:59 pm 
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Joined: Sun Nov 24, 2013 9:47 pm
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Location: Oakland, California
Well, ABB seem recently to have gotten UL listing for a DC charge point with both CHAdeMO and CCS support.

Image

So maybe the difficulties are not insurmountable.

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 Post subject: Re: DC fast charging: J1772 CCS vs CHAdeMO vs Supercharger,
PostPosted: Thu Dec 12, 2013 11:34 pm 
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Location: SF Bay Area, CA
Oberon wrote:
cwerdna wrote:
Besides putting them in the rear, putting them on the side is goofy.

Perhaps. But the Spark is so short and so narrow that the front quarter location seems ok, it's only about three feet away from the front center anyway.

Where that guy parked and the way our Chargepoint EVSEs are installed (wasn't up to me, they were there long before I started at that company), it still wouldn't reach.

Heck, if I park in that spot w/my Leaf and I'm too far back in the spot or that coupled w/being too far left, it won't reach my Leaf's inlet which is in the front and slightly offset from the center (to make room for the CHAdeMO inlet next to it).


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 Post subject: Re: DC fast charging: J1772 CCS vs CHAdeMO vs Supercharger,
PostPosted: Fri Dec 13, 2013 9:09 am 
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Oberon wrote:
Well, ABB seem recently to have gotten UL listing...
So maybe the difficulties are not insurmountable.


I'm not sure they have a US specification Frankenplug listed. The one that was installed in San Diego (that I was present for the inauguration) is a Euro specification unit that required a Euro spec transformer (380/400 volt).

No UL listing on that, nor would the transformer meet US voltage standards (it was shipped in from Europe along with the charger).

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