Thinking about the spark for a crazy commute- bad idea?

I have the opposite commute (Marina del Rey to Irvine), and the original poster has my condolences

gra said:

Spark EV:

Will work for this commute for at least three and probably four years, but only if you have guaranteed charging at both ends, preferably L2 rather than L1. You'd need to buy it. I'd opt for the CCS QC option for $750, just in case the battery deteriorates more rapidly than is likely; there will be CCS QCs in SoCal, at least 110 in the LA metro area and another 20 in San Diego, over the next three years or so. If you go with a Spark, I strongly recommend getting a 2014 instead of a 2015, even if you'd really like to have a Spark in one of the new colors. Changes to the 2015's battery and transmission ratio will almost certainly reduce its highway cruising range, as well as changing to a less heat-tolerant and lower cycle-life battery chemistry that make the long-term durability more suspect.

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I would not rule out the 2015 Spark EV yet. The Chevy page for it just went live a few days ago, and they are claiming identical EPA range and city/highway efficiency numbers.

All of the reports I've seen that claim the battery is smaller reference the "Overall Capacity" comment. I believe this was a poorly-worded refence to the "useable capacity" rather than the total "raw capacity" of the batteries. If not, then the already high charging and drivetrain efficiencies must have increased to exactly compensate.

The increased drive ratio in the 2015 (3.17 was changed to 3.87) is balanced by a reduced torque at the motor (400 lb-ft changed to 327) to give the same max torque at the wheel (about 1270 lb-ft.). The 0-60 mi/h time also drops from 7.6s to 7.2s, but I guess you'd have to see the updated torque/power curves to find out what's going on.

All that said, I would REALLY like to see a highway-speed range test of the actual car before buying.

HarleyQuinn321 said:

Hi Guys,

I work in Santa Monica but my husband just got a job in San Diego. Because I have enrolled in my employer's tuition reimbursement program, I have a 4 year obligation to my job and can't get a job down there.

We are splitting the commute difference and moving to Irvine--a 50 mile one way-trip for me. To make the commute more tolerable I want to get a car that is eligible for the white single occupant carpool sticker. My work has a charging station in the parking lot and I will be living right by a DC Fast Charging Station in Irvine.

Since my commute won't qualify me for a lease...I plan on buying but have a few reservations. I understand the battery will deteriorate over time--but how quickly? I plan on getting a charging station installed in Irvine, but will fast charging frequently significantly deteriorate the battery? Are there better vehicle options for my commute? After 4 years I will (hopefully) be living/working in San Diego and should have a significantly shorter commute.


Thanks for reading and any insight would be very much appreciated!

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You will do fine if you aren't going 75-80MPH all the time. Plus actually going with traffic versus the carpool lane may gain you a few miles due to regen here and there.

I'll give you a realistic scenario.

Last week I went to Ventura from Burbank. It was about 65 miles one way...and there's a rather steep hill on the way back from Ventura.

From Burbank I started out with 108 miles (I'm getting around 5.5 miles/kWh since my acquisition). Upon arriving in Ventura, I was down to 57 miles.

There were plenty of charging stations around and I plugged in as soon as I got there.

On returning, I started out with 109 miles and ended with 48 miles. For a number of reasons....the hill on the way back up to the valley is pretty steep and long. (This is the 101). I also wasn't taking my time coming back...I was hauling butt.

The car performed flawlessly.

One thing to keep in mind...if you can take the train to Irvine to/from your work/school/whatever...why not do that? In the end, even having an EV versus not needing a car I'd still choose not needing one.

My 2c.

NateCrawford said:

gra said:

Spark EV:

Will work for this commute for at least three and probably four years, but only if you have guaranteed charging at both ends, preferably L2 rather than L1. You'd need to buy it. I'd opt for the CCS QC option for $750, just in case the battery deteriorates more rapidly than is likely; there will be CCS QCs in SoCal, at least 110 in the LA metro area and another 20 in San Diego, over the next three years or so. If you go with a Spark, I strongly recommend getting a 2014 instead of a 2015, even if you'd really like to have a Spark in one of the new colors. Changes to the 2015's battery and transmission ratio will almost certainly reduce its highway cruising range, as well as changing to a less heat-tolerant and lower cycle-life battery chemistry that make the long-term durability more suspect.

Click to expand...

I would not rule out the 2015 Spark EV yet. The Chevy page for it just went live a few days ago, and they are claiming identical EPA range and city/highway efficiency numbers.

All of the reports I've seen that claim the battery is smaller reference the "Overall Capacity" comment. I believe this was a poorly-worded refence to the "useable capacity" rather than the total "raw capacity" of the batteries. If not, then the already high charging and drivetrain efficiencies must have increased to exactly compensate.

The increased drive ratio in the 2015 (3.17 was changed to 3.87) is balanced by a reduced torque at the motor (400 lb-ft changed to 327) to give the same max torque at the wheel (about 1270 lb-ft.). The 0-60 mi/h time also drops from 7.6s to 7.2s, but I guess you'd have to see the updated torque/power curves to find out what's going on.

All that said, I would REALLY like to see a highway-speed range test of the actual car before buying.

Click to expand...

I'm not ruling it out, I'm saying that given what we know, every indication is that the 2014 will be more suitable for this commute than a 2015 for the necessary period of time. The 2015 may well work, but why take the chance absent better real-world evidence?

gra said:

I'm not ruling it out, I'm saying that given what we know, every indication is that the 2014 will be more suitable for this commute than a 2015 for the necessary period of time. The 2015 may well work, but why take the chance absent better real-world evidence?

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Exactly. Given what we know (10% smaller battery) and it HIGHLY unlikely that either the car is:

1) Lighter
2) Significantly more aerodynamic
3) Significantly more efficient drivetrain (electrics in general are very high already)

Saw an article on one of the EV sites that says 2015 Spark EVs are showing up, so decision time is here if the OP is getting one.

Darn, too bad about the 2015 being detuned from 400lb ft to 327lb ft. Who knows, maybe the 2014's will be coveted and hoarded . Like the purchaser of a 1971 Nova SS 350 wishing they had a 1970 Nova SS 350 instead.
Any word if the HP ratings of the 2015 are changed or while GM add 122% more motor rpm to keep the HP at 2014 levels ?
Any more rumours of the 450lb ft sport Spark ?

Hi All!

Thank you so much for all the information you brought to this thread and providing me a wealth of information on this car and other vehicle options. The toyota sounds tempting and will I plan to check that out once I get settled in Irvine but the Spark is not off the table.

Thank you all again! Hopefully in a few weeks I'll have an update on what I'm driving

Our Spark had its longest trip today, 88 miles driven with an estimated 16 miles left when we got home. A couple of small hills plus the Conejo Grade on the 101 and back. All of the charge stations at our destination were full so we did the trip without charging. So far the mileage estimator has been pretty accurate.

HarleyQuinn321 said:

Hi All!

Thank you so much for all the information you brought to this thread and providing me a wealth of information on this car and other vehicle options. The toyota sounds tempting and will I plan to check that out once I get settled in Irvine but the Spark is not off the table.

Thank you all again! Hopefully in a few weeks I'll have an update on what I'm driving

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Update:

California just added 15,000 Green HOV lane stickers to the program, so you can re-include PHEVs like the Volt, C-Max and Fusion Energis and the PiP (Ptui!) in your options.

http://insideevs.com/california-ups-hov-green-sticker-program-15000-55000-total/

One more thing for the OP to consider. With MB just announcing that the B-class ED has a 36 (total) kWh battery, giving it an 87 mile EPA range with a normal charge or 104 with a 'range' charge, you might want to add that to your possible options, along with the BMW i3/Rex. Both fall in between the Spark et al and the RAV4EV in base price at around $42k, although adding almost any options will quickly boost you up into the same $50k MSRP territory as the comes loaded RAV4.

For the B-class I'd recommend the $600 extra range option, and you'd still want L2 at both ends, although you might be able to make it with L1 at one end. For the i3, the Rex (range-extending engine) is a lot pricier ($3,850?) and you'd still need L2 at both ends, but if you want to be able to do your normal commute all electric while having zero range anxiety, the i3 w/Rex is the best option for you. The Volt would allow you to do a high percentage of your commute electric with L2 at both ends, starts about $6-7,000 cheaper, and can be used universally, i.e. as your sole car. PHEVs like the above will probably retain their resale value better than BEVs over the years as well.

Range at 65mph (100km ground speed) on dry, hard surface level road with no wind or cabin climate control with new condition battery at 70F, battery capacity is "useable" amount, not advertised amount.


Nissan
LEAF - 4 miles per kWh (250 wattHours per mile) * 21.3kWh = 85.2 miles


GM / Chevrolet
Spark EV - 5 miles per kWh (200 wattHours per mile) * 19kWh = 95miles


Mercedes
B-Class ED - 3.8 miles per kWh (263 wattHours per mile) * 33.2kWh = 126 miles


Toyota
Rav4 EV - 3.4 miles per kWh (295 wattHours per mile) * 41.8kWh = 142 miles

I too have a crazy commute. I drive 120 miles per day round trip. I charge with a level 2 charger at work overnight at home I charge with a normal household plug. I am never fully charged when I leave my house but have plenty to make it to work. if I start with a full charge from home I make it on 50% charge to work mainly downhill. Going home I usually about 75% charge. I bought my car naperville I'm now just passed 10,000 miles I have had no issues. I do have the ccs charger and have it as a backup plan if needed. Irvine is about 12 miles from my office.

agdodgerfan said:

I too have a crazy commute. I drive 120 miles per day round trip. I charge with a level 2 charger at work overnight at home I charge with a normal household plug. I am never fully charged when I leave my house but have plenty to make it to work. if I start with a full charge from home I make it on 50% charge to work mainly downhill. Going home I usually about 75% charge. I bought my car naperville I'm now just passed 10,000 miles I have had no issues. I do have the ccs charger and have it as a backup plan if needed. Irvine is about 12 miles from my office.

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My commute is 144 miles round trip. I have a level 2 evse both at home and work, but when I first got the spark I had neither. But I was able to use l2 evse's that were close by. Even in bad weather I have been able to make the 72 mile trip to and from work, although it meant driving 55 mph on the freeway, (not that I would have been driving any faster in pouring rain)and only running the heater in short bursts to prevent freezing my butt off. I think 100 miles round trip is no problem, an honestly, after a couple weeks you figure out exactly how to drive and any range anxiety goes away. I never even look at my range anymore. Having a l2 evse at or near your work would make it a no brainer, but even just a 30 amp 110 plug for the l1 that the spark comes with should be enough to give you peace of mind.

I run my ac and still have no issues. It has been hot here lately. I did have range anxiety initially but now I canhave fun driving the car testing limits and still confident I will make it where I need to go.

agdodgerfan said:

I run my ac and still have no issues. It has been hot here lately. I did have range anxiety initially but now I canhave fun driving the car testing limits and still confident I will make it where I need to go.

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Now that is the way to go about driving your EV. That is my philosophy completely.