Researching the Spark EV

SteveC5088 said:

A BMW 335 to Spark EV has to be a shock. I assume they had reasons not to buy a Volt??? The Volt would do her 30 miles a day all electric, and then they would have a car for long trips, too.

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My brother had 3000 single reasons and about another 100 reasons a month not to choose a Volt, plus the additional 1000 of state incentive reasons. They will have an inexpensive gas car with greater range and capacity to offset the Spark's limitations. They each need a car.

My sister in law is young and it just worked out that my brother had a pre-owned 335 when they got married, so her first car was the 335, if she had been like anyone else in my family her first car would have been either an unreliable old crap heap or someone's grandfather's Olds 98 and she would think the Spark was the best thing ever.

I know this may be subjective, but I find the Spark kind of fun to drive, I do not feel that way about the Volt.

If I want to go to Yosemite, my Jetta diesel wagon will make it on a single tank of diesel. I recently drove from Tahoe to LA on 2/3 of a tank.

I would seriously consider a diesel/electric hybrid, it seems to work well for trains, I wonder why no one is bringing them to market?

evcurious said:

If I want to go to Yosemite, my Jetta diesel wagon will make it on a single tank of diesel. I recently drove from Tahoe to LA on 2/3 of a tank.

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Yup. As I said, while it can be done, it's not a practical use for a limited-range BEV at the moment, especially with no en route QCs and only a 3.3 kW OBC.

evcurious said:

I would seriously consider a diesel/electric hybrid, it seems to work well for trains, I wonder why no one is bringing them to market?

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Ask and you shall receive :

Audi Readying diesel PHEV models for US and Europe

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http://www.autoblog.com/2014/07/30/audi-diesel-plug-in-hybrid-q7/

A good article to read discussing the various EVs.:
http://www.caranddriver.com/comparisons/2014-chevy-spark-ev-vs-fiat-500e-ford-focus-electric-honda-fit-ev-nissan-leaf-smart-fortwo-ed-comparison-test

I suggest you look at the crash results of ICE versions of the Spark vs. 500e. The door on the 500e came off! That was the clincher for me.

The torque steer issue is a problem. I recently changed the front tires to Yokohama Avid Ascends, as others suggested. Problem for the most part is now mitigated. I wouldn't even let my wife drive it before for safety reasons, now it's just for selfish reasons. (Although, like you, she now drives a 2010 Jetta TDi Sportwagen acquired last week.)

I find the rear seats fold flat. You have to play with the rear headrests to do so. The headrests have to be put in their lowest position to fold the seat forward and then raised so they don't contact the rear bench. I carry lots of stuff all the time and leave the right seat down as it enhances rear visibility.

I hate the traction control. It's too sensitive and cuts out power on a downhill hairpin. I haven't tried the same road since the new front tires.

The pedestrian warning should have been a button on the end of the stalk, not the pull-to-flash headlights function of every other car on the road. Dumb. I have had a couple of occasions where the P warning saved me with cars merging into me. Wouldn't have found the horn in time.

Seat heaters are not that effective compared to my 2005 or 2010 TDIs.

I think you're overthinking the charging scenario with your projected usage.

I like getting the monthly email telling me I saved 40-44 gallons a month compared to a car that gets 22mpg. My lease is $199 with $2500 down. No CCS. I would only consider a light colored car for safety and to cut down on heat gain. My wife was rear ended at night in her former Golf TDi that was Indigo Blue. I think it might not have happened if the car had been light colored. But I can't say for sure the twit that hit her wasn't texting in the first place.

Love the acceleration especially after about 15 mph. I always drive in Low. Usually with DRLs off to boost range.

I hate that if I come back to the car and make a call with my iPhone, the stereo still makes the BlueTooth link with the motor off, and I can't hear the other person until BT is turned off.

Seats are mediocre. I do lots of 20-30 minute hops so they're tolerable. Wish Chevy put in LED DRLs.

The Remote Link is too slow to sync. Don't like the fact when you turn of the DRLs, you can't control how bright the dash or media display is.

Like most cars, the A pillars are too f***ing big. I understand the need for rollover standards, but it's a real danger for pedestrians coming from the driver's left because you can't see them. And the powers that be; cops, newspapers, TV media, have done nothing to warn people of this phenomenon. Hated my father's Honda Accord for the same reason.

Hope this helps.

I spent several days driving my friend's Fiat 500e on the 60 mile round-trip that I do every day. This convinced me that an EV was a viable option for me. However, after my experience, I'm very happy that I purchased a Spark EV instead of the Fiat. One major disadvantage of the Fiat is that the B-pillar on the driver's side almost completely obscures the view over your left shoulder. Driving at night in traffic I found it to be very difficult to tell if there was someone in the lane to my left. The convex mirror in the corner of the driver's side mirror didn't really solve the problem for me either, because it's so small and curved that it's really difficult to tell how far away the vehicles you're seeing really are.

In addition, I found that the Fiat 500e is significantly less powerful than my 2015 Spark EV. My friend who owns the Fiat has driven my Spark also and he commented that he could tell that the Spark has noticeably better acceleration.

Being just under 6 feet tall I had to have the driver's seat in the Fiat moved back to the point where it was almost touching the rear seat - no room at all for someone to sit back there. In my Spark, even with the seat all the way back, there is still room for someone in the back seat. The four doors are also an obvious advantage to the Spark - it's pretty awkward getting into the back of the Fiat and even more awkward getting back out.

One surprising problem that we've had with the Fiat is difficulty getting it to charge. There seems to be some kind of software problem because there were several times where we plugged it in, went to the menu in the dash, pressed the menu button to start charging, it ignored us, we pressed it again a few times, it finally said it was charging and the orange segments on the top of the dash started blinking. However, when we went out to check it a half hour later it had stopped charging. This has led to a feeling that we need to check on the Fiat to make sure it keeps charging.

I worried a bit about the lack of a 6.6 kW charging mode in the Spark, however I've never even come close to having an issue. I typically use about 75% charge in one round trip. I plug into the charger at work and it's usually recharged by around noon, so even if I were only going to be at work a half day or I had to leave early unexpectedly, I still would not have an issue. When I plug in at home I typically charge at the slowest (110V, 8A) rate, because I seldom need to charge any faster.

As far as economics go, the Spark is obviously significantly less expensive than a 500e. The $500 credit from Bosch is also pretty cool - I just got my level 2 charger for my house this week and even after paying the sales tax, shipping, and going for the 30 A model (so my friend can charge and for future expansion) I still paid less than $200 for the unit.

As others have said, the infotainment system is significantly more advanced in the Spark than in the 500e. There's lots of little things that may bug you about the Fiat. For example, if you lock the doors with the remote, the horn will beep. This feature bugs my friend and he's tried to figure out a way to disable it, but there doesn't seem to be a way. The Spark on the other hand is chock-full of personalizable settings. I pretty much like most of the defaults, but you can easily change any of them. As far as locking via remote, the default setting is for the lights to flash, but no horn unless you push the lock button twice.

I could go on, but I think you get the idea. If you have any other questions about the 500e, let me know.

gra said:

Audi Readying diesel PHEV models for US and Europe

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http://www.autoblog.com/2014/07/30/audi-diesel-plug-in-hybrid-q7/

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Oops I forgot to say affordable

NomadMac said:

The torque steer issue is a problem. I recently changed the front tires to Yokohama Avid Ascends, as others suggested. Problem for the most part is now mitigated. I wouldn't even let my wife drive it before for safety reasons, now it's just for selfish reasons. (Although, like you, she now drives a 2010 Jetta TDi Sportwagen acquired last week.)

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Actually the Jetta is My wife's, I currently drive a 2012 WRX, but I'll be selling that. It's really a terrible car to drive in traffic, but it has zero torque steer, no acceleration issues and can hold on to the road quite well under most conditions. You need to get something in return for 16.5 MPG.



I actually got to spend some quality time in my brother's Spark today and I quite liked it. I agree the seats leave a lot to be desired. I like the low center of gravity, and the stealthy acceleration, I surprised a guy in a Porsche Cayman getting on the FWY at one of those 2 car per green lights, he would have killed me if we went past 45 I think, but 0-35 I had him, then we had to slow for traffic ahead. I like the driving in Low thing a lot. It's similar to the way my manual transmission acts.

There are claims that the Spark is faster 0-60 but the Fiat is faster 0-30 10-30 etc. they both feel about the same, If there is a difference it's 10ths of a second I think. Though I didn't get to drive the Fiat in varied driving conditions for several hours. The Fiat may handle curves a bit better, but you know, it's Italian honestly everything feels slow and sketchy compared to what I'm driving now, but one of these 2 EVs is a better choice overall for big picture family considerations at this point. My wife refuses to drive my car and we really would benefit from being able to trade off when it makes sense.

I took the car to a trailer hitch place and they think they can put a hitch on with a minimum of welding and cutting, so one of my biggest non-charging concerns is lessened. I think I'll be able to transport my mountain bike.

I have spoken with several Fiat dealers to see if I could negotiate a reasonable deal on a 500e and so far they are all thieving bastards in my opinion.

I think the BT implementation built into all cars is crap so far. I turned mine off and just use a visor speaker deal. Perhaps in 3 years there will be more electric cars on the market that will combine many of the desirable traits of the 2 cars I'm considering and also have greater range? One can hope.

I really appreciate all the info, hopefully this thread will also come in handy for anyone else coming here to research the Spark. I'm going to see if I can hammer a few dollars more out of the 2 local Chevy dealers and probably purchase a Spark before 2015 if all goes well.

Then I'll start the new year off with Craigslist offers of a principality in Franastan in trade for my WRX, "Sir, I will gladly pay more than your asking price..."

evcurious said:

I really appreciate all the info, hopefully this thread will also come in handy for anyone else coming here to research the Spark. I'm going to see if I can hammer a few dollars more out of the 2 local Chevy dealers and probably purchase a Spark before 2015 if all goes well.

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I used Cars.com and searched all over for the best deal in the color and features I wanted. (I see they vary in price from 25,577 to 29,610). I dealt with the dealer via phone and email, worked out a deal, then drove there and hauled the Spark home on a Uhaul dolly.

Tricky dealing that way though. Biggest issue was getting my wife's legal name spelled correctly. They also wanted a wire transfer to their bank the day before I picked up the car. I spent only 2 hours at the dealer's before I was driving away with Spark in tow.

NomadMac said:

The torque steer issue is a problem. I recently changed the front tires to Yokohama Avid Ascends, as others suggested. Problem for the most part is now mitigated. I wouldn't even let my wife drive it before for safety reasons, now it's just for selfish reasons. (Although, like you, she now drives a 2010 Jetta TDi Sportwagen acquired last week.)

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I got to do this myself, hate those Bridgestones which chirps at the slightest power. Did you just change the fronts? How much does the Yokohamas cost? I hope they can be found easily.

evcurious said:

gra said:

There are claims that the Spark is faster 0-60 but the Fiat is faster 0-30 10-30 etc. they both feel about the same, If there is a difference it's 10ths of a second I think.

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No, the Fiat is quicker from a dead stop. GM went too conservative, until you get rolling to above 10mph, it is slower; then power comes in a rush. That is probably why torque steer is so strong, hard to launch smoothly. I haven't tried it with traction control OFF and in the L setting. Heard that helps, but I miss the Regen coasting when in L mode. On my Spark EV, the L is very aggressive and slows down the car right away.

Still, a fun toy car to drive when I can get it away from my wife.

SteveC5088 said:

I used Cars.com and searched all over for the best deal in the color and features I wanted. (I see they vary in price from 25,577 to 29,610). I dealt with the dealer via phone and email, worked out a deal, then drove there and hauled the Spark home on a Uhaul dolly.

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I've been dealing exclusively by phone, I'm looking for a lease not purchase. I think I'm close to the very bottom, or within $5/month of the very bottom. I don't think I'd get back the investment of time, gas and uhaul rental to go further out.

PPL said:

No, the Fiat is quicker from a dead stop. GM went too conservative, until you get rolling to above 10mph, it is slower; then power comes in a rush.

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I do notice a very non-linear acceleration, sort of reminds me of a turbo car. Perhaps the Fiat is faster off the line, but I'd like to see actual numbers. The numbers I'm seeing in reviews are all over the map. 7.9 0-60 for the spark vs 9.1 for the Fiat. 7.2 for the spark 8.1 for the Fiat. It's hard to know. I'm not going to race the thing. I just dont want to be stuck driving something pokey which can't get out of it's own way, I think the Spark goes just fine for what it is.

I think I've decided the Fiat is not worth the couple of thousand dollars extra this time around.

Yokohama Avid Ascends:

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=Yokohama&tireModel=AVID+Ascend+%28H-+or+V-Speed+Rated%29&partnum=855VR5ASC&vehicleSearch=false&fromCompare1=yes

About $240 out the door at Cain's Tires in San Rafael. I went in the day before and had Cain's Tires order them. They get them overnight from the Tire Rack.
I only had the fronts done. No alignment was needed.

NomadMac said:

Yokohama Avid Ascends:

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=Yokohama&tireModel=AVID+Ascend+%28H-+or+V-Speed+Rated%29&partnum=855VR5ASC&vehicleSearch=false&fromCompare1=yes

About $240 out the door at Cain's Tires in San Rafael. I went in the day before and had Cain's Tires order them. They get them overnight from the Tire Rack.
I only had the fronts done. No alignment was needed.

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Thanks for the response. Will look into this replacement.

Just leased a 2015 at Dublin Chevrolet in the Bay Area. Spent the last six weeks dithering between an EV and an ICE and on the EV side between the Spark and the Fiat. The dithering had to stop because I was driving my Daughters 12 year old Toyota Echo. Excellent fuel economy but a little hard on the ego front. I think it must be the peeling paint.

Anyway, I figured, how could all you guys and gals be wrong. I got a decent lease deal: $800 drive off, 198 per month + 17 taxes, 26,7 price rebated to 22.5 with residual of 16.4. 12K miles, 36 mos. (close if not exact numbers)

My commute is over Vasco road from Discovery Bay to Vasco Ace Station in Livermore. That is about 22 miles each way but crosses hills which are, maybe 1000 feet at the summit. The Livermore valley is a couple hundred feet above sea level while my house is right at sea level so my commute is asymmetrical in terms of power use. Not that this matters too much, the station is well within range and what goes up must come down so half the trip burns hard and the other half burns light.

I am not a car enthusiast so can't comment on the finer points but I have to say the acceleration is ... wow. Also the thing is so quiet (compared to my current bucket of bolts) the most noise seems to be coming from wind whistling around the windows above about 50MPH.

And philosophically, this car really represents a major departure from the past. You feel kind of special driving it, like you are part of the leading edge. Although it is a tiny thing and pretty cheap to own, I'm getting a solid ego boost just being one of the early adopters of EV technology. Next up...automated cars. Now THAT is the real future.

Nice Christmas gift to yourself, Seychellois! Congratulations.

Looking at this web page: Predicting Energy Use, your car will use an additional 6 miles worth of energy to climb 1000 ft in elevation. Descending that 1000 ft will get back 4 miles. The net difference is 2 miles of range burned over what driving a flat section would take.

Now get yourself one of these magnetic stickers and enjoy the car:

http://www.cafepress.com/cp/customize/product2.aspx?number=1265252538

Hi folks,

after all the info and research, I leased a silver, 2015 Spark EV 2LT with DCFS. Having spent my first day running errands in it, I have to say I'm very pleased. Really there are no surprises so far, since I already know how slow charging will be and I've previously driven my brother's a bit. I do like the acceleration, It corners well enough to be enjoyable. I like the direct Siri access. As I expected, the few public charge stations around were either already occupied by Leafs or C-Maxs, or in the case of my local LA public library, the space was open, but the charger was some sort of magnetic inductive paddle. I think for the EV-1? Whatever it was, I don't think there are any cars on the road that use those anymore. I wonder if it's possible to get it changed?

So my 36 month long experiment has begun, thank you all for weighing in on my decision. Hopefully I'll have something interesting to contribute elsewhere on the forum in the near future.

evcurious said:

Hi folks,

but the charger was some sort of magnetic inductive paddle. I think for the EV-1? Whatever it was, I don't think there are any cars on the road that use those anymore. I wonder if it's possible to get it changed?

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There are still many RAV 4 EVs (the original one) that use the inductive paddle charger. There many also be a few Ford Ranger electrics that use them as well. Welcome to the Spark club, enjoy!

xylhim said:

There are still many RAV 4 EVs (the original one) that use the inductive paddle charger. There may also be a few Ford Ranger electrics that use them as well. Welcome to the Spark club, enjoy!

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Do you think there are even 1/10th the number of vehicles today that use the paddle vs. the J1772?

Thanks for the welcome.

evcurious said:

xylhim said:

There are still many RAV 4 EVs (the original one) that use the inductive paddle charger. There may also be a few Ford Ranger electrics that use them as well. Welcome to the Spark club, enjoy!

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Do you think there are even 1/10th the number of vehicles today that use the paddle vs. the J1772?

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Nope...

I have no idea how accurate http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_RAV4_EV is, but it led to http://www.toyota.com/concept-vehicles/rav4ev.html (snapshot at https://web.archive.org/web/20110415162023/http://www.toyota.com/concept-vehicles/rav4ev.html) that says "1,484 vehicles were sold or leased in the U.S., and more than half of those are still on the road today."

From roughly adding up http://insideevs.com/monthly-plug-in-sales-scorecard/, there are somewhere past 274K vehicles there, so if ALL the Gen 1 Rav4 EV were still running (they're not), it would be more like 0.5%.

I've seen very few of those paddle chargers (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magne_Charge) in the wild in public. One was finally removed and replaced by a J1772 station at 1 free public charging area I visit. Another was at Sunnyvale Fry's and it looks pretty broken, the last time I went.