Spark does not start this morning

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scrambler

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 14, 2017
Messages
160
OK, SO bad day for a dead car...

I start the spark this morning fully charged, but when I shift to move nothing happens.
Try to turn it off, and it keeps reinitializing and restarting. I eventually can get it to shutdown by powering off a second time
The service light soon (car with exclamation mark is on.
I also get the message service the battery charging system (may be the 12volt battery has a problem, will need to check that later)

Any suggestions, or I am going to have the car towed...

Appreciate the help

PS: Any info on how to get in and out of service mode on the Spark?
 
OK, so the 12 volt battery was discharged (explains the weird behavior). Now on to figuring out if the battery has gone bad, or if the 12 V charging system is bad (or both)

Charging the battery to see if it holds the charge and if the car starts with it charged...
 
Yes, I was about to post "check the 12V battery".

The logic in EVs for keeping the 12V "charged" doesn't seem that well implemented (in general) and can be downright crap (in 2012-13 LEAFs). I "babysat" a friend's LEAF while he & his family were out of the country (picked it up from mechanic - tires - and had it 3 weeks). I had joked to him that we should exchange cars for a few days to try them out and compare them, and he came out with "well, if you pick mine up at the mechanics next week, you can keep it while I'm away". Of course his 12V battery died while I had it - I only used it every 2 or 4 days, for short trips. I did some research and basically decided that it would be a VERY good idea to buy a *quality* "battery maintainer" - an intelligent unit that can be plugged in overnight (or for a week).

There is NO reason for a 12V battery with almost no heavy load to fail in 2, 3, or 4 years - except STUPID software in the car. And it happens far too frequently. So I bought a VERY low-current battery maintainer that I plug in 1-5 times a month to make sure my EV's 12V battery is properly kept above 80% charge, and gets a FULL saturation charge at least once a month. (I also use it on my ICE vehicles, and the neighbor's, about once every month or two. I am known as "the crazy battery guy" in my neighborhood.)

Seriously, buy a good battery maintainer ($40-$60) to avoid having to replace the 12V battery every 2-4 years ($100-$150).
 
scrambler said:
OK, so the 12 volt battery was discharged (explains the weird behavior). Now on to figuring out if the battery has gone bad, or if the 12 V charging system is bad (or both)

Charging the battery to see if it holds the charge and if the car starts with it charged...
Once you get the 12V topped up, you could do a 'Cap Check' and see how long it will power the headlights and flashers while monitoring it with a digital multimeter.
It should take a long time to gradually drop to 10V. Don't take it lower than that.

That's where the 'RC' number comes from on car batteries. It's rated in minutes at 'a steady 20 Amp load down to 10.5 V'. (I think...)

But then, if you manually turn on the headlights without powering up the car will they 'Auto-turn off' to protect the 12V battery?
Your battery should not have discharged to 'dead'. Suspicion #1. Start shopping now.

Old school lead acid batteries can go bad quickly once they throw in the towel and on these little EV S-Boxes there is no warning because we never put a load on them by cranking an engine starter.
Sometimes they just suddenly die..... They are electro-chemical devices after all. They all die eventually.
 
The battery would not charge, so it was clearly dead.

Went ahead and replaced it, car is working fine, and the error is gone.

I assume if the charging system was actually defective, the error would still be there, unless the error is purely based on the actual charge of the 12 volt battery.
 
The 12V battery is there to provide current for everything except the drive motor - windows, computer(s), display, radio, WiFi, On*Star, ...

If the 12V battery is dead, you are screwed - nothing works. You should really invest in an inexpensive (but high-quality) battery maintainer. It will do a much better job prolonging the life of your 12V battery than the S/W in the car does, and the lead-acid battery *should* last 8-10 years (easily) if properly maintained. $40-$60 for a good battery maintainer compared to $120-$250 for a new battery (today - more next year and every year after that). And you can use the maintainer on a bunch of vehicles. I haven't had a battery failure since I got my maintainer - and my 12V batteries are now 3-to-9 years old (3 cars).

Now, the stock battery in the Spark EV is AGM , which resists sulfation better at lower SoC than 'traditional' lead-acid, but a good 'full' (saturation) charge every now and then is a great thing for lead-acid life.
 
Just had the symptoms happen..... Turned it off, opened the driver door, shut the driver door, pressed the blue start button, dash read "initializing please wait to shift," regular dash came on with service light illuminated, wouldn't move in reverse out drive. Haven't had time to troubleshoot as I work second shift. I'll check the 12v battery with a multimeter and check OBD2 for codes when I get home (it's a 2015 manufactured in 11/2014).

Strange, I drove it ~20 miles this morning to run errands, then topped it off before heading to work.
 
SparkE said:
The 12V battery is there to provide current for everything except the drive motor - windows, computer(s), display, radio, WiFi, On*Star, ...

If the 12V battery is dead, you are screwed - nothing works. You should really invest in an inexpensive (but high-quality) battery maintainer. It will do a much better job prolonging the life of your 12V battery than the S/W in the car does, and the lead-acid battery *should* last 8-10 years (easily) if properly maintained. $40-$60 for a good battery maintainer compared to $120-$250 for a new battery (today - more next year and every year after that). And you can use the maintainer on a bunch of vehicles. I haven't had a battery failure since I got my maintainer - and my 12V batteries are now 3-to-9 years old (3 cars).

Now, the stock battery in the Spark EV is AGM , which resists sulfation better at lower SoC than 'traditional' lead-acid, but a good 'full' (saturation) charge every now and then is a great thing for lead-acid life.
I have now followed SparkE’s suggestion and purchased a BatteryMINDer model 2012-AGM-OBD2 battery minder to keep the 12 volt battery in top shape for my two Spark EVs. I like being able to connect to the OBD2 connector in order to charge the car. It works great. My plan is to perform an overnight maintenance charge once per month for both cars.
 
If you have a decent voltmeter, I would suggest that you put in the time to do a daily test of the 12V battery for a month or two (for each car). Yeah, it's a PITA, but that will tell you what sort of drain is occurring on the vehicles' acc battery, and how often might be a good idea to charge (once a week, twice a month, every 2 months, ...) I did it for my vehicle over the course of about 10 days (and promptly 'lost it' - meaning my wife 'cleaned' ...). Personally, I would want to see how quickly (or 'if ever') the battery got down to 12.4V. I would *like* to keep the battery at above 12.45V, but wouldn't go apesh*t over it. (12.6V is basically 'full' - it varies a bit, but after 6 hours with minimal load, it's 12.6V.)

If the battery almost immediately (a day or 3) drops to 12.4V, that's something that would indicate more frequent charging would be useful. (At even 80% SoC a flooded lead-acid will start to sulfate under minor load - slow sulfation, and reversible with a full, saturation charge - but that's why one trickle charges.) If the battery is generally (most of the month) over 12.4V, charging once a month should be fine. And "12.4V" is just my opinion. It may be a bit overkill - but then I want the battery to last 8-12 years.

Usage patterns may affect how charged the 12V battery remains. The acc battery in the Spark EV is charged from the main battery when (a) actively charging the propulsion battery (not just plugged in) and (b) when in the 'drive' setting (and there's also a check done every few days but the voltage trigger, IMO, is too low). So, if you drive the vehicle 15 miles every 3 or 4 days, the voltage of your acc battery won't be 'maintained' by the Spark as well as if you drove 50 miles a day (charged while driving, charged while re-charging). IIRC, the voltage 'when charging or driving' provided to the 12V battery is 13.4V (it might have been 13.6V). Either is fine as a 'float' or 'maintenance' charge - but it won't refill a severely depleted battery, OR even saturate charge the acc battery. If you drive enough, the acc battery will remain fairly well charged (although not saturation charged). If you drive a little, not so much.

I don't recall my 12V battery dropping below 12.4V at any time during the 10-day check (full charge, then checked every night). But we usually drove the car 20-60 miles a day, every day. The thing to remember when checking voltage of the 12V battery is that 'wakening' the car (including simply opening the driver's door, or plugging something into the OBD port) will increase the draw on the acc battery, thus lowering the voltage you are measuring. Also, having the key fob 'too close' may do the same - due to the fob 'talking' to the Spark - so we started keeping the key 50 feet away in the kitchen instead of hanging on the wall in the garage.

So, if you are going to monitor voltage of the battery , try :

1- When you get home, park and pop the hood (so that you can open it later - I don't think that opening the HOOD wakes up any computers). Then walk away from (and lock) the car.
2- Go back 30+ minutes later to measure the battery voltage, so the draw has minimized, and the battery has been 'at rest' for at least 10 minutes (if not 25, or more).

I had a super, super, slow (but really intelligent) trickle charger : 0.8A. A 'pretty much full' battery would go quickly to 'mostly charged, now topping off' (maintain at 14.4V, dropping amperage until full), and then it would take 3-6 hours before it signalled 'maintain/float' mode (battery full, maintain at 13.6V). So I'd plug in late at night and it would be fully charged in the morning.
 
12.65V and my old friend P0ac4

I had left it unplugged and fully charged. It now moves...

Will check again with dmm before next drive. Wish I had time to have checked it this afternoon....

I have convinced myself the 12v battery was somehow let to go uncharged and drain a bit. Then while I was at work, the cat decided to be nice and recharge it. Very likely NOT the case, but I've convinced myself of such, so that I can drive some what worry free.... that and I have AAA. Fingers crossed it doesn't happen again, but I have my doubts.
 
Per SparkE’s suggestion and MrDRMorgan's recommendation, I have decided to join the BatteryMINDer model 2012-AGM-OBD2 club.
 
First, I am NOT saying that there is anything wrong with the BatteryMINDer models.

Myself, I decided to go with the "CTEK US 0.8". It is "AGM safe" (doesn't go past 14.4V). It had great reviews (including several from elec engineers describing measured behavior in detail). The multiple modes were very well described. Although not "weather proof", I felt it could live under the (mostly closed) hood of a car in almost any weather just fine. AND it was idiot-proof. It has a very low "transient charge" (or is that "back charge"?) - if the power goes out, it doesn't pull from the battery. And, it's full mode behavior included a 10-day "float" charge mode, followed by a "check voltage every X minutes" coupled with a "give microbursts of amps and re-check voltage" indefinite mode after float expires. Also, I already had a 15-Amp "my battery is almost dead" smart charger, so what I wanted was a "it doesn't matter if it takes 12 hours to top off" smart, super-gentle charger that was AGM-safe. (I wouldn't want this to be my only charger, as it would takes DAYS to re-charge a mostly depleted battery.)

I don't mind lifting the hood of the car twice a month (it isn't an OBD-connector) - AND it came with the 'permanent connects' to attach to the battery so that only the 'smart, safe' cable connector needed to be touched (keeping hands fairly clean). And it was only $55 when I bought it.

I have been very happy with it (on all of my vehicles).
 
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