SparkE
Posts: 440
Joined: Tue Sep 06, 2016 1:18 am
Location: SF Bay Area (San Jose, CA)

Re: Battery Degradation vs Battery Limited Warranty

Thu Jan 07, 2021 2:27 pm

PS: you can probably find a used Bolt with less than 35k miles near Portland for around $12k-$14k or so. Even with battery degradation (which is much less than on a Spark, maybe 5-10% after 3-4 years) you will have over 200 miles (summer) and over 150 miles (winter) of range. And it should last you for over 10 years, easily. You could use the Bolt for "medium distance" travel (?up to 350 miles, one DCFC session?), the Spark for "around town" (if you are a 2-car household), and rent a gasmobile those few times you drive 500 miles or more.

If you are only going to get $3000 for the Spark, why bother to sell it? Unless you only need one car. And you should be able to get more than $3k selling to an individual.

(An aside, I am rather disappointed at the decline of the "rent a wreck" business. I used to be able to rent a 5-year-old car for $10/day. Thank goodness there are sites like turo.com now, but it is still over $20/day. I always check for specials at the rental agencies, but ...)

SparkE
Posts: 440
Joined: Tue Sep 06, 2016 1:18 am
Location: SF Bay Area (San Jose, CA)

Re: Battery Degradation vs Battery Limited Warranty

Thu Jan 07, 2021 2:28 pm

Planerench wrote:
Mon Nov 30, 2020 12:12 pm
So after chatting with GM on my phone with texts, I set up another appointment with the dealership via a local Customer Experience Representative. The same shop manager told the rep there is no "capacity test" and if there is a problem the car will throw a code. My next call will be to the State Attorney General I think. Perhaps I can get some traction there. The battery capacity pencils out to 12.5 pretty consistently.
So, what ever happened with this ? Any resolution?

zzzzzzzz
Posts: 50
Joined: Sat Apr 09, 2016 10:03 pm
Location: Portland, OR

Re: Battery Degradation vs Battery Limited Warranty

Fri Jan 08, 2021 11:26 am

Thanks SparkE. Yes, you have a lot of great advice there. I've tried to do most of things you've mentioned; asking invoice, pointing out the rebates and credits and discounts, trying to affirm the final price, but I think in the end the dealer just didn't want to sell the car badly enough. And the only reason I was pursuing on trading the car was because I did have a accident with it (thats a whole 'nother story), and rather then trying to fix it and sell it privately, I thought I would just trade it in. The damage isn't too noticeable unless you remove the front bumper.

So my appointment with the Chevrolet dealership I also decided to cancel, even though the service gal said this after I asked this:

"Just a question, would Chevrolet only service the main battery if it is actually below the 40% battery capacity limit and under the 8 year, 100k mile warranty? In other words, predicting based on the current trend going below 40% really wouldn't warrant servicing, is that correct?"

Their response: "We can perform that, the technician I was talking to regarding this mentioned it would be a prorated price. But GM would pay the majority."

Still not a warm and fuzzy, as I think someone here mentioned they don't really test capacity? I just let her know that I'll just continue to drive the car for the next year or so and if I truly do dip below 40%, then I would schedule the appointment.

SparkE
Posts: 440
Joined: Tue Sep 06, 2016 1:18 am
Location: SF Bay Area (San Jose, CA)

Re: Battery Degradation vs Battery Limited Warranty

Fri Jan 08, 2021 2:26 pm

zzzzzzzz wrote:
Fri Jan 08, 2021 11:26 am
Still not a warm and fuzzy, as I think someone here mentioned they don't really test capacity? I just let her know that I'll just continue to drive the car for the next year or so and if I truly do dip below 40%, then I would schedule the appointment.
Frankly, I would drive it until it either (1) no longer met my needs, OR (2) was obviously well below the guaranteed capacity. i.e, not 59.7% but at {say} 55%. Or both.

The longer you wait, the longer you will have a higher capacity batter y when they "fix" it. I believe that they are NOT required to give you a new battery that will go back to 18 kWh, but only have to get you above the 60% threshold. So the more cells that are low, spread out over several different groups, the higher the possibility that you may get an entire battery pack replacement (although probably still not new).

PS: There's a (3) as well : buy a used Bolt for $13k. It should have (well) over 200 miles range in the summer and over 140 in the winter. You get a 'new' 8 year, 100k mile warranty (well, probably 5 year, 50k mile at time of purchase - by the time YOU get it). You either sell the Spark, or if you are a two-car household and can get by 350 days of the year with two EVs, maybe keep the Spark. You can rent a gas car for those long vacation trips or borrow a vehicle. What I do when I 'need' a car (I have a gasmobile, so not for trips - this is "need a pickup to move something") I simply trade cars with a neighbor or friend for the day or the weekend. I leave them my car (turned quite a few people on to EVs doing this, BTW) and take their truck.

TheLondonBroiler
Posts: 283
Joined: Tue Oct 31, 2017 6:25 am

Re: Battery Degradation vs Battery Limited Warranty

Fri Jan 08, 2021 3:10 pm

SparkE wrote:
Thu Jan 07, 2021 1:52 pm
I have a long list of things I do at car dealerships to (1) not get taken,
Very solid advice.
2015 Spark EV w/ DCFC 48,XXX miles
Purchased 1/20/18 w/ 16,5XX miles
0-40k mile efficiency avg - 5.3 mi/kwh

2019 Bolt EV w/ DCFC 80,XXX miles
Purchased 3/16/19 w/ 87 miles
Lifetime efficiency avg - 4.8 mi/kwh

NORTON
Posts: 1370
Joined: Fri May 01, 2015 5:52 am
Location: KC,MO

Re: Battery Degradation vs Battery Limited Warranty

Sat Jan 09, 2021 5:29 am

TheLondonBroiler wrote:
Fri Jan 08, 2021 3:10 pm
SparkE wrote:
Thu Jan 07, 2021 1:52 pm
I have a long list of things I do at car dealerships to (1) not get taken,
Very solid advice.
I 2nd it !
'14 Spark EV 2LT w/ DCFC. 91k miles.
'17 Bolt Premier w/ It All! 59k miles.
GM needs Modern Troubleshooting tools for Modern EV's.
3 step Trouble Tree, 1st try, nope, 2nd try / cost $800. 3rd try fixed it.

LiLspark
Posts: 33
Joined: Sat Apr 06, 2019 8:12 pm

Re: Battery Degradation vs Battery Limited Warranty

Tue Mar 16, 2021 5:10 pm

just to re-cap its totally normal for 2015 with 34k miles to get 74-72 miles vs 82 in 55-60 degree weather?. I was thinking its the weather but no its consistent 74-72. I don't even know if the battery warranty still applies?. I don't think chevy was honoring 100k when I spoke to them last I believe my last window of opportunity was in April of 2020. 5 years

TheLondonBroiler
Posts: 283
Joined: Tue Oct 31, 2017 6:25 am

Re: Battery Degradation vs Battery Limited Warranty

Tue Mar 16, 2021 5:28 pm

LiLspark wrote:
Tue Mar 16, 2021 5:10 pm
just to re-cap its totally normal for 2015 with 34k miles to get 74-72 miles vs 82 in 55-60 degree weather?. I was thinking its the weather but no its consistent 74-72. I don't even know if the battery warranty still applies?. I don't think chevy was honoring 100k when I spoke to them last I believe my last window of opportunity was in April of 2020. 5 years
I generally can get anywhere between 40-100 miles in 55-60 degree weather, just depends if I'm averaging 70mph or 20mph on fairly level ground, so sure you can get 70 miles.

A manufacturer can choose not to honor their warranty and you can choose to try to use the legal system to make them fulfill their legal obligations (8 years/100,000 miles on EV componentry, 65% battery capacity for 2014 & 2015, 60% for 2016).
2015 Spark EV w/ DCFC 48,XXX miles
Purchased 1/20/18 w/ 16,5XX miles
0-40k mile efficiency avg - 5.3 mi/kwh

2019 Bolt EV w/ DCFC 80,XXX miles
Purchased 3/16/19 w/ 87 miles
Lifetime efficiency avg - 4.8 mi/kwh

LiLspark
Posts: 33
Joined: Sat Apr 06, 2019 8:12 pm

Re: Battery Degradation vs Battery Limited Warranty

Tue Mar 16, 2021 10:06 pm

TheLondonBroiler wrote:
Tue Mar 16, 2021 5:28 pm
LiLspark wrote:
Tue Mar 16, 2021 5:10 pm
just to re-cap its totally normal for 2015 with 34k miles to get 74-72 miles vs 82 in 55-60 degree weather?. I was thinking its the weather but no its consistent 74-72. I don't even know if the battery warranty still applies?. I don't think chevy was honoring 100k when I spoke to them last I believe my last window of opportunity was in April of 2020. 5 years
I generally can get anywhere between 40-100 miles in 55-60 degree weather, just depends if I'm averaging 70mph or 20mph on fairly level ground, so sure you can get 70 miles.

A manufacturer can choose not to honor their warranty and you can choose to try to use the legal system to make them fulfill their legal obligations (8 years/100,000 miles on EV componentry, 65% battery capacity for 2014 & 2015, 60% for 2016).
nice, I haven't tried the whole OBD2 torque pro on the spark to tell exactly what I'm getting but despite averaging 5 mi / KwH on bald tires I get. I don't go fast in the spark since seeing the range go down. street averages 30-50mph more or less city driving 0 freeway.

scrambler
Posts: 155
Joined: Sat Jan 14, 2017 4:11 pm

Re: Battery Degradation vs Battery Limited Warranty

Thu Apr 22, 2021 1:44 pm

So here I am getting close to the end of my Battery Warranty (July 13th) on my Spark 2014.

It is said to have a 21kWh battery, but an unknown Usable capacity value.

I started with 16.1 kWh usable at 52,000 miles in Jan 2017, and after a steady decline over the years, I am now at 12.8 kWh at 76,000 miles
• If the Nominal Usable capacity is 18.5kWh, I have lost 31%
• If the Nominal Usable capacity is 20kWh, I have lost 36%

If I don’t cross the 35% using the 18.5kWh usable assumption, I wonder if it would be worth paying for an evaluation at the dealer.

Has anyone asked their dealership too verify the usable battery capacity of their spark against the warranty threshold?
If so what did they charge for it, and what kind of reported data did they provide?


Thanks

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