faster highway commute / hot weather

[Anonymous]

I'm thinking about the Spark EV vs. a small gas-powered commuter. (Possibly a Mitsubishi Mirage or a Prius C.) However, my commute is ~50 miles round trip at 70-75mph. During the summer, there are days when it's over 80 degrees when I leave in the morning, and on those days it can be well over 100 in the afternoon. There is no charging at my office, so I need to do the round-trip on one charge.

Is the Spark up to a 70-75mph 50-mile round trip with the A/C running? Do you think it will still be able to do that same trip with 100,000 miles on it? Or am I not yet a good candidate for an EV?

 

[psykokid]

OP.. edited this thread because i obviously fail at reading comprehension sometimes. You state 50 miles round trip, but somehow in my head it was 50 mile each way.. Derp... anyhow, If you have a 50 mile round trip commute then a spark could work for you, even with ac blasting and keeping up with traffic. From what i've read you do take a hit in range when you go over 65 but i cant speak from experience as of yet..

My father in law commutes from near Pasadena to Irvine every day, about a 100 mi round trip. He got a Prius C last year and is loving it, getting mid 50's mileage wise since its winter blend fuel. It's a good little appliance.

One of my bosses at work recently sold his second generation Prius and got a Volt. His commute is about 30 miles round trip with some errand running during the day tacked onto that. He can make it to and from work on all battery. He has to travel far enough sometimes to visit his parents and take his kids wherever that a pure BEV would not work for him since its his only car.

 

[Oberon]

I'm thinking about the Spark EV vs. a small gas-powered commuter. (Possibly a Mitsubishi Mirage or a Prius C.) However, my commute is ~50 miles round trip at 70-75mph. During the summer, there are days when it's over 80 degrees when I leave in the morning, and on those days it can be well over 100 in the afternoon. There is no charging at my office, so I need to do the round-trip on one charge.

Is the Spark up to a 70-75mph 50-mile round trip with the A/C running? Do you think it will still be able to do that same trip with 100,000 miles on it? Or am I not yet a good candidate for an EV?

A 50 mile round trip seems pretty easy. I have done 81 miles round trip and there was still some reserve. This was about 65 mph and without heat or AC. I'd go for it. Worst case scenario, on the 100 degree days you have to slow down a little bit. But I don't even think it will come to that.

 

[MysteriousJ]

a 50-mile round trip should be easily achievable even with a few years of battery degradation. The only thing is that you are going to be forced to charge it every night if it's going to be a daily commuter and for that you're going to have to invest in the wiring and purchase of an L2 EVSE. For some people with shorter commutes you can get by with just using the L1 EVSE that comes with the car.


To answer your 100,000 Mile question, The spark is rated at 82-miles of range (you can reach almost 100 if you're very conservative).
For example, these guys got ~92 miles on their test drive @ 62mph. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TPsgnI4vRoQ.

Now, based on Percent capacity from other cars.
A Nissan LEAF owner who's driven it 100k miles reports that he has 78% capacity from when he purchased it
http://www.plugincars.com/100000-miles-leaf-just-beginning-evs-129112.html

It is reported that 100k miles on a Tesla roadster still preserves 85% capacity with its more advanced battery system (than the LEAF)
http://www.plugincars.com/tesla-roadster-battery-life-study-85-percent-after-100000-miles-127733.html

The spark has a battery system more advanced than the LEAFs so lets say that you have 80% capacity @ 100k miles, your max range should still be at about 65 Miles.

 

[markcmann]

I'm thinking about the Spark EV vs. a small gas-powered commuter. (Possibly a Mitsubishi Mirage or a Prius C.) However, my commute is ~50 miles round trip at 70-75mph. During the summer, there are days when it's over 80 degrees when I leave in the morning, and on those days it can be well over 100 in the afternoon. There is no charging at my office, so I need to do the round-trip on one charge.

Is the Spark up to a 70-75mph 50-mile round trip with the A/C running? Do you think it will still be able to do that same trip with 100,000 miles on it? Or am I not yet a good candidate for an EV?

My daily commute is exactly what you have described. I drive 90% on the freeway in So. Cal which I drive 70 MPH + with no problem. Also this past summer I would use the A/C round trip. Since the car is small it doesn't take much time for the cabin to cool down to the point where you can leave the AC at 68-70 degrees and the fan on level one or two and remain comfortable. I leased my Spark EV so the issue with long term battery life is a mute point for me. It seems that the heater is a much higher power hog than the A/C compressor but I would still have range remIning on the colder days.

 

[gra]

Predicting whether you can still do that commute at 100k miles is well beyond our current knowledge base, although the fact that the Spark battery pack uses LiFePO4 chemistry and a liquid-cooled TMS makes me hopeful. I'm confident you could make it fine for 3 years at least (you're doing about 12k miles/yr. on your commute) in the conditions you state, but although the Spark's battery should hold up far better than a LEAF's in such temps, without better long-term data I'd still recommend leasing at this time. There will almost certainly be something with more range at the same or lower price in three years, so why even deal with worrying about it?

You can always buy the lease out at the end if you want, and although it will cost you a bit more you don't risk getting stuck in something long-term that may not work for you and which may have higher than normal depreciation, or when there's something much better available. If you do lease, make sure you get a 15k or more miles/year lease, because your commute alone will use up 12k/yr.

 

[TonyWilliams]

I'm thinking about the Spark EV vs. a small gas-powered commuter.

It seems that the heater is a much higher power hog than the A/C compressor but I would still have range remIning on the colder days.

I wouldn't get an oil burning car for a 50 mile commute. That's exactly the "sweet spot" for most EV's in cost savings over any oil car.

Amongst the many cars available and capable of this trip, the Chevy Spark EV will certainly do it well. It has enough reserve range to get you comfortably home, and the battery chemistry (pretty much the same cells that were also put in the $109,000 Fisker Karma) and battery cooling system will minimize degradation over time.

It's not the heat that will reduce range much, either on a LEAF or a Chevy Spark EV. EV's tend to have very efficient air conditioning systems, unlike many oil cars that mechanically power the A/C system.

Cold will significantly diminish range in any EV. Thankfully, the Spark EV uses a good battery heating system. If you precondition (heat) both the cabin and the batteries via the on board timer, or the smart phone app, your range degradation in cold will be diminished. Any of the following cars can also do the job. I would not purchase any except the Tesla products, but instead lease. All are Zero Emission Vehicles (ZEV), and are or soon will be available in California:

.... Manufacturer .. Model(s)
1. Honda - Fit EV / future FCEH (hydrogen car)
2. Toyota - Rav4 EV / future FCEV
3. Chry/Fiat - Fiat 500e
4. GM - Spark EV
5. Ford - Focus EV
6. Daimler - Smart ED / B-Class ED / future FCEV
7. BMW - i3 / possible future FCEV
8. Nissan - LEAF
9. VW - eGolf
10. Hyundai - future FCEV
11. Kia - Soul EV
12. Mazda - Demio? EV

The following cars are offered to the public even though their manufacturers are not required to comply with California Air Resources Board (CARB) ZEV mandates:

13. Tesla - Model S and Model X
14. Mitsubishi - iMiev (I would wait for the new version due out in 2014 for a 50 mile commute, and even then it might be iffy)


Welcome to EV's !

 

[Sesamecrunch]

My commute is 72 miles round trip. Half city streets, half freeway. There's probably 3,000+ ft of hill climbing along the way. I average around 5 miles/kwh per trip and always have over 20% of the battery remaining when I get home. I do not use A/C though, since I live in Northern California, and just use the fan when I need cooling.

I worried a lot about this range before I bought the car. On the first day driving in with the Spark EV, I had my back up plans all figured out -where the public charge points & bus stops were along my route. Even carried a folding bike in the car in case I run out of charge. All for naught. Car came in like a champ. Now, with 4 months experience, I don't even think about it. I don't have charging at work either, but if I have to make a detour, I know where the some public chargers are. I'll hook up to them and take some phone calls or do some email while I wait.

 

[gra]

I'm thinking about the Spark EV vs. a small gas-powered commuter.

It seems that the heater is a much higher power hog than the A/C compressor but I would still have range remIning on the colder days.

I wouldn't get an oil burning car for a 50 mile commute. That's exactly the "sweet spot" for most EV's in cost savings over any oil car.

Amongst the many cars available and capable of this trip, the Chevy Spark EV will certainly do it well. It has enough reserve range to get you comfortably home, and the battery chemistry (pretty much the same cells that were also put in the $109,000 Fisker Karma) and battery cooling system will minimize degradation over time.

It's not the heat that will reduce range much, either on a LEAF or a Chevy Spark EV. EV's tend to have very efficient air conditioning systems, unlike many oil cars that mechanically power the A/C system.

Cold will significantly diminish range in any EV. Thankfully, the Spark EV uses a good battery heating system. If you precondition (heat) both the cabin and the batteries via the on board timer, or the smart phone app, your range degradation in cold will be diminished. Any of the following cars can also do the job. I would not purchase any except the Tesla products, but instead lease. All are Zero Emission Vehicles (ZEV), and are or soon will be available in California:

.... Manufacturer .. Model(s)
1. Honda - Fit EV / future FCEH (hydrogen car)
2. Toyota - Rav4 EV / future FCEV
3. Chry/Fiat - Fiat 500e
4. GM - Spark EV
5. Ford - Focus EV
6. Daimler - Smart ED / B-Class ED / future FCEV
7. BMW - i3 / possible future FCEV
8. Nissan - LEAF
9. VW - eGolf
10. Hyundai - future FCEV
11. Kia - Soul EV
12. Mazda - Demio? EV

The following cars are offered to the public even though their manufacturers are not required to comply with California Air Resources Board (CARB) ZEV mandates:

13. Tesla - Model S and Model X
14. Mitsubishi - iMiev (I would wait for the new version due out in 2014 for a 50 mile commute, and even then it might be iffy)


Welcome to EV's !

Tony, I wouldn't include the Smart ED in the list as suitable for this commute, as its relatively barn-door aerodynamics will cause the range (already tight at 68 miles EPA) to plunge at the OP's desired 70-75 mph cruise, and adding any combination of heat/defrost/dense air/hills/wind/degradation and/or reserve will make it impossible. Any car without battery warming in winter will likely fail too, so that cuts out the LEAF unless the OP never sees temps much below 50 in winter. At the moment, other than the Teslas and the RAV4, the Spark EV is the only one I'm highly confident can make this commute for 3 years, although it may be possible for others.

 

[blownb310]

You can take the Fit EV off the list too if the temp drops below 30 deg. or so.

 

[SenorChispa]

I can't speak to hot weather driving (yet), but do commute in very cold weather running heater most of the time (worse can than AC, I am told). Cold also reportedly hurts range more than heat so you'll likely fare better in hot weather.

The car's aerodynamic aren't great (body is too short) so you pay quite a price for exceeding 60 mph, but I get a reliable 60 miles of range or more in the conditions above. My commute is 30 miles round trip, roughly half city half freeway, mostly flat. I go 74 mph on the freeway, and moderate city driving. Car is still half full when I get home (unless I've also run errands).

One thing to note: Spark charging takes a looong time at 110V, so you will need a L2 220V charger to be sure car is all the way full the next morning.

 

[Time2go]

Won't be a problem at all. I've had my Spark since July 4 and I have a 48 mile round trip commute. Mostly freeway speeds at 65 to 75 miles a hour. Have free charging at work so I rarely charge at home. Using AC one way I easily got mid 80's range now that its cold I get high 70's to low 80's. So I don't think high speed affects it as much as you would think. AC is much better then the heater.

 

[supcrds]

.... Manufacturer .. Model(s)
1. Honda - Fit EV / future FCEH (hydrogen car)
2. Toyota - Rav4 EV / future FCEV
3. Chry/Fiat - Fiat 500e
4. GM - Spark EV
5. Ford - Focus EV
6. Daimler - Smart ED / B-Class ED / future FCEV
7. BMW - i3 / possible future FCEV
8. Nissan - LEAF
9. VW - eGolf
10. Hyundai - future FCEV
11. Kia - Soul EV
12. Mazda - Demio? EV

The following cars are offered to the public even though their manufacturers are not required to comply with California Air Resources Board (CARB) ZEV mandates:

13. Tesla - Model S and Model X
14. Mitsubishi - iMiev (I would wait for the new version due out in 2014 for a 50 mile commute, and even then it might be iffy)

The list gets pretty short if only include EVs that you can actually buy. Today you can go out and buy a Spark, focus, 500, and leaf. The rest are not currently on sale (about half the list) or in such short supply you can really buy one (fit, maybe even the focus I have not researched it due to the higher cost). IMiev not currenty available, low cost but not enough range. I don't know about availabilty of the rav4 but at least for me it is priced out of range for a daily comuter (I think the tesla is a given that it is not really in the running here). At least for me the spark wins on cost with the leaf and 500 close behind but then when you throw in fun to drive I am back at the spark. We have that very rare occurance when the one I want is also the smart choice. Now I just need my son to get around to driving so I "have to buy a new car" . 18 and dosnt feel like driving yet. Just don't understand kids today. Wow I am my grandfather.