Planerench
Posts: 110
Joined: Mon Oct 02, 2017 5:20 pm
Location: Idaho

Re: What is being offered at end of lease?

Tue Nov 07, 2017 3:42 am

I’m sure it has to do with crashworthiness but I frequently have issues with entering and exiting Ford designed vehicles. Pillars and rooflines just don’t flow.

flavioguy
Posts: 19
Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2016 6:54 pm
Location: Silver City, NM

Re: What is being offered at end of lease?

Tue Nov 07, 2017 6:42 am

I agree. Certainly true of their newer cars.

I bought a 2000 Ford Focus (disaster of a car) and egress, etc. was much easier.

SparkevBlogspot
Posts: 499
Joined: Mon May 25, 2015 12:19 pm

Re: What is being offered at end of lease?

Tue Nov 07, 2017 9:29 am

flavioguy wrote:I drove a Focus EV 1st, then the Leaf and then the Spark.
FFE (Ford Focus Electric) feels stronger than Leaf, because it is MUCH stronger than Leaf after about 30 MPH. Leaf takes over 7 seconds to accelerate from 30 to 60. That's about the time it takes SparkEV to reach 0 to 60.

FFE weight distribution is 40/60 (mostly in rear) in front wheel drive. Because of this, acceleration has to be lousy due to lack of traction. As such, FFE is still lot slower in acceleration than SparkEV even if they could pack more powerful motor in it (which they didn't).

SparkEV weight distribution is roughly 50/50. Because of that, it has more traction than FFE. It can also handle a lot better, though Chevy didn't put focus into that area. There is a thread in this forum discussing someone modifying SparkEV to compete in SCCA races. You wouldn't do that with FFE.

What FFE and Leaf offer that's better than SparkEV is room and seating for five. There are very few cars that have less room than SparkEV and seating only four. But if the room isn't an issue, SparkEV is better than any other EV in its price range, even better than Tesla when you consider the price. There's simply no other EV available now that's more efficient and charges quicker (via DCFC) than SparkEV, not even Teslas.

As a side note, it seems no EV will charge as quick via DCFC as SparkEV for the foreseeable future. Tesla is about 1/2 the rate of SparkEV, Bolt is about 1/3 to 1/4. For bragging rights in charging speed to shut people up about "slow charging EV", there's no better argument than SparkEV.

MrDRMorgan
Posts: 1138
Joined: Wed Oct 30, 2013 7:27 am
Location: Manteca in Central California

Re: What is being offered at end of lease?

Tue Nov 07, 2017 12:30 pm

SparkevBlogspot wrote:[quote="flavioguyAs a side note, it seems no EV will charge as quick via DCFC as SparkEV for the foreseeable future. Tesla is about 1/2 the rate of SparkEV, Bolt is about 1/3 to 1/4. For bragging rights in charging speed to shut people up about "slow charging EV", there's no better argument than SparkEV.
HOW TRUE! I often charge 35% to 95% in 15 minutes and then I am on my way. The Spark EVs - 2014, 2015 and 2016 - are great EVs! Too bad GM did not keep making them.

SparkE
Posts: 397
Joined: Tue Sep 06, 2016 1:18 am
Location: SF Bay Area (San Jose, CA)

Re: What is being offered at end of lease?

Tue Nov 07, 2017 3:11 pm

MrDRMorgan wrote:
SparkevBlogspot wrote:[quote="flavioguyAs a side note, it seems no EV will charge as quick via DCFC as SparkEV for the foreseeable future. Tesla is about 1/2 the rate of SparkEV, Bolt is about 1/3 to 1/4. For bragging rights in charging speed to shut people up about "slow charging EV", there's no better argument than SparkEV.
HOW TRUE! I often charge 35% to 95% in 15 minutes and then I am on my way. The Spark EVs - 2014, 2015 and 2016 - are great EVs! Too bad GM did not keep making them.
Um, no. Tesla model S has a charge rate up to 120 kW. If you all are saying the PERCENTAGE of full charge goes up faster when comparing a 80-mile-range vehicle to one that can drive 270 miles, well ... shame on you.

And I am not a Tesla fan-boy. I own a Spark EV. A Tesla will charge 2.5 times more rapidly than a Spark (when its battery is near empty). Let's not make stuff up, folks.

MrDRMorgan
Posts: 1138
Joined: Wed Oct 30, 2013 7:27 am
Location: Manteca in Central California

Re: What is being offered at end of lease?

Tue Nov 07, 2017 4:27 pm

SparkE wrote:
MrDRMorgan wrote:
SparkevBlogspot wrote:[quote="flavioguyAs a side note, it seems no EV will charge as quick via DCFC as SparkEV for the foreseeable future. Tesla is about 1/2 the rate of SparkEV, Bolt is about 1/3 to 1/4. For bragging rights in charging speed to shut people up about "slow charging EV", there's no better argument than SparkEV.
HOW TRUE! I often charge 35% to 95% in 15 minutes and then I am on my way. The Spark EVs - 2014, 2015 and 2016 - are great EVs! Too bad GM did not keep making them.
Um, no. Tesla model S has a charge rate up to 120 kW. If you all are saying the PERCENTAGE of full charge goes up faster when comparing a 80-mile-range vehicle to one that can drive 270 miles, well ... shame on you.

And I am not a Tesla fan-boy. I own a Spark EV. A Tesla will charge 2.5 times more rapidly than a Spark (when its battery is near empty). Let's not make stuff up, folks.
No shot at Tesla intended as I do not know anything about Tesla vehicles. My only point was to show that a Spark EV can charge quickly - faster than a Leaf.

SparkevBlogspot
Posts: 499
Joined: Mon May 25, 2015 12:19 pm

Re: What is being offered at end of lease?

Wed Nov 08, 2017 5:10 am

SparkE wrote:Um, no. Tesla model S has a charge rate up to 120 kW. ... Tesla will charge 2.5 times more rapidly than a Spark (when its battery is near empty). Let's not make stuff up, folks.
You're confusing battery capacity and power for "quick" (time). Charging and discharging are rated in C rate, which is power divided by capacity. In that, SparkEV is 2.6 charging while the best Tesla can muster to 20% is 1.7.

But Tesla tapers power even at 20%. No one charges to 20% at DCFC. Everyone charges far more, typically over 80%. Average to 80% for Tesla is far less, close to 70 kW. Then the best Tesla can muster is under 1C. For time spent (how quick the car charged), SparkEV is quicker than any Tesla.

No, this is not making stuff up. Applying the real world definition of "quick" (aka, time) to charge the car. There is no car in history nor foreseeable future that will be as quick as SparkEV.

Think of it this way; if Tesla has several SparkEV batteries instead of Tesla batteries, it would be capable of 120 kW (instead of 70 kW) all the way to 80% even with only 45 kWh. As of now, even their 100 kWh model cannot manage that.

SparkE
Posts: 397
Joined: Tue Sep 06, 2016 1:18 am
Location: SF Bay Area (San Jose, CA)

Re: What is being offered at end of lease?

Sat Nov 11, 2017 5:58 pm

SparkevBlogspot wrote:
SparkE wrote:Um, no. Tesla model S has a charge rate up to 120 kW. ... Tesla will charge 2.5 times more rapidly than a Spark (when its battery is near empty). Let's not make stuff up, folks.
You're confusing battery capacity and power for "quick" (time). Charging and discharging are rated in C rate, which is power divided by capacity. In that, SparkEV is 2.6 charging while the best Tesla can muster to 20% is 1.7.

But Tesla tapers power even at 20%. No one charges to 20% at DCFC. Everyone charges far more, typically over 80%. Average to 80% for Tesla is far less, close to 70 kW. Then the best Tesla can muster is under 1C. For time spent (how quick the car charged), SparkEV is quicker than any Tesla.

No, this is not making stuff up. Applying the real world definition of "quick" (aka, time) to charge the car. There is no car in history nor foreseeable future that will be as quick as SparkEV.

Think of it this way; if Tesla has several SparkEV batteries instead of Tesla batteries, it would be capable of 120 kW (instead of 70 kW) all the way to 80% even with only 45 kWh. As of now, even their 100 kWh model cannot manage that.
No, again you are pretending that the total capacity of the battery is important ( "C" rate), and not the RATE OF CHARGE. A Tesla models S "75" at 10% capacity will charge at around 120 kW rate, adding "about" 100 miles of highway range in 15 minutes. A Spark EV (which I own) will charge at a *max* of 46 kW (the max I have measured over the last 18 months) - adding about 60 miles of highway range in 15 minutes ( the Spark is much more energy efficient). So unless your measure is "% of total capacity" instead of "miles of range added" or "rate at which electricity enters into the battery" (which would be an insane measure) - no, the Spark (which I *love*, but am not delusional about) does NOT charge "more quickly" than a Tesla model S.

SparkevBlogspot
Posts: 499
Joined: Mon May 25, 2015 12:19 pm

Re: What is being offered at end of lease?

Sun Nov 12, 2017 7:48 am

SparkE wrote:No, again you are pretending that the total capacity of the battery is important ( "C" rate)
Regardless of what YOU think is important, the industry and science consider C rate over anything else when it comes to charging and discharging rate. You can pretend other stuff's important, but the fact remains that C rate should be considered when discussing charging and discharging. In that, SparkEV is quicker than anything else in the world, and will remain so for the foreseeable future.

Talking about 10% at 120 kW (1.6 C rate) is meaningless. How many Tesla drivers charge from empty to 10% and leave on a regular basis? Hell, if you consider that, I can charge SparkEV with 2,000,000 kW of power to 0.0000000001% using static discharge. This is why time spent at the charger is relevant; very few Tesla spends 15 minutes at the charger while my average over hundreds of DCFC is 15 minutes. The reason for shorter time spent (aka, quick) is due to high C rate.

DCFC showed 398V at 122A, which is 48.6 kW (2.6C) at 80% (not 10%). If you're only seeing 46 kW, you must be using DCFC not capable of delivering peak capability of SparkEV. But even so, 46kW is 2.5C (or 2.2C for 2014), far quicker than any EV, including all Tesla.

CSW
Posts: 195
Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2015 8:37 am
Location: Sacramento,CA

Re: What is being offered at end of lease?

Sun Nov 12, 2017 10:22 am

This is getting weird, Tesla chargers faster than anything. Period. Just because the Spark is filling up a cup and Tesla is fillin up a gallon makes zero diff on charging speed. .... and way off topic into the weeds.

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