NORTON
Posts: 1338
Joined: Fri May 01, 2015 5:52 am
Location: KC,MO

Re: Unconventional Potential Owner

Sat Jan 20, 2018 6:11 am

mRahmani wrote:Oh there's plenty of nickel and dime stuff I left out.... But taking the oil change as an example, ... Over the projected 5 year period, that still only bumps the difference up $750.
Yeah, but your time...... How many hours of your time is spent, start to finish, door to door, on that nasty "Oil Change" process.
Air filters, brake pads that actually wear and get used up, etc....

I love the example above:
"In my 3 in a half years and 42,000 miles of owning my Spark EV, I've opened my hood 3 times to refill my windshield washer fluid and bought 2 new tires for the front."

I'm going start saying that !! :P
Only I have opened the hood more often, just to gaze and top up the washer fluid needlessly.
Used '14 2LT w/ DCFC. +85k miles.
Mostly free charging! Only one LONG visit to the shop....
GM needs Modern Troubleshooting tools for Modern EV's.
3 step Trouble Tree, 1st try car died again, 2nd try / cost $800. 3rd try fixed the problem.

mRahmani
Posts: 10
Joined: Wed Oct 25, 2017 6:32 am
Location: Detroit, MI

Re: Unconventional Potential Owner

Sat Jan 20, 2018 6:23 am

I'm not trying to convince anybody here that the Spark isn't a worthwhile car! I think it's pretty great, or I wouldn' t be here learning about it. It's just a little outside the realm of where I can justify it at the moment, and I thought it might be interesting to document why.

Maintenance items are a big hassle to most people, but they're not really negatives for me. I swap brake pads several times a year for track duty, so that's kind of irrelevant to me. Same goes for oil changes. I have a heated garage and access to a lift, my last oil change took about 15 minutes while chatting with friends.

I freely admit that my situation is different from most people's - all of the notes about these maintenance items would normally be totally valid, and should be taken into account.

Chris101
Posts: 117
Joined: Thu Jan 18, 2018 11:37 am

Re: Unconventional Potential Owner

Sat Jan 20, 2018 7:53 am

^ and when we purchased our Spark EV, we talked about how after 5 years ownership, even if the resale value is $1000 at that point (unlikely but for sake of of this conversation), we still wouldnt' be at the loss we were at on our ICE car we sold after 5.5 years of ownership (a 2012 Jetta GLI that cost us $25k to buy, we sold for $12k)... and considering we only paid $8550 for this spark EV, it's impossible to have as much of a resale loss or depreciation as we did on our former VW.


EDIT: We also have 2 race cars that we track between March and October. Our view was we wanted 1 less car to have to worry about maintenance. Obviously the Spark EV is not a track car and never will be. Our former Jetta GLI never saw the track either.

MrDRMorgan
Posts: 1146
Joined: Wed Oct 30, 2013 7:27 am
Location: Manteca in Central California

Re: Unconventional Potential Owner

Sat Jan 20, 2018 9:06 am

NORTON wrote:
mRahmani wrote:Oh there's plenty of nickel and dime stuff I left out.... But taking the oil change as an example, ... Over the projected 5 year period, that still only bumps the difference up $750.
Yeah, but your time...... How many hours of your time is spent, start to finish, door to door, on that nasty "Oil Change" process.
Air filters, brake pads that actually wear and get used up, etc....

I love the example above:
"In my 3 in a half years and 42,000 miles of owning my Spark EV, I've opened my hood 3 times to refill my windshield washer fluid and bought 2 new tires for the front."

I'm going start saying that !! :P
Only I have opened the hood more often, just to gaze and top up the washer fluid needlessly.
You mean there is actually something under the hood? Now, I will have to go and have a look! :lol:

NORTON
Posts: 1338
Joined: Fri May 01, 2015 5:52 am
Location: KC,MO

Re: Unconventional Potential Owner

Sun Jan 21, 2018 6:59 am

mRahmani wrote:.... so that's kind of irrelevant to me. Same goes for oil changes. I have a heated garage and access to a lift, my last oil change took about 15 minutes while chatting with friends.

I freely admit that my situation is different from most people's .....
Yes, doing the nasty deed took 'about 15 minutes'. :roll:
But does that count opening doors, driving up onto the lift, putting on the nitrile gloves (unless your a tough-guy-manly-man), buying the gloves and the filter and the oil at the auto parts store, the drive to and from the store,
AND last, but not least,,, Properly disposing of the old oil and chit canning the oil filter and all the bottles.

15 minutes might be a stretch, but I do understand not hating the whole process.
I used to be there with you. In fact I still do it for my kids and GF. But I hate it now. :x Especially when that black stuff gets past the gloves. :oops: I have better things to do with my time. :P

You will really like living in the FUTURE, where you don't have to look under the hood.
And you don't even have to check tire pressure ! It has the high end GM TPMS, not just an old school warning light.

In fact,, is there a 'Low Washer Fluid' warning in this little S-box? I may go for a record of not opening the hood!
Used '14 2LT w/ DCFC. +85k miles.
Mostly free charging! Only one LONG visit to the shop....
GM needs Modern Troubleshooting tools for Modern EV's.
3 step Trouble Tree, 1st try car died again, 2nd try / cost $800. 3rd try fixed the problem.

fox
Posts: 38
Joined: Tue Feb 28, 2017 1:16 pm

Re: Unconventional Potential Owner

Tue Jan 23, 2018 7:40 pm

You guys open the hood... WTF. I just let my wife commute in this thing(since I'm a car dealer and drive dealer cars) every day and only look at it when she tells me to wash it, NOTHING else, don't really use the washer fluid in Florida.

mRahmani
Posts: 10
Joined: Wed Oct 25, 2017 6:32 am
Location: Detroit, MI

Re: Unconventional Potential Owner

Thu Jan 25, 2018 10:39 am

This seems like a silly hill to die on, but come on, oil changes aren't that bad.

No, I've never bothered with nitrile gloves, though I do have a half dozen pairs of Mechanix ones and several rolls of shop towels lying around the garage.

My oil pan holds 5 gallons, so I only deal with it every 3-4 oil changes.

Amazon lets me reorder my filter in the space of 60 seconds while I'm sitting on the pot. :lol:

I don't make separate trips to buy oil, I just stock up on Mobil 1 whenever Costco is running a sale. Typically have 6-12 quarts lying around at any given time.

NORTON
Posts: 1338
Joined: Fri May 01, 2015 5:52 am
Location: KC,MO

Re: Unconventional Potential Owner

Fri Jan 26, 2018 4:18 am

mRahmani wrote:.., but come on, oil changes aren't that bad....
True, especially when you are tooled up and streamlined!
But imagine a future without that dirty chore! That's where I'm coming from.

Only that's not true for me. :roll:
I'm looking forward to doing the drive unit fluid change at 50-60k miles instead of the scheduled 97.5k.
I'll be using the GM recommended ATF and I will spend another ~$20 for an oil analysis. I'll post the results here.

Side Note: Gen3 Prius does not have a recommended transaxle oil change schedule. Nada, Lifetime fluid... :?:
I changed it on a used one that I bought with 114k miles.
The oil analysis results were horrible. I started what became a big thread at that forum.
Used '14 2LT w/ DCFC. +85k miles.
Mostly free charging! Only one LONG visit to the shop....
GM needs Modern Troubleshooting tools for Modern EV's.
3 step Trouble Tree, 1st try car died again, 2nd try / cost $800. 3rd try fixed the problem.

Chris101
Posts: 117
Joined: Thu Jan 18, 2018 11:37 am

Re: Unconventional Potential Owner

Fri Jan 26, 2018 2:13 pm

Its not JUST the oil changes keep in mind.

Within the last 2 months alone, my husband had to do the following on my friends ICE car to help her out (she's not yet convinced to go electric and is car shopping now):

- replace rusted out exhaust
- replace front brake pads and rotors (no regen so yes I consider this an ICE thing)
- replace 02 sensor
- replace starter
- replace alternator and battery
- replace faulty injector and fuel filter
- replace automatic transmission fluid and transmission filter


^ with the exception of the 12volt battery, none of those things are ever even on the radar for an EV.

EDIT: Now we told her she also has some seepage and will soon need to replace the VC gasket and her power steering pump has started leaking too. Her front main seal and oil pan started leaking AND her distributor started leaking oil as well. Rather than address all the 'should really fix this soon', she decided to just shop for another car instead and said, 'its time, I've had this car 3.5 years now already'

Granted many newer cars now have electric steering control without a steering pump, oil seals and leaks are still a real thing as ICE cars age and mileage goes up even if you do all the required preventative maintenance along the way, its just part of life. Plus since we live in the mighty rust belt, rusty exhaust is just a fact of life that's one less thing to ever have to worry about on an EV.
mRahmani wrote:This seems like a silly hill to die on, but come on, oil changes aren't that bad.

No, I've never bothered with nitrile gloves, though I do have a half dozen pairs of Mechanix ones and several rolls of shop towels lying around the garage.

My oil pan holds 5 gallons, so I only deal with it every 3-4 oil changes.

Amazon lets me reorder my filter in the space of 60 seconds while I'm sitting on the pot. :lol:

I don't make separate trips to buy oil, I just stock up on Mobil 1 whenever Costco is running a sale. Typically have 6-12 quarts lying around at any given time.

NORTON
Posts: 1338
Joined: Fri May 01, 2015 5:52 am
Location: KC,MO

Re: Unconventional Potential Owner

Fri Jan 26, 2018 6:57 pm

Chris101 wrote:Its not JUST the oil changes keep in mind.

Within the last 2 months alone, my husband had to do the following on my friends ICE car to help her out (she's not yet convinced to go electric and is car shopping now):

- replace rusted out exhaust
- replace front brake pads and rotors (no regen so yes I consider this an ICE thing)
- replace 02 sensor
- replace starter
- replace alternator and battery
- replace faulty injector and fuel filter
- replace automatic transmission fluid and transmission filter
GOOD TIMES !!!!

I remember them fondly.. :oops:

Cors,,, we have bills to pay,,, eventually.... (battery degradation) ...only time will tell....

In the mean time,,, drive on,,,, Silently !!!
Used '14 2LT w/ DCFC. +85k miles.
Mostly free charging! Only one LONG visit to the shop....
GM needs Modern Troubleshooting tools for Modern EV's.
3 step Trouble Tree, 1st try car died again, 2nd try / cost $800. 3rd try fixed the problem.

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