MBPdx
Posts: 6
Joined: Fri Dec 30, 2016 10:10 am
Location: Portland, OR

Re: Is anyone else experiencing brake issues [failure]?

Wed Mar 07, 2018 9:47 am

Ok, this is me - viewtopic.php?t=4738

First, I watched this thread with horror last year when a lot of folks on here jumped on Jillianne for not having an adequate explanation for them the failure and that the video from South Korea wasn't valid because it was an ICE car. That kinda bummed me out that some of you would invalidate her experience like that.

So I had the same issue, linked above. What the dealer told me was that the master cylinder pressure switch had ruptured AND the brake master cylinder had failed. They replaced both and said they pressure tested them. So this failure could certainly happen in an ICE car without regen braking.

I embarked on a long research process of searching the NHTSA's database for reports of brake failure for the Spark EV and other EV and ICE GM cars that share the same brake system. I found plenty of them. I also tried looking through the Fatality Reporting System, and while there were fatalities, quite often in the absence of a survivor it appears like it's hard to say more than "the car went off the road and hit a tree and everyone died."

I was unsuccessful getting either the dealer, Wentworth Chevy, or the GM executive team to take any responsibility or buy back the car. They all said "we don't buy back cars, but hey if you want a NEW Chevy we'd be happy to buy your Spark back and lease you a new one!" The dealer also refused to provide any of the paperwork about the half-a-dozen times I brought my car in for the parking brake locking up one of the rear wheels and causing the wheel to get red hot and the car to vibrate heavily.

So I just waited out the last 6 months of my lease and returned the POS.

So my advice is to e-mail all of the executives at GM directly and someone from their team will get back to you. Good luck.

CCIE
Posts: 174
Joined: Tue Nov 22, 2016 8:47 am
Location: CT

Re: Is anyone else experiencing brake issues [failure]?

Wed Mar 07, 2018 1:38 pm

I remember this thread. It smelled like BS then, and still does.

To recap, the OP claimed she had two Spark EVs that both exhibited the same brake issues. The odds of that are insanely long, unless the OP was installing something in both cars that was causing CAN bus interference. She wouldn’t admit to that, but it’s the only realistic explanation.

This latest claim is more believable. Parts do break on all cars. Though, I’d be surprised if the master cylinder actually failed in a way to compromised both hydraulic brake channels. So, likely the front or rear brakes were still functional.

Understandable that GM would not buyback the car since they were able to fix it by changing the master cylinder.
2018 Tesla M3 LR RWD
2015 Spark EV 2LT with DCFC (traded-in 8/2018)
2012 Volt

twinsemi
Posts: 8
Joined: Sat Aug 22, 2015 4:54 pm

Re: Is anyone else experiencing brake issues [failure]?

Wed Mar 07, 2018 7:24 pm

To CCIE,
This is certainly not a hydraulic failure that I have been seeing here. This is very likely some combination of electrical and software issue. The brakes are fine. The computer in the module (or one that controls the module like in TRON) has decided that the system controlling the brake power assist will shut down because it has determined through it own masterful decision making powers that the stability control is compromised and the driver must be made aware that dealer service is required immediately. Reset (power cycled) the system and it works fine.

CCIE
Posts: 174
Joined: Tue Nov 22, 2016 8:47 am
Location: CT

Re: Is anyone else experiencing brake issues [failure]?

Thu Mar 08, 2018 7:33 am

twinsemi wrote:To CCIE,
This is certainly not a hydraulic failure that I have been seeing here. This is very likely some combination of electrical and software issue. The brakes are fine. The computer in the module (or one that controls the module like in TRON) has decided that the system controlling the brake power assist will shut down because it has determined through it own masterful decision making powers that the stability control is compromised and the driver must be made aware that dealer service is required immediately. Reset (power cycled) the system and it works fine.

You have a car with collision history and say you have a 12V->5V USB adapter plugged in. I wouldn't be at all surprised if that adapter is causing electrical interference, so I'd start by removing it. If the issue recurs, then you likely have a sporadic computer or wiring issue as a result of the collision. You're at the mercy of the dealer to figure it out.

We all have roughly the same firmware installed, and 99.9% of us have no braking issue, so it's unlikely that it's a software issue.

My main point in all of my posts in this thread is that a complete failure of the hydraulic braking system in any modern cars is unheard of and almost impossible. So, while the brakes may have been harder to use, no one posting here actually lost their brakes.
2018 Tesla M3 LR RWD
2015 Spark EV 2LT with DCFC (traded-in 8/2018)
2012 Volt

IllinoisSpark15
Posts: 26
Joined: Thu Sep 17, 2015 3:05 pm

Re: Is anyone else experiencing brake issues [failure]?

Fri Mar 09, 2018 7:07 pm

Count me as one of the unlucky ones. My Spark EV '14 is at the dealership being diagnosed for this issue. Exactly as emailj described. Service stabilitrac comes on the diagnostics screen below the speedometer. Then the abs goes out (dash light illuminates), then the red brake dash light becomes lit. This happened when I was on the tollway, driving about 60mph, in D. I do not drive in L. After a few minutes of driving like this, the brake pedal felt soft when depressed, and then all power braking was gone and I had to press the pedal extremely hard to action any braking at all. I took a picture once I reached the dealership.

Also, the reports from other affected owners about turning off the car, then back on, actually does reset whatever issue this is. But after a couple of additional miles of driving, the issue reoccurs. This is very dangerous. I'll post what my dealership says when I hear more. I just brought it in today right before closing, so it may be next week before I hear something.

I don't know how to add the picture inline, so I'll provide a link.

Picture
https://photos.app.goo.gl/31PPKdAUaukQ5mi03
Last edited by IllinoisSpark15 on Sat Mar 10, 2018 7:08 am, edited 1 time in total.

Chris101
Posts: 100
Joined: Thu Jan 18, 2018 11:37 am

Re: Is anyone else experiencing brake issues [failure]?

Fri Mar 09, 2018 7:31 pm

^ wow! Thank you for sharing.


This is clearly beyond an isolated incident or 2!


What the heck is going on here? This is not good :(

NORTON
Posts: 1230
Joined: Fri May 01, 2015 5:52 am
Location: KC,MO

Re: Is anyone else experiencing brake issues [failure]?

Sat Mar 10, 2018 6:20 am

IllinoisSpark15 wrote:.... and then all power braking was gone and I had to press the pedal extremely hard to action any braking at all. ...
... I'll post what my dealership says when I hear more. ....
Thanks for following up on this dangerous situation.

I always assumed the basic mechanical/hydraulic brakes were there when all the power systems fail. On every car.
It's a federal requirement. I don't think any manufacturer has true 'Brake by Wire'.

What may not be clear to the Federalies is: What is "Extremely Hard" brake pedal pressure. Is there a spec for how much a person has to press when SHTF?

Can this be tested by a long press of the Blue Power Button while driving? A total power down while in motion?
I believe there is a hydraulic accumulator in the system that may provide power brakes for a few applications.
Don't try this at home. Leave this testing to professional fools....

Also,,, Is a gasser Spark any different? Lots of gassers no longer use that big ol' vacuum brake booster....
Used '14 2LT w/ DCFC. +71 K miles.
Mostly free charging! Only one LONG visit to the shop....
GM needs Modern Troubleshooting tools for Modern EV's.
3 step Trouble Tree, 2nd guess not covered by warranty and cost $800. 3rd guess fixed the problem.

IllinoisSpark15
Posts: 26
Joined: Thu Sep 17, 2015 3:05 pm

Re: Is anyone else experiencing brake issues [failure]?

Sat Mar 10, 2018 7:12 am

Those are very good questions, Norton. I'm honestly not qualified to answer them. But, I will share any information gleaned from this incident that the dealership tells me.

IllinoisSpark15
Posts: 26
Joined: Thu Sep 17, 2015 3:05 pm

Re: Is anyone else experiencing brake issues [failure]?

Tue Mar 13, 2018 5:48 am

Update:
Two components have failed and need to be replaced that affected the braking system.

Parts and numbers:
Brake Pressure Modulator Valve #23283683
Electronic Brake Control Module #23154359

They are very costly, just these two parts cost~$1700.
$2600 w/labor. Ouch!

They also confirmed that there have been other Spark repairs for this issue. They didn't give me a number of how many, but said it was listed in the troubleshooting guide they utilize when diagnosing vehicle issues.

Additionally, the parts are not considered part of the electrical system components nor the power train. As such, it is not covered under those warranties. The vehicle's 3 year bumper-to-bumper warranty ended mid-2017. So I'm stuck with the bill. :cry:

I hope this information helps clarify some of the particulars for this issue.

MrDRMorgan
Posts: 977
Joined: Wed Oct 30, 2013 7:27 am
Location: Manteca, California

Re: Is anyone else experiencing brake issues [failure]?

Tue Mar 13, 2018 7:16 am

IllinoisSpark15 wrote:Update:
Two components have failed and need to be replaced that affected the braking system.

Parts and numbers:
Brake Pressure Modulator Valve #23283683
Electronic Brake Control Module #23154359

They are very costly, just these two parts cost~$1700.
$2600 w/labor. Ouch!

They also confirmed that there have been other Spark repairs for this issue. They didn't give me a number of how many, but said it was listed in the troubleshooting guide they utilize when diagnosing vehicle issues.

Additionally, the parts are not considered part of the electrical system components nor the power train. As such, it is not covered under those warranties. The vehicle's 3 year bumper-to-bumper warranty ended mid-2017. So I'm stuck with the bill. :cry:

I hope this information helps clarify some of the particulars for this issue.
Thank you very much for posting this information and the photo of your dash screen when the problem occurred. I will show this to my wife so she is aware too.

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