BEEMAN
Posts: 16
Joined: Mon Mar 06, 2017 6:43 am
Location: Oklahoma City, OK

Re: What to watch for when buying used?

Mon Apr 03, 2017 1:26 pm

SparkevBlogspot wrote:Part of what BEEMAN wrote is only true for 2014 if there are no other options (ie, no more A123 packs, new of used available). I suspect they will replace the pack with something that has at least the warranty capacity (ie, 65% or more). That doesn't have to be new pack, though I don't think Chevy is stocking up on used 2014 packs.

But if there's no more A123, new or used, and they must replace with LG pack like in 2015+, they may have to modify the gearing. That may be due to different power drawn from the battery at different speeds. Either that, or they may simply "detune" the motor controller, thus making the 2014 with tall gear with lower peak torque. Acceleration will suffer.

If Chevy hates you, and they manage to find used A123 with more than 65%, acceleration will still suffer since older batteries have higher internal resistance than new ones. How much it suffers, of course, depends on that particular battery's level of degradation.
I happen to know for a fact that there are no more A123 packs. I also happen to know that GM does not reman Spark packs. Right now the only pack in production is the 23270164 which is the pack from the 2016 Chevrolet Spark EV. If your battery fails you will get a BRAND NEW 2016 Pack.
2014 Nissan Leaf SL
Leased from 2014-2017

2015 Spark EV
Black Granite, 2LT, DCFC
Purchased Jan 2017

SparkevBlogspot
Posts: 499
Joined: Mon May 25, 2015 12:19 pm

Re: What to watch for when buying used?

Mon Apr 03, 2017 2:47 pm

Even if they replace 2014 with LG pack, I doubt they'll change the gearing. That is significant work. More likely, they'll reprogram the ECU so that peak torque (current) is less like with 2015+. Acceleration will be slower to about 35 MPH but quicker beyond that, so it could make for some interesting driving dynamics.

evboy
Posts: 196
Joined: Mon Jan 12, 2015 2:05 am

Re: What to watch for when buying used?

Mon Apr 03, 2017 9:16 pm

the law says they have to provide parts for 10 years. that means even if they dont degrade enough for free replacement, someone could still decide to buy a new pack anyway, so they will have to provide something. also, they cant have a123 packs because they would lose capacity sitting around until 2024 waiting to be bought. isnt that correct. they would have had to store those in 2014 since a123 went bankrupt.

evboy
Posts: 196
Joined: Mon Jan 12, 2015 2:05 am

Re: What to watch for when buying used?

Mon Apr 03, 2017 9:22 pm

BEEMAN wrote:
SparkevBlogspot wrote:Part of what BEEMAN wrote is only true for 2014 if there are no other options (ie, no more A123 packs, new of used available). I suspect they will replace the pack with something that has at least the warranty capacity (ie, 65% or more). That doesn't have to be new pack, though I don't think Chevy is stocking up on used 2014 packs.

But if there's no more A123, new or used, and they must replace with LG pack like in 2015+, they may have to modify the gearing. That may be due to different power drawn from the battery at different speeds. Either that, or they may simply "detune" the motor controller, thus making the 2014 with tall gear with lower peak torque. Acceleration will suffer.

If Chevy hates you, and they manage to find used A123 with more than 65%, acceleration will still suffer since older batteries have higher internal resistance than new ones. How much it suffers, of course, depends on that particular battery's level of degradation.
I happen to know for a fact that there are no more A123 packs. I also happen to know that GM does not reman Spark packs. Right now the only pack in production is the 23270164 which is the pack from the 2016 Chevrolet Spark EV. If your battery fails you will get a BRAND NEW 2016 Pack.
Beeman, can you tell us how u know for a fact they only have 2016 batteries. also, why would they have to change gearing. just put in the new batteries. why does it matter. lithium is lithium??

BEEMAN
Posts: 16
Joined: Mon Mar 06, 2017 6:43 am
Location: Oklahoma City, OK

Re: What to watch for when buying used?

Tue Apr 04, 2017 6:43 am

evboy wrote:
BEEMAN wrote:
SparkevBlogspot wrote:Part of what BEEMAN wrote is only true for 2014 if there are no other options (ie, no more A123 packs, new of used available). I suspect they will replace the pack with something that has at least the warranty capacity (ie, 65% or more). That doesn't have to be new pack, though I don't think Chevy is stocking up on used 2014 packs.

But if there's no more A123, new or used, and they must replace with LG pack like in 2015+, they may have to modify the gearing. That may be due to different power drawn from the battery at different speeds. Either that, or they may simply "detune" the motor controller, thus making the 2014 with tall gear with lower peak torque. Acceleration will suffer.

If Chevy hates you, and they manage to find used A123 with more than 65%, acceleration will still suffer since older batteries have higher internal resistance than new ones. How much it suffers, of course, depends on that particular battery's level of degradation.
I happen to know for a fact that there are no more A123 packs. I also happen to know that GM does not reman Spark packs. Right now the only pack in production is the 23270164 which is the pack from the 2016 Chevrolet Spark EV. If your battery fails you will get a BRAND NEW 2016 Pack.
Beeman, can you tell us how u know for a fact they only have 2016 batteries. also, why would they have to change gearing. just put in the new batteries. why does it matter. lithium is lithium??
I do not know how they handle the gearing so I was making an assumption on that part. As far as how I know about the batteries I work closely with them daily and have a visual on inventory. Feel free to PM me. The Spark EV is a fantastic car.
2014 Nissan Leaf SL
Leased from 2014-2017

2015 Spark EV
Black Granite, 2LT, DCFC
Purchased Jan 2017

SparkevBlogspot
Posts: 499
Joined: Mon May 25, 2015 12:19 pm

Re: What to watch for when buying used?

Tue Apr 04, 2017 9:48 am

evboy wrote:why does it matter. lithium is lithium??
Lithium is only a part of the picture. A123 in 2014 uses Lithium iron (ferric) phosphate (LFP for short) while LG in 2015+ use Lithium Nickel Manganese Cobalt (NMC). They result in different voltages, about 3.2V per cell for 2104 vs 3.7V for 2015+. Probably due to different voltages while having same energy capacity, fewer cells are needed for 2015+ to achieve ~400V needed, and the over all capacity is decreased from 20.1 kWh in 2014 to 18.4 kWh in 2015+.

Because of different chemistries, internal resistance of 2014 is probably lower. This is probably why 2014 can generate 400 ft-lb of peak torque using more current while 2015+ can only generate 328 ft-lb. Because of current limit, 2014 with 2015+ battery will probably need to "detune" the peak torque.

Return to “General / Main Owners Forum”