emotodude
Posts: 30
Joined: Tue Nov 26, 2013 4:38 pm

Re: 2014 Spark EV down to 15.3kWh, time to take it to the dealer?

Mon Feb 11, 2019 6:10 pm

MrDRMorgan wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 9:51 am
Here are some battery capacity data points for my 2014 Spark EV w/o DCFC:

17 Aug 15 - 1661 miles - 19.86 kwh from Energy Information screen data
15 Aug 16 - 6021 miles - 18.60 kWh from Energy Information screen data
28 Jun 17 - 10550 miles - 17.73 kWh from Energy Information screen data
20 Jun 18 - 14318 miles - 17.2 kWh as measured by TorquePro
7 Feb 19 - 17076 miles - 16.4 kWh as measured by TorquePro

Note: My current TorquePro data for both my 2014 and 2016 Spark EVs show a ~1 kWh drop in battery capacity when the battery temperature drops from around 30 deg. C to 14 deg. C (Jun 18 to Feb 19). How much of this drop is due to battery temperature and how much is due to degradation I will not know until Jun 19 when the battery temperature will be back up to 30 deg. C.
Thanks for the real data points! Unfortunately I don't think I ever figured out the original useable capacity when I 1st bought my car, also a 2014 w/o DCFC.

I just got Torque Pro and the custom PID's figured out and it claims I have 16.2kWh total capacity. Which obviously doesn't agree with the energy information screen.

Any way you figure it, I am somewhere around 20-25 % degradation after ~5.5 years, if you assume a linear degradation scale over the 8 years to 35%, I am definitely scraping along that bottom line. I'll take it to the dealer if it gets much worse...

MrDRMorgan
Posts: 855
Joined: Wed Oct 30, 2013 7:27 am
Location: Manteca, California

Re: 2014 Spark EV down to 15.3kWh, time to take it to the dealer?

Tue Feb 12, 2019 8:25 am

emotodude wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 6:10 pm
MrDRMorgan wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 9:51 am
Here are some battery capacity data points for my 2014 Spark EV w/o DCFC:

17 Aug 15 - 1661 miles - 19.86 kwh from Energy Information screen data
15 Aug 16 - 6021 miles - 18.60 kWh from Energy Information screen data
28 Jun 17 - 10550 miles - 17.73 kWh from Energy Information screen data
20 Jun 18 - 14318 miles - 17.2 kWh as measured by TorquePro
7 Feb 19 - 17076 miles - 16.4 kWh as measured by TorquePro

Note: My current TorquePro data for both my 2014 and 2016 Spark EVs show a ~1 kWh drop in battery capacity when the battery temperature drops from around 30 deg. C to 14 deg. C (Jun 18 to Feb 19). How much of this drop is due to battery temperature and how much is due to degradation I will not know until Jun 19 when the battery temperature will be back up to 30 deg. C.
Thanks for the real data points! Unfortunately I don't think I ever figured out the original useable capacity when I 1st bought my car, also a 2014 w/o DCFC.

I just got Torque Pro and the custom PID's figured out and it claims I have 16.2kWh total capacity. Which obviously doesn't agree with the energy information screen.

Any way you figure it, I am somewhere around 20-25 % degradation after ~5.5 years, if you assume a linear degradation scale over the 8 years to 35%, I am definitely scraping along that bottom line. I'll take it to the dealer if it gets much worse...
I would put more faith in the TorquePro numbers as I found regeneration really distorted the values derived from the energy information screen.

You can see from the data I provided that I have lost approximately 18% of my battery capacity and I only have 17K miles on the ODO! Early morning temperatures here in Manteca have be in the low 30s and my TorquePro data shows a drop of about 1 kWh in battery capacity as compared with the June numbers. What I am trying to understand is how much is due to degradation and how much is due to low battery temperatures. I will not know for sure until June when it starts getting hot. But.... all of my driving is in-town and I still see full charge GOM values in the 80s and 90s. When I run the heater with the temperature set to 72 deg. F, I see my mi/kWh drop to around 3.8 to 4.0 until the car starts to warm up.

What I really find interesting is that the TorquePro measured battery degradation rate for my 2014 Spark EV (since June 2018) matches almost exactly with the battery degradation rate (since June 29018) for my 2016 Spark EV with the 2016 degrading just a bit faster. I will know more in June.

fizzit
Posts: 5
Joined: Sun Nov 18, 2018 10:50 pm

Re: 2014 Spark EV down to 15.3kWh, time to take it to the dealer?

Tue Feb 12, 2019 9:19 am

I'm not sure if it's a hard rule of 35% degradation = replacement. The dealership I took my spark to said they send the info to GM engineering and they decide whether to replace the battery. The dealership has replaced 2 spark batteries and for one of them, GM called the owner and told them to bring their car in. I'm guessing they get battery data through onstar. I have a 2015 that's down to 14kwh and I'm still waiting to hear back from gm engineering.

scrambler
Posts: 115
Joined: Sat Jan 14, 2017 4:11 pm

Re: 2014 Spark EV down to 15.3kWh, time to take it to the dealer?

Tue Feb 12, 2019 9:37 am

I am down to 14kWh, so I will be interested to hear what they tell you :)

Are they charging you anything for the evaluation of your battery capacity?

Thanks

SparkE
Posts: 282
Joined: Tue Sep 06, 2016 1:18 am

Re: 2014 Spark EV down to 15.3kWh, time to take it to the dealer?

Tue Feb 12, 2019 1:40 pm

Having 65% of original 2014 battery would be around 13 kWh remaining.

Having 60% of 2015-16 battery would be around 11 kWh remaining (I seem to recall that for 2015-16 it is loss of 40%).


I knew that there would be battery loss going in, at least 5% a year I figured, so I am not that worried. (Especially since the loss the first year or two is probably higher than later losses.) But then I only paid about $8500 for my vehicle, not $28,500. (After leasing a Spark EV I got very, *very* interested in EVs and noticed that used prices were unbelievably cheap - so I bought used as soon as they started popping up in large numbers.) I also use my Spark as "around town" vehicle (generally 15 mile circle around the house, but up to 30-40 miles away and sometimes further if I will be driving real close to a DCFC) so "only" having 60 miles of range after 5 years is fine with me. I also live in the SF Bay area, where 'cold' means getting below 45F, so the loss due to cold isn't that extreme.

"very, *very* interested in EVs" means (among other things) me tracking all the different EVs that come out, or are announced for for availability 6 months out (or less). My ideal situation would be a combo of two cars for my family : a 125-ish mile BEV and a 30-ish mile (all electric range) PHEV. 120 miles of range covers our normal daily driving over 350 days out of the year. If both of us are driving under 30 miles in the day, no difference. If *one* person is driving 30-110 miles, they take the BEV. If driving further than 110 miles, we take the PHEV (freeway use at 55-ish mph is the best use of a gas engine). That would have us driving electric *almost* all of the time (in 2017, we drove only 3000-ish miles on gas, and over half of those were on 6 distinct days when we travelled over 200 miles each way on trips - the rest were mainly trips to SF, as my wife HATES the extra 20-25 minutes necessary to add 40 miles range to get home, and ... happy wife, happy life, so ...). I'm such a lazy b@sturd, I just can't get away from the ease of a gas fill on a road trip (5 minutes and back on the road for another 400 miles). I really had my eyes on a Hyundai Ioniq pair : one all-electric, and the other PHEV with 30 miles of electric range, 55 mpg, and super, super low emissions on the gas engine. But Hyundai just didn't sell the Ioniq BEV anywhere but L.A. in the U.S. Grrrrr.

TheLondonBroiler
Posts: 150
Joined: Tue Oct 31, 2017 6:25 am

Re: 2014 Spark EV down to 15.3kWh, time to take it to the dealer?

Tue Feb 12, 2019 10:56 pm

I recently ticked up from 14.03kwh (first occurred 1/16/19) to 14.06kwh (first occurred 1/10/19), according to Torque Pro. I've had no further loss since, which is highly unusual, as I monitor it each day I drive, and historically, I have a downward figure at least once a week. Also, I've fast charged probably at least 20 times since the figure has fallen last, and most of those were to 100%. I feel like I've hit the floor (of course, now, the Spark will make me a liar tomorrow).
2015 Spark EV w/ DCFC 41,XXX miles
Purchased 1/20/18 w/ 16,5XX miles

MrDRMorgan
Posts: 855
Joined: Wed Oct 30, 2013 7:27 am
Location: Manteca, California

Re: 2014 Spark EV down to 15.3kWh, time to take it to the dealer?

Thu Feb 14, 2019 8:02 am

TheLondonBroiler wrote:
Tue Feb 12, 2019 10:56 pm
I recently ticked up from 14.03kwh (first occurred 1/16/19) to 14.06kwh (first occurred 1/10/19), according to Torque Pro. I've had no further loss since, which is highly unusual, as I monitor it each day I drive, and historically, I have a downward figure at least once a week. Also, I've fast charged probably at least 20 times since the figure has fallen last, and most of those were to 100%. I feel like I've hit the floor (of course, now, the Spark will make me a liar tomorrow).
Are you tracking the battery temperature too? From June 2018 thru today, both my 2014 and 2016 Spark EVs show a 1 kWh drop in battery capacity as battery temperature dropped from 27-30 degrees C in the summer down to 14-16 degrees C in the winter. Both EVs are kept in a garage which right now is running about 14-16 degrees C.

I am wondering if this might be some sort of protection built into the battery management software to protect the battery from charging damage at temperatures lower than optimum. If true, I would expect my battery capacity loss to diminish and start going back up as we go into spring and the heat of summer.

Note: Since June of last year, the 2014 has only been driven 3038 miles and the 2016 has been driven 6165 miles.

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