SparkE
Posts: 439
Joined: Tue Sep 06, 2016 1:18 am
Location: SF Bay Area (San Jose, CA)

Re: Battery Degradation vs Battery Limited Warranty

Thu Dec 03, 2020 12:12 pm

TheLondonBroiler wrote:
Wed Dec 02, 2020 9:56 pm
zzzzzzzz wrote:
Wed Dec 02, 2020 10:45 am
13.7 kW? That does seem low for only 32k miles.

What else?
Pretty much par for the course. Time and usage both appear to be merciless at removing capacity from Spark battery packs. We all charge to 100% for the most part, and that impacts cycle life. This only snowballs as you have less range, you need to charge to a higher SOC, furthering the problem. Text book definition of a vicious cycle.
I, myself, rarely charge past 85%. And I don't charge when it is hot. During the summer, I used to plug in the Spark in the early morning when I get up, when the pack is at its coolest. Now, I use departure timing, and have it set to me leaving (being at 100%) at 10:30 in the morning, so all I have to do is unplug it around 9 a.m. I don't know if it has done any good or not, but it is free to simply pay attention and it takes maybe 30 seconds in the morning. And I still have over 15 kWh in the battery.

But then, I rarely drive it over 40 miles in a day, so I can do that. When I *know* I am going to drive over 50 miles, it charges overnight to 100%. Probably once every 2-3 months in normal times - not once since April of this year.

Mesasand
Posts: 28
Joined: Sat Jan 19, 2019 10:14 pm
Location: Las Vegas, NV

Re: Battery Degradation vs Battery Limited Warranty

Wed Dec 16, 2020 12:58 pm

I took a suggestion from one of the other posts on here, and I’m running my battery down below 30% before recharging. My experience is my battery went from 13.4 to 14.0 after doing it three times.
Mesasand
—————-
2016 Spark EV LT2, 30k miles

zzzzzzzz
Posts: 50
Joined: Sat Apr 09, 2016 10:03 pm
Location: Portland, OR

Re: Battery Degradation vs Battery Limited Warranty

Mon Dec 21, 2020 9:36 am

Still no major improvements on my side. I pumped up the tires to 40PSI 5 days ago and still average 13.26 kWh capacity since then. I have been parking the car outside since last September 2019 due to an addition of a Fiat Abarth 500 taking up that garage space now, so I think as a test, for tonight for tomorrow and Wednesday's commute I'll switch those spaces and see if parking in the garage makes any noticeable difference.

Frustrating. This weekend I've been looking at i3's and Bolts. If the degradation keeps up, I'd rather get rid of it now. It's been a good 4-5 years owning the Spark, and no complaints other then this range issue (potentially).

TheLondonBroiler
Posts: 282
Joined: Tue Oct 31, 2017 6:25 am

Re: Battery Degradation vs Battery Limited Warranty

Thu Dec 24, 2020 11:35 am

zzzzzzzz wrote:
Mon Dec 21, 2020 9:36 am
Still no major improvements on my side. I pumped up the tires to 40PSI 5 days ago and still average 13.26 kWh capacity since then.

see if parking in the garage makes any noticeable difference.

If the degradation keeps up, I'd rather get rid of it now. It's been a good 4-5 years owning the Spark, and no complaints other then this range issue (potentially).
I think if you're expecting more than half a kilowatt, you're going to be disappointed. My Spark was reading 13.3kwh, but after taking it on a 1,500 mile trip over the course of a week, with dozens of fast charges, it was giving a reading of 13.7kwh.

If degradation keeps the same rate of degradation, "technically" you should be eligible for a new battery @ 10.8kwh (in your 2016). Will the Spark meet your needs (or many owners for that matter) at that point though, I wonder? If you're surrounded by fast chargers, it's more likely, but if not....

Regardless of what you decide to do with it, best of luck.
2015 Spark EV w/ DCFC 48,XXX miles
Purchased 1/20/18 w/ 16,5XX miles
0-40k mile efficiency avg - 5.3 mi/kwh

2019 Bolt EV w/ DCFC 73,XXX miles
Purchased 3/16/19 w/ 87 miles
Lifetime efficiency avg - 4.8 mi/kwh

zzzzzzzz
Posts: 50
Joined: Sat Apr 09, 2016 10:03 pm
Location: Portland, OR

Re: Battery Degradation vs Battery Limited Warranty

Sat Dec 26, 2020 3:46 pm

TheLondonBroiler wrote:
Thu Dec 24, 2020 11:35 am
I think if you're expecting more than half a kilowatt, you're going to be disappointed. My Spark was reading 13.3kwh, but after taking it on a 1,500 mile trip over the course of a week, with dozens of fast charges, it was giving a reading of 13.7kwh.

If degradation keeps the same rate of degradation, "technically" you should be eligible for a new battery @ 10.8kwh (in your 2016). Will the Spark meet your needs (or many owners for that matter) at that point though, I wonder? If you're surrounded by fast chargers, it's more likely, but if not....

Regardless of what you decide to do with it, best of luck.
LondonBroiler, looking at your signature got me curious on my own lifetime efficiency, and at 60,426 miles on the Chevrolet app its at a dismal 4.0 mi/kWh. I don't know what I'm expecting, just hate this sudden drop of capacity in the last year. If the capacity stayed within about .5kWh per year, I'd be fine with that, but it's much worst. What I have been pondering is just trading in the Spark for...maybe a 2020 Bolt? There has to be lots of inventory and plenty of sales now at year end. If I can get 5k in trade-in for my Spark, I'd be happy with that.

I see you have a Bolt also, and at 70k miles in about a year's time? :shock: How is the Bolt compared to the Spark?

TheLondonBroiler
Posts: 282
Joined: Tue Oct 31, 2017 6:25 am

Re: Battery Degradation vs Battery Limited Warranty

Sat Dec 26, 2020 4:12 pm

zzzzzzzz wrote:
Sat Dec 26, 2020 3:46 pm
If the capacity stayed within about .5kWh per year, I'd be fine with that, but it's much worst. What I have been pondering is just trading in the Spark for...maybe a 2020 Bolt? There has to be lots of inventory and plenty of sales now at year end. If I can get 5k in trade-in for my Spark, I'd be happy with that.

I see you have a Bolt also, and at 70k miles in about a year's time? :shock: How is the Bolt compared to the Spark?
I believe my degradation has slowed only due to not driving it much. I lost ~0.3kwh in the last 18 months with probably 3,000 miles of driving.

I like the Bolt a lot, it's a lot more refined, it's obviously bigger and has more features, compared to the Spark. The only things I dislike that I think could easily be improved upon and are worthwhile mentioning: fast charge speed/curve (2020 minimally better); seats aren't particularly comfortable; and the suspension is a bit too rough for my liking (a rear multi-link would be a huge improvement).

All in all, I think the Bolt is a better car, still "the most EV for your money," imo. There are "better" options, but all things considered, it's tough to beat.
2015 Spark EV w/ DCFC 48,XXX miles
Purchased 1/20/18 w/ 16,5XX miles
0-40k mile efficiency avg - 5.3 mi/kwh

2019 Bolt EV w/ DCFC 73,XXX miles
Purchased 3/16/19 w/ 87 miles
Lifetime efficiency avg - 4.8 mi/kwh

zzzzzzzz
Posts: 50
Joined: Sat Apr 09, 2016 10:03 pm
Location: Portland, OR

Re: Battery Degradation vs Battery Limited Warranty

Mon Dec 28, 2020 1:57 pm

TheLondonBroiler wrote:
Sat Dec 26, 2020 4:12 pm
I believe my degradation has slowed only due to not driving it much. I lost ~0.3kwh in the last 18 months with probably 3,000 miles of driving.

I like the Bolt a lot, it's a lot more refined, it's obviously bigger and has more features, compared to the Spark. The only things I dislike that I think could easily be improved upon and are worthwhile mentioning: fast charge speed/curve (2020 minimally better); seats aren't particularly comfortable; and the suspension is a bit too rough for my liking (a rear multi-link would be a huge improvement).

All in all, I think the Bolt is a better car, still "the most EV for your money," imo. There are "better" options, but all things considered, it's tough to beat.
Thanks, good to know on the Bolt. Ideally I can find a used one at under 30k miles for around 13k and I'll buy. Or a new one at 20k.

In any case, I've just scheduled an appointment with the dealership to diagnose the battery capacity. There's a $150 diagnosis fee and if they find the battery needs to be serviced under warranty, they will forgo the charge and complete the warranty work. I bet money that the battery is "in perfectly good health and is on the correct degradation cycle" and they take my $150. At least it'll be documented in their system that the capacity is at 13 kWh or whatever so when next year comes around and I'm at 12 or 11 kWh they can see the exponential decline and will have to replace the battery.

We'll see what happens by next week.

NORTON
Posts: 1351
Joined: Fri May 01, 2015 5:52 am
Location: KC,MO

Re: Battery Degradation vs Battery Limited Warranty

Tue Dec 29, 2020 4:52 am

zzzzzzzz wrote:
Mon Dec 28, 2020 1:57 pm
In any case, I've just scheduled an appointment with the dealership to diagnose the battery capacity. There's a $150 diagnosis fee ....I bet money that the battery is "in perfectly good health ... and they take my $150. At least it'll be documented ....
Sounds like a lot of bother and $150 for 'documented'.
Why not wait for warmer weather and see how your numbers look then?
You have the 8yr - 100k mile period to dik with this... ;)
'14 Spark EV 2LT w/ DCFC. 85k miles.
'17 Bolt Premier w/ It All! 53k miles.
GM needs Modern Troubleshooting tools for Modern EV's.
3 step Trouble Tree, 1st try, nope, 2nd try / cost $800. 3rd try fixed it.

zzzzzzzz
Posts: 50
Joined: Sat Apr 09, 2016 10:03 pm
Location: Portland, OR

Re: Battery Degradation vs Battery Limited Warranty

Tue Dec 29, 2020 9:01 am

NORTON wrote:
Tue Dec 29, 2020 4:52 am
Sounds like a lot of bother and $150 for 'documented'.
Why not wait for warmer weather and see how your numbers look then?
You have the 8yr - 100k mile period to dik with this... ;)
I took an average of my readings per year between 2018 and 2020 and did a line prediction for 2021-2024, and at 2024 I could expect to be at 8.09 usable capacity for 36.03 miles when the warranty should be 11.04 kWh for a range of 49.2 miles (40% of 18.2kWh). I'm going to show this summary and my detailed log to the dealership, and "express" my unhappiness and major concern of the range of the vehicle thus far as well as what may happen in the next few years.

Desc - 2016 - 2018 - 2019 - 2020 - 2021 - 2022 - 2023 - 2024
kWh - 18.4 - 16.98 - 15.71 - 13.99 - 12.57 - 11.08 - 9.58 - 8.09
Miles - 82 - 75.67 - 70.01 - 62.35 - 56.02 - 49.36 - 42.69 - 36.03

We own both a Spark and Volt, so hopefully they see that I'm a diligent Chevrolet vehicle owner and be willing to help.

TheLondonBroiler
Posts: 282
Joined: Tue Oct 31, 2017 6:25 am

Re: Battery Degradation vs Battery Limited Warranty

Tue Dec 29, 2020 1:37 pm

zzzzzzzz wrote:
Tue Dec 29, 2020 9:01 am
NORTON wrote:
Tue Dec 29, 2020 4:52 am
Sounds like a lot of bother and $150 for 'documented'.
I'm going to show this summary and my detailed log to the dealership, and "express" my unhappiness and major concern of the range of the vehicle thus far as well as what may happen in the next few years.

We own both a Spark and Volt, so hopefully they see that I'm a diligent Chevrolet vehicle owner and be willing to help.
Agree with Norton, wouldn't waste my time at the dealer. They're going to tell you to come back when you have a real warranty claim and maybe also that they believe degradation may not be linear..... Dude, trust me, I've got a Spark and Bolt, with the same degradation and a low range issue respectively, GM doesn't care until you have something that forces their hand.... and even then, you'll have to kick and scream and probably still have to go to court, or threaten to.
2015 Spark EV w/ DCFC 48,XXX miles
Purchased 1/20/18 w/ 16,5XX miles
0-40k mile efficiency avg - 5.3 mi/kwh

2019 Bolt EV w/ DCFC 73,XXX miles
Purchased 3/16/19 w/ 87 miles
Lifetime efficiency avg - 4.8 mi/kwh

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