Chevy Spark EV vs Ford Focus Electric

[oilerlord]

Still shopping.

Used Ford Focus Electrics can be had for around the same price of a Spark EV with 2LT package. I posted earlier about fast charging, and if that's important in a city that doesn't have any L3 chargers. To that point, being able to charge at 6.6kW is much more important (to me) than the future availability of SAE fast charging. I see a recurring scenario of getting home from work with 20% left on the battery, and then having to drive somewhere that evening. With the Ford, I'd be able to get ~25 miles per hour on L2 charging, but only half that with the Spark (which is limited to 3.3kW).

No doubt the 3600lb Focus Electric is a porker compared to the nimble Spark EV, however the Ford is larger and somewhat more luxurious. I've come to realize that with the exception of buying a Tesla, every EV has it's pros & cons. It's all about finding the compromise you can live with. Has anyone here had experience with the Focus Electric?

 

[nikwax]

Here you go:


http://www.caranddriver.com/comparisons/2014-chevy-spark-ev-vs-fiat-500e-ford-focus-electric-honda-fit-ev-nissan-leaf-smart-fortwo-ed-comparison-test




they're very different cars in my opinion. The Focus seems much more like the Leaf and the VW EV, a four passenger car with luxurious details and boat like handling. The Spark is more of a two passenger car that goes fast.


Speaking of the Leaf: lots of those around used for relatively small money, and lots of charging infrastructure for them

 

[oilerlord]

Here you go:


http://www.caranddriver.com/comparisons/2014-chevy-spark-ev-vs-fiat-500e-ford-focus-electric-honda-fit-ev-nissan-leaf-smart-fortwo-ed-comparison-test

they're very different cars in my opinion. The Focus seems much more like the Leaf and the VW EV, a four passenger car with luxurious details and boat like handling. The Spark is more of a two passenger car that goes fast.

Speaking of the Leaf: lots of those around used for relatively small money, and lots of charging infrastructure for them

Thanks.

Though a lot of cheap Leafs are available, ones with as little as 20K miles on them have already lost a bar or two likely due to the lack of the liquid battery cooling that both the Spark and Focus have. From what I've read, that goes a long way to making the battery last. Car & Driver describes the Focus Electric as the "Tesla for the rest of us" but picked the Spark EV #1 overall. My wife had the chance to drive a Spark EV a month ago. She said she "didn't feel safe". It was the first time she ever drove an EV, and that experience alone may have been unsettling. The larger & heavier Focus may have that solid feel that she's used to in her BMW.

I'm buying the EV for myself, but I do want her to embrace the concept of EV's as much as I have, and hold out hope that she will WANT to drive the car too. We'll be in California next month, and will take the FFE out for a spin as none are available anywhere in Alberta.

 

[SparkevBlogspot]

6.6kW charging may be an issue for you as you mentioned 15A service at home. You need at least 40A with 6.6kW. While upgrading from 15A to 20A for 3.3kW may be easier (may just need breaker), upgrading to 40A might require significant work. My situation was extreme (had to pull about 150 ft of wire plus digging plus new panel), and I was quoted almost $10K. Fortunately, I found a service in the barn, so I park bit further. I doubt yours will be so involved, but replacing to thicker wiring may cost thousands.

I think you should look into upgrading your house wiring before getting EV. I recommend at least 50A service, preferably 100A to anticipate that brand new Tesla P100D with Ludicrous mode and 80A charging ability that you'll be getting "soon" (note the quotes). It might also do you good since there will be new EV coming with longer range, making current crop of lower range used EV to go down in price further. BMW i3 REx or even Volt might serve you well. I read that iMiev (3.3kW) cost $10K CAD less than SparkEV, so that might be another option.

SparkEV isn't for everyone. It is a performance car packed into subcompact, and as such, it does need driver attention due to some twitchiness (eg. torque steer under hard acceleration). To give you an idea, SparkEV accelerates 5-60 mph about as quick as Ford Focus ST, their $30K "performance" car.

 

[nikwax]

I agree that looking into your wiring situation would be a logical next step. I had 50 amp service installed for my EVSE, with permits it was only about $500, and I'll get a lot of that back through tax credits. I'm also considering it an asset when the house is sold.


I have a colleague who bought a used Volt, she loves it and is still at 100% electric usage after several months. That could be a car that you wife would go for as well.

 

[oilerlord]

Good ideas.

The outlet I have in the garage is a nema 6-15, so I'd be upgrading it anyway. Our panel is relatively modern, and the wiring run from the panel to the existing 240 outlet in the garage is only about 15 feet, so with the help of my master electrician friend, installing the "right" charging infrastructure shouldn't be a big deal.

I had the pleasure of driving the Spark EV. With it's light weight and big torque, it really is fun to drive. I usually drive for efficiency and while lighting up the front tires is fun, I won't do it often. Charging fast is more important to me than driving fast.

 

[oilerlord]

I think you should look into upgrading your house wiring before getting EV. I recommend at least 50A service, preferably 100A to anticipate that brand new Tesla P100D with Ludicrous mode and 80A charging ability that you'll be getting "soon" (note the quotes).

On your advice, I picked up a new-in-box Clipper Creek HCS-40P on ebay for a good deal. My electrician friend is upgrading the existing garage circuit to 50A, and installing a 14-50 outlet. This CC model allows for up to 7.7kW charging, so should be relatively future proof. All I need now is an EV to plug into it

 

[NORTON]

... This CC model allows for up to 7.7kW charging, so should be relatively future proof. All I need now is an EV to plug into it

Now that is what I call planning ahead !!!!

You are all set for the Bolt. When will it show up in the great white north? Who knows?

You could go the cheapest way just to start driving EV, until you settle on a modern one. I considered one briefly, but it's rear wheel drive. They do offer DCFC optionally. Filter the search as needed.
https://www.cars.com/for-sale/searchresults.action?zc=92110&rd=500&prMx=10000&mdId=45843&mkId=20030&stkTypId=28881&sf1Nm=price&sf1Dir=ASC&sf2Nm=price&sf2Dir=DESC&page=1&perPage=50&searchSource=SORT

I sent this to my daughter who is moving to San Diego and will 'need' a car. She wants an EV !!

 

[SparkevBlogspot]

If you daughter doesn't mind driving from NoCal to San Diego, why not lease a SparkEV? If her income is under about $35K (3X poverty level), she can get CA rebate of $4000 starting April, which could make her payment to be about $13/mo for 3 years: ($1500 down + $80/mo * 36 mo - $4000 + tax etc)/36 = about $13/mo

http://www.chevroletoffremont.com/Specials

That's cheaper than any car, used or new, gas or EV. That's even cheaper than a generous Macdonalds meal!

 

[oilerlord]

If you daughter doesn't mind driving from NoCal to San Diego, why not lease a SparkEV? If her income is under about $35K (3X poverty level), she can get CA rebate of $4000 starting April, which could make her payment to be about $13/mo for 3 years: ($1500 down + $80/mo * 36 mo - $4000 + tax etc)/36 = about $13/mo

http://www.chevroletoffremont.com/Specials

That's cheaper than any car, used or new, gas or EV. That's even cheaper than a generous Macdonalds meal!

I put in an offer on a 2013 FFE this morning, but I think the dealership is closed and will hear back tomorrow if it was accepted. That is a freaking incredible lease deal on the Spark! I'm sure that the federal and state tax credits are rolled into that, so no luck for Canadians.

I suppose my buddy that lives in Carlsbad could sign a lease, and then I take it over...but not sure how that would work with getting the car across the border as the US border security stamps the title "exported", so it wouldn't be easy returning it after 36 months. I suppose he would have to keep it in his name, register with the DMV then I make the payments...but then he would have to cross the border with the car as the owner. Definitely tempting to pursue but too big a favor to ask of my friend and too many moving parts to the deal. It's amazing how desperate GM is to get those ZEV credits.

 

[oilerlord]

Now that is what I call planning ahead !!!!

You are all set for the Bolt. When will it show up in the great white north? Who knows?

You could go the cheapest way just to start driving EV, until you settle on a modern one. I considered one briefly, but it's rear wheel drive. They do offer DCFC optionally. Filter the search as needed.
https://www.cars.com/for-sale/searchresults.action?zc=92110&rd=500&prMx=10000&mdId=45843&mkId=20030&stkTypId=28881&sf1Nm=price&sf1Dir=ASC&sf2Nm=price&sf2Dir=DESC&page=1&perPage=50&searchSource=SORT

I sent this to my daughter who is moving to San Diego and will 'need' a car. She wants an EV !!

We have Spark EV's in Canada, and I could order a new one from my local Chevy dealer but we don't have the any purchase incentives on the car. It's amazing that you guys are able to lease them for $1500 down, and $79 per month. I'm sure we'll see the Bolt on the Canadian website, but without government incentives I doubt we'll see it in Alberta dealer showrooms. We don't even have Volt's anywhere in Alberta.

I did consider the I-MiEV, and there's a dealer in Wisconsin that offered to sell me a 20K mile SE for $5500. It's an unbeatable value, however my wife already told me she doesn't like the car and would never drive it so if I want her to embrace the concept of EV's, owning the most basic and cheapest one won't help. For an extra $5,000 over the cost of that used i-MiEV, I do think the Focus, with it's upscale interior and familiar car comforts will help sell the idea of us driving something "different". She still thinks I'm crazy buying a car that only has an 80 mile range.

 

[NORTON]

.... She still thinks I'm crazy buying a car that only has an 80 mile range.

Tell her she can have the iMiev painted her favorite color !! jk.
Too bad about no tax incentives, so, used it is.

I was a little concerned about making the plunge to a Spark EV from my Volt.
In the ~9 months I've owned it I drove my gasser just a handful of times. Mainly last summer on road trips to the lake house. (all I need is a DCFC in this one city and I could drive there EV !)

I hate it when I do it, but lately I force myself to take the gasser out for a "Sympathy Drive", maybe once every month or two.

 

[SparkevBlogspot]

You wouldn't qualify for CA rebate, but fed tax credit is taken by the leasing company. If cross border lease is possible, you'd still get "normal" deal of $1500 down + $80/mo for 36 mo.

Using your buddy to take CA rebate is probably not legal as the CA rebate is to have the person drive the car for at least 3 years. But does normal lease without CA rebate allow cross border sub lease if it normally doesn't allow cross border lease? I don't know, probably too involved to be worth your effort.

I don't think GM is desperate for ZEV credits. They sold over 100,000 EV between Volt, ELR, and SparkEV (about 5000 total for SparkEV). Given that they're getting huge discount on LG battery, probably 1/3 what they originally paid, I think they're just realizing how great SparkEV is and allowing some dealers to make great deals before they discontinue later in the year. Or maybe they're reading my blog posts.

As for 80 miles range, how many miles does she typically drive in a day? Most people drive less than 60 miles a day (30 minutes away from home, 1 hour drive a day), and EV get "full tank of charge" every morning as if by magic. Then 80 miles is perfectly fine for most driving, especially if they can charge at work. It's those "rare" times when you need more than 80 miles that becomes a problem IF EV is the only car, there's no DCFC, you don't have a second gas car or cannot rent one; that's almost never the case.

EV range varies greatly with your driving pattern and the terrain. One should also factor in "fudge factor" of about 10 miles. I roughly characterized SparkEV range in my blog posts: model based on car's physical attributes, model based purely on observed ranges and polynomial math, model based on basic hill climbing physics.

http://sparkev.blogspot.com/2016/01/sparkev-range.html
http://sparkev.blogspot.com/2016/03/range-polynomial.html
http://sparkev.blogspot.com/2016/03/range-polynomial-climbing-hill.html

But I don't know how the range varies with FFE. FFE has less range than SparkEV when new (I think EPA 76 miles vs 82 for SparkEV). Older battery will have less range, so you're looking at 66 miles or less of usable range when you include margin. As the battery gets older, range will also go down. With 2014 SparkEV, Kevin has a plot of range degradation somewhere in forum; at least that's one data, but I don't know if similar exist for FFE.

 

[oilerlord]

You wouldn't qualify for CA rebate, but fed tax credit is taken by the leasing company. If cross border lease is possible, you'd still get "normal" deal of $1500 down + $80/mo for 36 mo.

As for 80 miles range, how many miles does she typically drive in a day? Most people drive less than 60 miles a day (30 minutes away from home, 1 hour drive a day), and EV get "full tank of charge" every morning as if by magic. Then 80 miles is perfectly fine for most driving, especially if they can charge at work. It's those "rare" times when you need more than 80 miles that becomes a problem IF EV is the only car, there's no DCFC, you don't have a second gas car or cannot rent one; that's almost never the case.

The car is for me, not for my wife. I'm fine with 80 miles on a charge because I doubt I'll need half that in most situations. My point is that there are times when the EV is perfect for either one of us for grocery getting and other short trips and I want her to love the car - not only because it's electric. In the summer, she makes long-ish 20 mile round trips to a local farm to buy fresh vegetables. In conversations with friends that ask questions about our solar, they always ask how many years it will take to pay for itself. I tell them that powering your house (or car) with free energy from the sun will save money in the long term but is more akin to growing your own vegetables. I think that's when my wife understood why I'm buying an EV. It's not only about saving money.