Possible Lease of Spark EV - opinions

[nozferatu]

So I got an offer from a local dealership that I wanted to run by current Spark EV owners and see what you all think.

I've a 2012 Fiat 500 Sport that I am currently leasing that I will need to get out of.

The dealership has offered to pretty much pay off the lease (or be very close to payoff) as far as I understood which is a few grand more than the trade in value I could normally get so that's a good thing.

2014 Spark EV LT2 deal:

(with Fiat buyout of lease)

$199/month including tax ($1169 down)
$253/month including tax (no money down)
3 yrs of onstar and nav free.
2 yrs of maintenance free

I still have to check with my insurance company if buying the Spark will be cheaper than my Fiat for insurance...we'll see.
I need to get a charger...thinking of the Bosch 240, 30 AMP with $500 rebate if it's still around.
I also need to map out my daily driving habits just to make sure I can get around fully.

Cheers.

 

[cwerdna]

FYP.

I need to get a EVSE...thinking of the Bosch 240, 30 AMP with $500 rebate if it's still around.

You mean EVSE, not charger. For L1 and L2 AC charging, charger's on-board the car. See http://www.mychevysparkev.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=3549.

Why do you "need" it? Why a 30 amp 240 volt EVSE? Can your breaker panel accommodate another 40 amp circuit?

You do realize the car's on-board charger is only 3.3 kW, right? So, anything above 16 amps would be overkill. But... if you're planning for another EV/PHEV that can pull more than 16 amps...

 

[nozferatu]

FYP.

I need to get a EVSE...thinking of the Bosch 240, 30 AMP with $500 rebate if it's still around.

You mean EVSE, not charger. For L1 and L2 AC charging, charger's on-board the car. See http://www.mychevysparkev.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=3549.

Why do you "need" it? Why a 30 amp 240 volt EVSE? Can your breaker panel accommodate another 40 amp circuit?

You do realize the car's on-board charger is only 3.3 kW, right? So, anything above 16 amps would be overkill. But... if you're planning for another EV/PHEV that can pull more than 16 amps...

I'm sorry..you lost me...where does your post address the question of the deal again????

Second, yes....some people would like to think ahead and purchase another EV shortly thereafter and use higher output "EVSE" that the other EV can handle. Do you think this way with your computer equipment or cars in general? Just get the bare minimum?

Third, why would I not purchase a 30 AMP, 240 Volt EVSE if I can practically get it for free?? Is there a downside to having additional capacity for later use?? How much would I save if I got one that was limited to the Spark EV's maximum charging rate ability?

Fourth, yes...my panel can handle that much amperage.

 

[cwerdna]

^^^
I'm unaware of a $500 rebate. Have a link to it? The 30 amp version of the above EVSE costs more than the 16 amp version.

For me, when I was evaluated for http://evsolutions.avinc.com/products/cec/eligibility_criteria, since they'd only be installing an Aerovironment 30 amp EVSE (requires 40 amp circuit), it was found that my load center was insufficient and that it'd require $5K of work, to dig, run another line, etc., none of which would be covered. No thanks. Not going to pay $5K for something I don't need on a car w/a 2 year lease.

If one has electrical limitations, then an EVSE that only requires a 20 amp circuit has a better chance of fitting within the limitations than one that requires a 40 amp circuit.

As for "need", perhaps you don't actually "need" it. I've put over 6K miles on my Leaf and haven't bought any EVSE. It's almost all free L2 charging at work and a bit of charging on weekends w/the supplied L1 EVSE & free public L2 charging. Some folks at work have Volts and have no ability to charge at home at all.

Since you seemed previously so confused, I'm just try to see if you actually "need" something, esp. if it costs money or more money. Also, since some people here don't seem to understand the difference between an EVSE and an (on-board) charger, they may be mistaken into thinking that getting a 30 (or 40) amp 240 volt EVSE will speed up charging on a 3.3 kW OBC car vs. having only a 16 amp EVSE. I believe this mistake has already happened at least once over on MNL.

BTW, IMHO, it's a better idea to put no $ down. For many (most?) leases, if the car gets totaled, you won't get any of that down payment back.

 

[nozferatu]

^^^
I'm unaware of a $500 rebate. Have a link to it? The 30 amp version of the above EVSE costs more than the 16 amp version.

For me, when I was evaluated for http://evsolutions.avinc.com/products/cec/eligibility_criteria, since they'd only be installing an Aerovironment 30 amp EVSE (requires 40 amp circuit), it was found that my load center was insufficient and that it'd require $5K of work, to dig, run another line, etc., none of which would be covered. No thanks. Not going to pay $5K for something I don't need on a car w/a 2 year lease.

If one has electrical limitations, then an EVSE that only requires a 20 amp circuit has a better chance of fitting within the limitations than one that requires a 40 amp circuit.

As for "need", perhaps you don't actually "need" it. I've put over 6K miles on my Leaf and haven't bought any EVSE. It's almost all free L2 charging at work and a bit of charging on weekends w/the supplied L1 EVSE & free public L2 charging. Some folks at work have Volts and have no ability to charge at home at all.

Since you seemed previously so confused, I'm just try to see if you actually "need" something, esp. if it costs money or more money. Also, since some people here don't seem to understand the difference between an EVSE and an (on-board) charger, they may be mistaken into thinking that getting a 30 (or 40) amp 240 volt EVSE will speed up charging on a 3.3 kW OBC car vs. having only a 16 amp EVSE. I believe this mistake has already happened at least once over on MNL.

BTW, IMHO, it's a better idea to put no $ down. For many (most?) leases, if the car gets totaled, you won't get any of that down payment back.

I work from home much of the time so for me an EVSE would be a good idea.

The discount is here...

http://www.pluginnow.com/discount

 

[Anonymous]

Can't really tell how good of a lease deal you are getting without them breaking it down.

Ask them to provide you the breakdown of the lease from their system showing the residual, expected tax rate, other fees, etc.

As an example, I just got a lease on a Titanium 2LT with the DC fast charging capability for $2000 drive off (some dealers quote "down" without drive off which has additional costs), and $188.36/month before taxes. Of course my tax rate is a little lower, so the important numbers are:

Sales price:
26,800 (with fast charger, which is generally invoice of $660)
-4634.60 cap cost reduction (net of $3575 dealer rebate, $2k my cash and all the fees and taxes)
=22670.40 adjusted cap cost
-16570.60 residual (at 58% of MSRP)
=6189.80 depreciation
+600.88 (rent charge)
=6790.68 scheduled payments
/36 = $188.63 per month pre tax.

you will want to make sure to make sure that the fees and taxes don't have too much crap in them, mine looked overall ok, and make sure the purchase price is as low as possible. I saw a sheet that showed the invoice price on a 2LT was 25,818.60. after holdback, destination and dealer credit, the dealer cost for the car was $26716.85 on my car.

Overall I felt I did pretty good on my lease deal. I probably could have got it a little cheaper but I had already used up two days of my time and I didn't feel like working it more to get another couple hundred bucks over 3 years. For yours, since they are paying off your lease, you will want to see how much $$ they are giving you for that, or if they are just rolling it into your lease.

 

[nozferatu]

Can't really tell how good of a lease deal you are getting without them breaking it down.

Ask them to provide you the breakdown of the lease from their system showing the residual, expected tax rate, other fees, etc.

As an example, I just got a lease on a Titanium 2LT with the DC fast charging capability for $2000 drive off (some dealers quote "down" without drive off which has additional costs), and $188.36/month before taxes. Of course my tax rate is a little lower, so the important numbers are:

Sales price:
26,800 (with fast charger, which is generally invoice of $660)
-4634.60 cap cost reduction (net of $3575 dealer rebate, $2k my cash and all the fees and taxes)
=22670.40 adjusted cap cost
-16570.60 residual (at 58% of MSRP)
=6189.80 depreciation
+600.88 (rent charge)
=6790.68 scheduled payments
/36 = $188.63 per month pre tax.

you will want to make sure to make sure that the fees and taxes don't have too much crap in them, mine looked overall ok, and make sure the purchase price is as low as possible. I saw a sheet that showed the invoice price on a 2LT was 25,818.60. after holdback, destination and dealer credit, the dealer cost for the car was $26716.85 on my car.

Overall I felt I did pretty good on my lease deal. I probably could have got it a little cheaper but I had already used up two days of my time and I didn't feel like working it more to get another couple hundred bucks over 3 years. For yours, since they are paying off your lease, you will want to see how much $$ they are giving you for that, or if they are just rolling it into your lease.

Good stuff...looks like you got a decent deal.

I'll try and get more details. I may end up just going through Costo Auto...a friend of mine did that and it was a very smooth experience. Clearly he didn't get the bottom of the barrel price but the time he saved was well worth the few extra dollars he probably ended up paying.

Thanks for your reply BMB.

How do you like the car so far? Pluses? Minuses? Quality? Etc?

 

[NomadMac]

^^^
I'm unaware of a $500 rebate.

It's actually a $500 credit. My 16 amp Bosch is arriving tomorrow through the Spark EV/Bosch program.
I'm out of pocket $38.31.

Orders must be placed through the phone. You'll need to email or fax a copy of your registration. Even the temporary registration in your car window will do.

 

[nozferatu]

^^^
I'm unaware of a $500 rebate.

It's actually a $500 credit. My 16 amp Bosch is arriving tomorrow through the Spark EV/Bosch program.
I'm out of pocket $38.31.

Orders must be placed through the phone. You'll need to email or fax a copy of your registration. Even the temporary registration in your car window will do.

How much was installation? What's your house current/circuit rated at? Just curious.

 

[NomadMac]

^^^
I'm unaware of a $500 rebate.

It's actually a $500 credit. My 16 amp Bosch is arriving tomorrow through the Spark EV/Bosch program.
I'm out of pocket $38.31.

Orders must be placed through the phone. You'll need to email or fax a copy of your registration. Even the temporary registration in your car window will do.

How much was installation? What's your house current/circuit rated at? Just curious.

$24 for a plug end and cord, plus a six pack to my electrician friend.
I already had a 20 amp outlet in my garage for my welder; one of the reasons I went with the 16 amp EVSE.
(That obviously doesn't include the $1700 I spent for an upgraded 200 amp panel two years ago and the lease for 16 solar panels.)

 

[cwerdna]

The discount is here...

http://www.pluginnow.com/discount

Very cool! Assuming this is a legit offer, there should be a sticky post for this, if there isn't one already.

 

[nozferatu]

$24 for a plug end and cord, plus a six pack to my electrician friend.
I already had a 20 amp outlet in my garage for my welder; one of the reasons I went with the 16 amp EVSE.
(That obviously doesn't include the $1700 I spent for an upgraded 200 amp panel two years ago and the lease for 16 solar panels.)

Sweet!

My panel is rated at 40 AMPs I believe. So that should do. I figure they'll probably install it for a few hundred bucks.

 

[StevesWeb]

The discount is here...

http://www.pluginnow.com/discount

Very cool! Assuming this is a legit offer, there should be a sticky post for this, if there isn't one already.

It appears to be legitimate to me, I got $500 off on a $593 EVSE.

We had the Bosch 30A 18foot cord L2 EVSE installed on Sunday, the city is scheduled to inspect it today. We had plenty of capacity in our main panel, but we had to run 120' of 8 gauge wire to reach our carport. It is a 2 car carport and eventually we are likely to have a second EV or a PHEV.

 

[nozferatu]

The discount is here...

http://www.pluginnow.com/discount

Very cool! Assuming this is a legit offer, there should be a sticky post for this, if there isn't one already.

It appears to be legitimate to me, I got $500 off on a $593 EVSE.

We had the Bosch 30A 18foot cord L2 EVSE installed on Sunday, the city is scheduled to inspect it today. We had plenty of capacity in our main panel, but we had to run 120' of 8 gauge wire to reach our carport. It is a 2 car carport and eventually we are likely to have a second EV or a PHEV.

Well bad news for me...I just can't get what I need to get out of my lease free and clear...seems I'm gonna drive my Fiat for another 18 months!

I'm sure something better will be out by then. Ah well.

 

[nozferatu]

Not all is lost apparently.

So here are the final numbers for the LT2 that the dealer came up with.

$925 down, $259/month INC. TAX and they pay off my car; 12K miles a year.

I also get:

$2500 CA rebate
3 years of OnStar
HOV Lane Sticker

What do you guys think? Worth the hit? I'm paying $260/m INC TAX for my current car but put no money down when I got it.

Thanks.

 

[gambit]

I put $999 down and pay $235 per month on a lease of the 1LT for 36 months and 36,000 miles.

From my perspective, you seem to have a pretty good offer since they're going to take care of your Fiat lease.

The $2500 rebate will almost cover your first 10 months of lease payments, so you're effectively incurring lease payments for less than 27 months.

And if you can get you're electrical Tier rate optimized, your total monthly fuel cost should significantly less than the gasoline you're buying for the Fiat.

 

[nozferatu]

I put $999 down and pay $235 per month on a lease of the 1LT for 36 months and 36,000 miles.

From my perspective, you seem to have a pretty good offer since they're going to take care of your Fiat lease.

The $2500 rebate will almost cover your first 10 months of lease payments, so you're effectively incurring lease payments for less than 27 months.

And if you can get you're electrical Tier rate optimized, your total monthly fuel cost should significantly less than the gasoline you're buying for the Fiat.

Thanks Gambit.

It's very very tempting. I'm trying to balance the monetary gains with my real fondness for my current car...and a few features it has that the Spark EV does not.

One of the primary gripes I have with the Spark EV are the standard headlights. I've projector lamps on my Fiat and while they aren't BMW HID's, they make a HUGE difference in driving ability and safety IMO. I'm wondering if the HID modifications for the standard Spark are compatible with the Spark EV.

Also, my moonroof. Yeah..not a deal breaker but I have to say, on some days it's really nice to have it and be able to open it up and enjoy the cool evening drive.

But as far as the deal goes, it seems pretty good too so I agree.

 

[cwerdna]

As I stated earlier "it's a better idea to put no $ down. For many (most?) leases, if the car gets totaled, you won't get any of that down payment back."

Don't worry so much about the monthly payment. Look at the total cost of the lease over its lifetime and compare that.

 

[nozferatu]

So a local dealer gave me the following breakdown of a lease they would offer me for a Spark EV LT2.

You may recall I have a 2012 Fiat 500 Sport that I'm still leasing so they were willing to work out numbers to pay off my lease and give me the Spark EV.

2014 Chevy Spark EV LT2

As given to me by finance manager:

Market Value: 27820
Discount Savings: -2050
Vehicle Selling Price: 25770
Acquisition Fee: 595
Total Cap: 26365
Trade Allowance: -10500
Estimated Tradeoff: 12087.20 (Keep in mind IF I paid it off, it'd cost me 14489).
Rebate Savings: -3575
Net Cap: 24377.20

Base Payment: 238.43
Monthly Tax: 21.46
36 Month Payment @ 12K miles: 259.89

Document Prep Fee: 80
License/Title 296
Tire/Battery Fee: 8.75
Tax on Collected Items: 328.95
1st Payment: 259.89
Due on Delivery: 973.59

Rate: 0.0006
Annual Miles: 12000
Residual % on 27820: 59.959%
Residual Amount: 16680.60

MRM: 27820
Tax Rate: 9%

Thoughts? I don't think they are giving me the entire $7500 federal rebate in these numbers but I could be wrong.

 

[gatedad]

Noz:
If I am reading your numbers correctly, you are considering trading in a car and the dealer is giving you $10,500 for it? Is that being applied against the lease cost or are you pocketing the cash? If using the old car as a trade in, then realize that if the Spark EV is totalled, (and I sincerely don't want that for you), you will get nothing back from Chevy or your insurance company. Normally they pay off the lease, that's it. You have just lost over $10,000. I guess there could be exceptions to the policy but I am unaware of any. I spent more than 35 years handling auto insurance claims and many of those as a Total Loss adjuster, so I am not just tossing guesses at you. Check on that first, with your insurance company and the leasing company. As far as the $7500 Federal rebate, why would they take some for themselves and not apply the full $7500? That's a lot of money...
Lou