Spark or Leaf??

[butler]

I am considering leasing a Spark LT1 with 999 down and 199 (before tax) a month. Has anyone seen better lease terms than this?

This is for Norther CA.

Any reasons I should go for Nissan Leaf which has similar (though not exactly same) leasing options?

Thanks,
-B

 

[markcmann]

I am considering leasing a Spark LT1 with 999 down and 199 (before tax) a month. Has anyone seen better lease terms than this?

This is for Norther CA.

Any reasons I should go for Nissan Leaf which has similar (though not exactly same) leasing options?

Thanks,
-B

It really depends on your needs and your financial situation? They both have similar range but the Leaf is larger and has room for five whereas as the Spark has smaller rear storage and only room for four but the Spark EV is a hoot to drive. Lease down payment is 1K more for the Leaf as well. Being a Spark EV owner, I leased the 1LT for the terms you stated and so far I am happy with my choice.

 

[Anonymous]

Leaf is a much larger car, potentially smoother ride on highway. Should try both and decide which works best for you.
Leaf does not have a thermal management system for its battery; no cooling. Heat quickly degrades the battery. Spark does have a TMS so the battery should last longer. On a lease you might not care too much especially a two year lease. In the cool climates Leaf battery lasts ok.

 

[drivefast]

i evaluated both before i got mine. for me, the leaf was decent looking, and dull to drive. the spark is fugly, but driving it... man. i didnt feel much different in size. the spark has slightly better range on paper, but in practice i guess both are about the same. any one of the two would have been ok for me, i selected the spark for the smile it puts on my face.

 

[butler]

So, we have finalized the Spark EV as our pick. Fremont Chevy in Northern CA has offered $1600 down (including first month's payment, taxes + other fees) and about $220 (incld taxes) a month lease for 12K miles a year.

We are going to wait till the first Tuesday of September (Sep 3rd) to actually sign the dotted line and pick the car.

Questions -
1. Is it possible to get better than $1.6K down $220/mth for 12K miles a year? Any suggestions?

2. I realize it may take a little while to get the free Aerosolutions charger installed in our garage. Till then I plan to use 120v charging option. I have a daily about 40 miles commute, adding another 10-12 miles for sundry I think I will be ok on 120volts. Do I need to do anything to prepare for 120 volts charging?

Super excited about my Spark...it will be our first GM car!!

 

[markcmann]

Questions -
1. Is it possible to get better than $1.6K down $220/mth for 12K miles a year? Any suggestions?

2. I realize it may take a little while to get the free Aerosolutions charger installed in our garage. Till then I plan to use 120v charging option. I have a daily about 40 miles commute, adding another 10-12 miles for sundry I think I will be ok on 120volts. Do I need to do anything to prepare for 120 volts charging?

Super excited about my Spark...it will be our first GM car!!

1. Those terms are basically the same as mine for the Spark EV I leased back on 6/21. Although the dealership ended up paying my second payment as well (first included with the down payment) as my car was delayed at the dock for an additional ten days.

2. There is a setting on the car to adjust the charging level for the 120v charger from the default level of 8 amps to a maximum of 12 amps (assuming your outlet/breaker can handle 12 amps). This setting has to be changed each charging session as it will default back to 8 amps (this setting does not affect the 240v Level 2 charging). This is covered in the owner's manual starting on section 5-22, you can download (or view) the PDF online here:
http://www.chevrolet.com/content/da...ip/Manuals and Videos/02_pdf/2k14spark_ev.pdf

 

[fengshui]

So, we have finalized the Spark EV as our pick. Fremont Chevy in Northern CA has offered $1600 down (including first month's payment, taxes + other fees) and about $220 (incld taxes) a month lease for 12K miles a year.

We are going to wait till the first Tuesday of September (Sep 3rd) to actually sign the dotted line and pick the car.

Questions -
1. Is it possible to get better than $1.6K down $220/mth for 12K miles a year? Any suggestions?

2. I realize it may take a little while to get the free Aerosolutions charger installed in our garage. Till then I plan to use 120v charging option. I have a daily about 40 miles commute, adding another 10-12 miles for sundry I think I will be ok on 120volts. Do I need to do anything to prepare for 120 volts charging?

Super excited about my Spark...it will be our first GM car!!

1. You should be able to do better than that. The official GM lease offer is $999 at signing, $199/mo for the 1LT. After taxes in CA, it should come out to $999 at signing and $215.10/mo. I leased a 2LT last week for 1200 at signing, $199/mo. Rydell Chevy in LA is offering a $99/mo lease with a $2920 down (only 10K miles/year instead of 12K, but still): http://www.chevynorthridge.com/Newspaper-Specials I'd be hesitant to pay anymore more than the basic GM advertised $999 at signing, $199/mo for a 1LT with 12K miles/year.

2. If you're careful about charging at least 12 hours a day, 120 at 12 amps should be doable for that commute. If you wanted to be safe, you could see if there was a plug available at/near work, or a charger near your home. I live within a mile of one of the Central Coast Rabobank chargers, and I've just been driving over there just before bed when low, leaving the Spark charging there overnight and riding my bike back home.

3. You might want to contact your power company now and see if you can switch to one of their EV plans. SCE only allows you to make a plan change on your meter read day. Given my home's electric use, I don't want to do any charging at home until I'm out of the $0.37/kWh rate. It would be smart to check that out with your power company.

 

[TonyWilliams]

... I've just been driving over there just before bed when low, leaving the Spark charging there overnight and riding my bike back home.

Have you considered that a "free" public site probably didn't envision you camping out at their spot, blocking it from anybody else?

If the site is not placarded with CVC-22511 language, which allows towing for vehicles not charging, it probably should be. This camping concept is becoming a bigger and bigger issue with freeloaders looking for a way to save a few pennies on charging. It affects everybody else in the EV community, unfortunately.

The Mitsubishi headquarters had a Chevy Volt driver who camped out at their J1772 spots. What did they finally do, after repeatedly asking this person NOT to camp their? They blocked ALL the chargers for ANYBODY, including the CHAdeMO DC charger that Volts and Sparks can't even use.

I doubt this will dissuade you from continuing camping / freeloading, but knowing that you're using Rabobank (which generally all have 70 amp service for Tesla, with units owned by Tesla) helps us isolate your case, and find a corrective action.

The easy answer is to return the units to proprietary Tesla plugs so that you can't use it at all. But, that's not really the point of public charging, either. So, I might recommend a timer on the car that only allows 2 hour charges, and times out, forcing the camper to retrieve the car that isn't charging, or get towed in accordance with CVC-22511.

Or, placarded for no overnight charging at all, and just tow every car left overnight. Don't worry, we'll fix it for the benefit of all.

 

[TonyWilliams]

They both have similar range but the Leaf is larger and has room for five whereas as the Spark has smaller rear storage and only room for four but the Spark EV is a hoot to drive.

You might check out http://www.mychevysparkev.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=3444

 

[fengshui]

... I've just been driving over there just before bed when low, leaving the Spark charging there overnight and riding my bike back home.

Have you considered that a "free" public site probably didn't envision you camping out at their spot, blocking it from anybody else?

If the site is not placarded with CVC-22511 language, which allows towing for vehicles not charging, it probably should be. This camping concept is becoming a bigger and bigger issue with freeloaders looking for a way to save a few pennies on charging. It affects everybody else in the EV community, unfortunately.

The Mitsubishi headquarters had a Chevy Volt driver who camped out at their J1772 spots. What did they finally do, after repeatedly asking this person NOT to camp their? They blocked ALL the chargers for ANYBODY, including the CHAdeMO DC charger that Volts and Sparks can't even use.

I doubt this will dissuade you from continuing camping / freeloading, but knowing that you're using Rabobank (which generally all have 70 amp service for Tesla, with units owned by Tesla) helps us isolate your case, and find a corrective action.

The easy answer is to return the units to proprietary Tesla plugs so that you can't use it at all. But, that's not really the point of public charging, either. So, I might recommend a timer on the car that only allows 2 hour charges, and times out, forcing the camper to retrieve the car that isn't charging, or get towed in accordance with CVC-22511.

Or, placarded for no overnight charging at all, and just tow every car left overnight. Don't worry, we'll fix it for the benefit of all.

I have considered the etiquette of overnight charging, and I feel that when done carefully, it can be done with minimal impact to other EV drivers. The OP was asking about how to handle charging while he waits for his Level 2 charger to be installed, and that was the situation the suggestion was framed by. However, since you seem to care greatly about making sure that the chargers are available for the use of Tesla owners, here's what I've done in the past to be a courteous overnight charger while I wait for my Level 2 station to be installed:
1) I always arrive after 11pm, and try to pick up the car by 8am. Since the Spark EV can take ~6 hours to charge fully, during most of the night, the vehicle is actively charging and legally parked by CVC-22511.
2) I leave a note on the windshield that lists my phone number and asks anyone who needs to charge to call me and I'll come right over to move my EV or let them unplug me while they charge in an adjacent space.
3) Were I to ever hear from Rabobank that such charging was discouraged, I would refrain from doing so.
4) I only plan to utilize this solution locally until my Level 2 system is installed. In the future, if I ever do engage in overnight charging while travelling, I will continue to leave a note on the vehicle and remain close by to be responsive to other EV drivers who need a charge.

I'm not sure why you assumed that my overnight charging was either regular or inconsiderate, but you might try not jumping to the conclusion that it was in a response to someone looking for a charging solution for the few weeks while he waits for his Level 2 charger to be installed. I'm sorry to hear that you've had such negative experiences with public charging "campers" in the past. Hopefully as EV's grow beyond environmentalists and extreme penny-pinchers, we will see behavior like this become less and less common.

 

[TonyWilliams]

I'm not sure why you assumed that my overnight charging was either regular or inconsiderate, but you might try not jumping to the conclusion that it was in a response to someone looking for a charging solution for the few weeks while he waits for his Level 2 charger to be installed. I'm sorry to hear that you've had such negative experiences with public charging "campers" in the past. Hopefully as EV's grow beyond environmentalists and extreme penny-pinchers, we will see behavior like this become less and less common.

Thank you for a measured, reasonable response. It seems you have mitigated my specific concerns quite rationally. Honestly, I expected an entitlement response of, "it's free, so I'll take all I want without concern for anything or anybody". That's the norm when I encounter these situations. Plus, this forum seemed to have "attack mode" from my very first posts, and I fight fire with fire!!!

I disagree that freeloading will become less and less of a problem. THe percentage of freeloaders is likely to remain constant, while EVs go up, therefore I imagine the problem getting worse. It's why I absolutely do not encourage a host to offer free charging; it encourages the freeloader behavior and DISCOURAGES any other nearby host from installing an EVSE who might want to recover their expenses with fees; who would use it if a free one is across the street?

Heck, there are guys with $100,000 Tesla cars camping on spots to save a few dollars. It's not lack of money for some freeloaders.

 

[fengshui]

Thank you for a measured, reasonable response. It seems you have mitigated my specific concerns quite rationally. Honestly, I expected an entitlement response of, "it's free, so I'll take all I want without concern for anything or anybody". That's the norm when I encounter these situations. Plus, this forum seemed to have "attack mode" from my very first posts, and I fight fire with fire!!!

I disagree that freeloading will become less and less of a problem. THe percentage of freeloaders is likely to remain constant, while EVs go up, therefore I imagine the problem getting worse. It's why I absolutely do not encourage a host to offer free charging; it encourages the freeloader behavior and DISCOURAGES any other nearby host from installing an EVSE who might want to recover their expenses with fees; who would use it if a free one is across the street?

Heck, there are guys with $100,000 Tesla cars camping on spots to save a few dollars. It's not lack of money for some freeloaders.

It's not a problem. I understand the value of the free chargers, and try not to be a mooch.

Free certainly isn't the best price.

 

[butler]

Thank You all for your comments, suggestions and advice on this thread and on my questions on charging options for Leaf and Spark on the other thread.

We finally signed a 3 year lease on a Spark LT1 this past Tuesday. I was not able to get the greatest of deal but overall I am pretty satisfied with what I got. It was $1476 down (including taxes and first month's payment) and $215 per month (incld taxes).

I was also able to sign-up for the free charger+installation through EVsolutions. I already got a confirmation that my application has been approved and someone from EVSolutions is scheduled to stop by on Sep 11th.

Now I have following tasks on hand --

1. Change the PG&E Electricity Rate Plan --- Done. Will be effective from Sep 11th
2. Apply for CA State $2500 rebate (planning to do this weekend)
3. Apply for HoV sticker(need to wait for the registration to arrive)

Am I missing anything?

By the way love the car so far!!!

 

[TonyWilliams]

1. Change the PG&E Electricity Rate Plan --- Done. Will be effective from Sep 11th
2. Apply for CA State $2500 rebate (planning to do this weekend)
3. Apply for HoV sticker(need to wait for the registration to arrive)

Am I missing anything?

By the way love the car so far!!!

Welcome to EVs, and please spread the word! The only thing left might be to figure out what to do with the $2500... Maybe a small solar panel system?

 

[dutyfree]

So, we have finalized the Spark EV as our pick. Fremont Chevy in Northern CA has offered $1600 down (including first month's payment, taxes + other fees) and about $220 (incld taxes) a month lease for 12K miles a year.

We are going to wait till the first Tuesday of September (Sep 3rd) to actually sign the dotted line and pick the car.

Questions -
1. Is it possible to get better than $1.6K down $220/mth for 12K miles a year? Any suggestions?

2. I realize it may take a little while to get the free Aerosolutions charger installed in our garage. Till then I plan to use 120v charging option. I have a daily about 40 miles commute, adding another 10-12 miles for sundry I think I will be ok on 120volts. Do I need to do anything to prepare for 120 volts charging?

Super excited about my Spark...it will be our first GM car!!

1. You should be able to do better than that. The official GM lease offer is $999 at signing, $199/mo for the 1LT. After taxes in CA, it should come out to $999 at signing and $215.10/mo. I leased a 2LT last week for 1200 at signing, $199/mo. Rydell Chevy in LA is offering a $99/mo lease with a $2920 down (only 10K miles/year instead of 12K, but still): http://www.chevynorthridge.com/Newspaper-Specials I'd be hesitant to pay anymore more than the basic GM advertised $999 at signing, $199/mo for a 1LT with 12K miles/year.

2. If you're careful about charging at least 12 hours a day, 120 at 12 amps should be doable for that commute. If you wanted to be safe, you could see if there was a plug available at/near work, or a charger near your home. I live within a mile of one of the Central Coast Rabobank chargers, and I've just been driving over there just before bed when low, leaving the Spark charging there overnight and riding my bike back home.

3. You might want to contact your power company now and see if you can switch to one of their EV plans. SCE only allows you to make a plan change on your meter read day. Given my home's electric use, I don't want to do any charging at home until I'm out of the $0.37/kWh rate. It would be smart to check that out with your power company.

I have checked with Rydell you have mentioned, yes, they offer $99/month +tax for 1LT with $2990 due at signing, ,but there is additional $1645.49 needs to pay in addition to $2990 (below is what Rydell replies)
1ST PAYMENT $108.83
SALES TAX UP FRONT $598.91
FIRST YEAR FEES(DMV) $287.75
DOC & AQUISITION FEES $650.00
TOTAL OF $1645.49

So the actual out the door is $4635.49 with $99+tax per month for 10K miles/year on 1LT.

 

[fengshui]

I have checked with Rydell you have mentioned, yes, they offer $99/month +tax for 1LT with $2990 due at signing, ,but there is additional $1645.49 needs to pay in addition to $2990 (below is what Rydell replies)
1ST PAYMENT $108.83
SALES TAX UP FRONT $598.91
FIRST YEAR FEES(DMV) $287.75
DOC & AQUISITION FEES $650.00
TOTAL OF $1645.49

So the actual out the door is $4635.49 with $99+tax per month for 10K miles/year on 1LT.

By my math, you're not actually saving much money with that deal over the standard $999 out the door and $199+tax/mo option. I wasn't aware of those extra fees.

 

[butler]

Got our Aerovironment Charger installed today. 30Amps charger with a 25 ft cord and installation for a whopping ---- $0!!!

In 3 weeks and 800 miles since I got my EV, I have convinced three of my colleagues to go for EV. 2 of them went for a Leaf and a 3rd is getting Spark on next first Tuesday of the month!

 

[LH422]

"I have checked with Rydell you have mentioned, yes, they offer $99/month +tax for 1LT with $2990 due at signing, ,but there is additional $1645.49 needs to pay in addition to $2990 (below is what Rydell replies)
1ST PAYMENT $108.83
SALES TAX UP FRONT $598.91
FIRST YEAR FEES(DMV) $287.75
DOC & AQUISITION FEES $650.00
TOTAL OF $1645.49

So the actual out the door is $4635.49 with $99+tax per month for 10K miles/year on 1LT."



I'm not sure I understand why you're being charged $599 sales tax and then being charged tax on every monthly payment as well. Is this not double taxation?

 

[switters]

1. Change the PG&E Electricity Rate Plan --- Done. Will be effective from Sep 11th
2. Apply for CA State $2500 rebate (planning to do this weekend)
3. Apply for HoV sticker(need to wait for the registration to arrive)

New potential Spark owner here. What do you mean by changing the PG&E rate plan?

Also, how did you get a free charger?

 

[Pegasus]

New potential Spark owner here. What do you mean by changing the PG&E rate plan?

http://www.pge.com/en/myhome/environment/whatyoucando/electricdrivevehicles/rateoptions/index.page?

Also, how did you get a free charger?

http://evsolutions.avinc.com/products/cec/