Would you still buy EV with only 110v charging at home?

[VonSpark]

I guess I didn't do my thorough research before buying EV car in regard to charging. How long does it takes to charge a full EV like Spark or Leaf? Some how in my head is telling me 8 hours....8 hours. So, I just lease my Spark thinking its only take about 8 hours to charge an EV car and needless to say; it took a full charge (21.2kw on a Spark) about 26 hours (helllllooo!!!!). :evil:. Luckily I have enough Main Service Panels to upgrade to 240v L2 charging at my home.

My questions, who's here still have L1 charging at home for your EV?
Are you happy or are you going to upgrade to L2 charging?

If I didn't have the capability to upgrade to L2 at my home I would not have gotten the EV car.

Your thought....

Thanks

 

[cwerdna]

It depends on whether you can replenish charge quickly enough overnight/when the car is idle for your next/subsequent trips. If one has pretty short trips, then 120 volt charging is fine, provided you're ok w/the greater charging losses at lower voltages. Otherwise, one will need to find other means to charge more quickly (208/240 volt station at home/somewhere, DC FCing, driving another car instead, etc.)

I only have 120 volt charging at home but had my dealer applied for http://evsolutions.avinc.com/products/cec/eligibility_criteria, just for kicks. (Program's over now.) My saga is at http://www.myrav4ev.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=8264&sid=c8b467572a4c6958d8a8e9c2c335c8d3#p8264. Wasn't keen on paying $5K for something I don't need on a 2-year leased car, and given I'll be moving out of this house.

I do have free L2 charging at work, so I only charge at home on Fridays/weekends, if at all. I also sometimes use free public L2s and free CHADeMO DC FCs (I have a Leaf) on weekends. Even if I didn't have any charging @ work, my commute's only ~12 miles each way. I can replenish charge @ 120 volts fast enough overnight, if necessary.

However, if grew it to be much longer and round trips meant arriving home w/a nearly dead battery, then 120 volts would be insufficient. I'd likely have to stagger the trips or L2 or DC FC on the way home.

There are some Leafers who lived on only L1 charging for a long time, and I believe there still are some on MNL.

BTW, http://www.chevrolet.com/spark-ev-electric-vehicle.html says

Using the portable 120-volt charge cord will take approximately 20 hours at the 8-amp default setting.

Oh yeah, at http://www.toyota.com/content/ebrochure/2014/rav4ev_ebrochure.pdf, Toyota quotes the Rav4 EV as taking 44 hours @ 120 volts @ 12 amps for a standard charge and 52 hours for an extended charge (charge to 100%). It has a 41.8 kWh usable battery (on extended charge). There are the 60 and 85 kWh Tesla Model S...

 

[Chocula]

It would have been an issue overcoming my original perceptions of needing to charge fast. After having the Spark for a few weeks, I am realizing that I really don't need to charge all that fast, and 120 volts at 8 amps is sufficient to make sure I have a full charge by morning.

Since I need to do some electrical work to have a dedicated outlet for charging that is metered separately, I will be installing a 240 volt 30 amp EVSE as cost difference is minimal between than and a lower power unit, and I suspect this will not be the only electric car I ever have. Until then, I have a non-dedicated 120 volt outlet which I limit to 8 amps for the car. If I had to decide to buy knowing I would be limited to 120 volts, I would still buy the Spark, knowing what I do now.

For me, the biggest advantage of faster charging would be getting all of my charging done during "super off peak" which is midnight to 6 am for me. This becomes irrelevant for me once I get the separate meter installed. Other advantages include the ability to charge multiple cars or visitors in a reasonable amount of time with only one ESVE.

Bob Bruninga has a nice paper advocating level 1 charging.
http://aprs.org/EV-misinformation.html
I really can't disagree with any of his statements, though I wish my Spark had a retractable extension cord built in, or at least a better mechanism to secure the portable EVSE.

-Chocula

 

[emv]

Charging from 110 volts at the default 8 amp setting is slower than slow. At the least you need an outlet that can handle 12 amps, and remember each time to set the car's rate to 12 (using the touchscreen). Evidently somebody overloaded an outlet on an early Volt and the corporate lawyers said make the default 8.

It will work, we did it for a couple of weeks. That's the time it took for me to get and install the 240 volt unit. If at all possible, get a 240 volt unit (Bosch is still giving a deep discount). Seven hours is still a long charge, but there's never a doubt that we'll be fully charged in the morning.

 

[nozferatu]

Realistically if you don't deplete the battery every night you'll never need 7-8 hours with the 240V unit. I rarely drive more than 50 miles in a day and that will take 2 3/4 hours to charge back up with the miles/kWh I'm getting.

 

[Chocula]

Assuming that you have a lease which permits 12,000 miles per year, and that you do not exceed this, your average daily miles would be just under 33. Further assume your outlet only gives 115 volts, you get 5 miles per kWh, your charger is 85% efficient and you only charge at home; your car would take an average of 8.4 hours to charge every night at the "slower than slow" level 1 charge at 8 amps. If you drive more aggressively or have some hills so you only get 4 miles per kWh and drive 41 miles per day (15,000 annually); level 1 at 12 amps will still get you charged in an average of 8.75 hours night.

If your lifestyle has your Spark in your driveway at least 8 - 9 hours a night, level 1 charging will likely give you a full battery every morning. On the other hand, if you drive 231 miles one day, then park for the rest of the week, a Tesla might be a better choice than a faster charge. If you need to add a dedicated circuit for your car, the cost difference is minimal between 120 volts and 240 volts so you might as well install 240 volt EVSE, but I consider this a nice to have rather than a requirement.

-Chocula

 

[SteveC5088]

My Chevy Volt charged at 120 Volts for 6 months before I finally installed a L2 charging setup. And it worked just fine. Of course the Volt has the range-extender gasoline engine for backup, which we used on out-of-town trips, and once in a while when my wife commuted AND ran some errands too. Actually we never really needed the L2 charger, since the Volt's battery requires 13 kwh for a full charge, which it can get overnight as long as we bump it up to 12 amps for charging.

Doggone Chevy for forcing the 8 amp default EVERY time we charge!

Now with my Spark EV, I only have an 8 mile round-trip commute, so there is pu-lenty of juice to spare, and I've been driving it without worry for 3 1/2 months. I seldom bump the charge to 12 amps, since I'm never that low.

But I'm an EV junkie, so I've put in a second meter with PG&E, a subpanel in my garage, the L2 Voltec charger for the Volt, and am wiring the second space for the JuiceBox kit that just arrived yesterday. I'm looking forward to getting it all hooked up.

 

[jsca72]

I ran my Spark for quite a while with just our 110 charger. I don't have a long commute to work. There were a couple of days that the car wasn't fully charged the next morning if we had driven it a lot the previous day, but the car had plenty of charge for the driving needs of our day. Since we were able to get the discount on the 240 charging station, we did install one. Now the car is always ready to go its full range whenever we want. Was 240 necessary for us? No. Is it convenient? Yes.

 

[VonSpark]

But I'm an EV junkie, so I've put in a second meter with PG&E, a subpanel in my garage, the L2 Voltec charger for the Volt, and am wiring the second space for the JuiceBox kit that just arrived yesterday. I'm looking forward to getting it all hooked up.

Steve, Can you provide me with the detail and the expense for getting additional PGE meter? Most people who doesn't have solar and the best way to save money is to get a second meter. Picture plz... :roll:

It would be helpful if you can provide us the in sign. Thanks in advance.

 

[xylhim]

I'm in an odd situation where I don't have a permanent place to stay. I rotate between family houses in the high desert area of so. Cal as well as friends in Pomona (I work in both locations). Between the high desert and Pomona is the Cajon pass which is a little over 3000 ft elevation gain over about 55 miles. So I absolutely need a 240v charger in Pomona, but it isn't critical once I'm in the high desert because going back down has great range extending regen. I'd say half the time I'm doing 120v and the other half 240v.

 

[NomadMac]

I've never taken the 120v EVSE out of the trunk. Wouldn't even consider using it at home. I'm self employed so I don't have a commute and never know what the day is going to entail.

 

[SteveC5088]

But I'm an EV junkie, so I've put in a second meter with PG&E, a subpanel in my garage, the L2 Voltec charger for the Volt, and am wiring the second space for the JuiceBox kit that just arrived yesterday. I'm looking forward to getting it all hooked up.

Steve, Can you provide me with the detail and the expense for getting additional PGE meter? Most people who doesn't have solar and the best way to save money is to get a second meter. Picture plz... :roll:

It would be helpful if you can provide us the in sign. Thanks in advance.

It's expensive. My second meter along with a subpanel in my garage and wiring to the Voltec cost $3,000, and I did a lot of preliminary work myself. Part of the expense is a "pull box" aka junction box that they require where they can create a "Y" connection between the existing residential panel and the new EV meter. It would seem to me they could just splice into the existing feeder cable and run a short line to the new one, but no way!

I am justifying all of this figuring it is an infrastructure improvement to my house. For someone with enough solar to zero out their electric bill, the EV meter would be a waste.

But regardless, I've already posted a write-up and pictures: PG&E Dual Meter Installation At the end of my first post there is a link to my picture album. Another fellow replied who also has a second meter installation for you to see.