Questions and Data tracking

[Kermit]

Update: I wanted to update this post to ask a few clearer questions and share my experience with owning this car and using Torque Pro for the past week.

I tried using Enginelink and it showed a handful of useful gauges when loading the Bolt PIDS but the layout was not very configurable and the units were in Celsius so I ended up going with Torque pro. I have both so was able to compare them side by side and would point everyone towards Torque pro like many others on this site have. The Volt PIDS did not work right with Enginelink and showed numbers that were wrong and had percentages over 100%.

It appears the battery percentage is very close to the 10 lights; i.e. 6 lights is 60-69% charged. This helps me know when to charge it. I have also been calculating how much time it takes to charge with 8 amp and 12 amp so I can keep it between 50-80% charge.

Upon using Torque Pro and figuring out you can add as many decimal points as you desire I found it useful to expand out the battery capacity to 13 decimal points as that's how many the car will display. This can help follow the battery degradation more closely.

What other data points should I try to keep track of in the long term besides Mileage and Battery Capacity?

When we received our car the trip meter appeared to have never been reset so the lifetime mi/kwh is 11.7. I can not get more than upper 7 mi/kWh.
Is it possible to get it that high? With torque pro I was able to see the codes were reset about 5,800 miles ago. That's still a lot of miles to have that high of an average from my experience. Any thoughts on this?

Thanks

 

[NORTON]

....

When we received our car the trip meter appeared to have never been reset so the lifetime mi/kwh is 11.7. I can not get more than upper 7 mi/kWh.
Is it possible to get it that high? ..... Any thoughts on this?

Thanks

These mi/kWh numbers are unbelievable, at least in my experience. :roll:

"How slow can you go?", in your best deep voice.

Try 3.2 mi/kWh on a single digit temp day, heat set to a nice temp and cruising with your best buds in the left lane at 80 mph, into a headwind....

I suppose you can achieve +7 mi/kWh, but is that a race to the bottom?
A bicyclist blows you off for the first half mile, after a stop sign and then you pass them with the cruise control set to (?) 27 MPH?
How many pennies are you saving driving that slow?

You're already driving one of the least expensive cars in terms of $/mi.

My question: Have you punched it? :!:
Press the Go Pedal all the way down!!
But hold on to the wheel with both hands !!!

 

[Kermit]

I've definitely pushed it all the way down it is very fun! I usually just cruise a constant speed to work 30-40 MPH to avoid stopping at the red lights. I was just confused by how the lifetime number could be so high since no matter what I do I can't even get close.

I'll be keeping track of my battery capacity closely just to keep track of degradation over time (it's currently 16.2667 kWh with 12,700 miles) but my commute is not more than 18 miles round trip so I'm hoping it will last for a decade maybe two?

Do you guys keep track of your kWh or any other info?

 

[NORTON]

...Do you guys keep track of your kWh or any other info?

I just track the calculated kWh capacity of the pack, and not very often anymore. Not even once a month this time of year.
But I do also add outside temp and trip mi/kWh, but I don't know what I'll do with this extra data....

Even if you gather data weekly and put it into a spread sheet you'll see variations. Look at some of the graphs that people have generated with this data. Lots of ups and downs.

Your use of the car is very gentle. Good luck plotting degradation. It will be a very long term project it sounds like!

 

[scrambler]

And if you use the energy dashboard % and kwh used, don't take these numbers if you have had partial recharge during that period.
I noticed that when you do, results can be off

 

[TheLondonBroiler]

I was just confused by how the lifetime number could be so high since no matter what I do I can't even get close.

I'd bet money that the "range estimation correction," recall was done recently with some miles having been put on it afterwards, prior to your purchase. After the recall/update, your average efficiency on the dash instrument cluster screen will read 51.1 miles per kwh, which will obviously be reduced, unless you only use the Spark to drive down mountains, and then have it towed back up....

my commute is not more than 18 miles round trip so I'm hoping it will last for a decade maybe two?

If your Spark EV can't serve this purpose for a decade, I'd be EXTREMELY shocked.

Do you guys keep track of your kWh or any other info?

I screenshot my capacity when there is a displayed change. I spend at least ~1.5 hours (62 miles) roundtrip commuting M-F, and I almost always take a peak at it daily. Strange, after it always falling once or twice a week (always minimal except one noticed 0.8kwh drop), it has stopped at 14.06kwh, and has stayed there for nearly two months. I fast charge A LOT. If you glance at plugshare dcfc check ins, in Charlotte, NC you'll probably laugh (and I only check in if I plan on spending more than 10 min at the station, which isn't always).

 

[Kermit]

I'll be resetting the trip meter today to track my kWhs. I did my second charge to 100% last night (a month after the first time) and I got a GOM reading of 98 miles at 100%. I've been getting between 4.9-11kWh on my trips but mostly averaging 5-7kWh most days. I rarely jump on the interstate so my driving is usually less than 40 MPH. The battery capacity has not dropped in the first month of owning the car according to readings from Torque Pro. I have been leaving the car between 70-50% charge for my daily commute and charging by Level 1 charging at both 8 and 12 amps.

 

[MrDRMorgan]

I'll be resetting the trip meter today to track my kWhs. I did my second charge to 100% last night (a month after the first time) and I got a GOM reading of 98 miles at 100%. I've been getting between 4.9-11kWh on my trips but mostly averaging 5-7kWh most days. I rarely jump on the interstate so my driving is usually less than 40 MPH. The battery capacity has not dropped in the first month of owning the car according to readings from Torque Pro. I have been leaving the car between 70-50% charge for my daily commute and charging by Level 1 charging at both 8 and 12 amps.

It would be quite interesting to see the trend of your battery capacity measurements over the next few months as measured using TorquePro, . Both my 2014 and 2016 Spark EVs have shown a drop in battery capacity since the beginning of October of last year. The 2014 has dropped 0.6 kWh and the 2016 has dropped 0.9 kWh. Both cars only have about 17,500 miles on the ODO. My 2014 does not have the DCFC option but my 2016 does and I use DCFC a few times per month.

 

[Kermit]

[Updated with previous numbers and current numbers]
I wanted to post my data in case anyone is interested in how it is tracking. April
Previous Charge to 100% was 98 miles. This charge to 100% and the GOM is up to 108 miles.
Previous Charge to 100% kWh was 16.066676. This charge to 100% and the kWh actually went back up a bit to 16.2000 kWh (odometer is at 13,316). The average was 6.5mi/kWh this past month and I used 65.8kWh over 429 miles.

Fuel is $2.43/ gallon here now and electricity is $0.074 per kWh so I am getting about 156 miles out of what it costs for a gallon of gas right now (after assuming 75% efficiency of the electricity actually into the battery.)

219.5 MPGe 1 Gallon of Gas = 33.7kWh

The kWh capacity went up according to Torque Pro probably due to the weather?

 

[Kermit]

Data from this month's 100% charge (May.)
Previous Charge to 100% was 108 miles. This charge to 100% and the GOM is at 107 miles.
Previous Charge to 100% kWh was 16.2000. This charge to 100% and the kWh went back down to 16.03333 kWh (odometer is at 13,692). The average was 6.9 mi/kWh this past month and I used 54.3 kWh over 375.6 miles.

Fuel is $2.57/ gallon here now and electricity is $0.074 per kWh so I am getting about 179.2 miles out of what it costs for a gallon of gas right now (after assuming 75% efficiency of the electricity actually into the battery.)

232.5 MPGe 1 Gallon of Gas = 33.7kWh

 

[MrDRMorgan]

Data from this month's 100% charge (May.)
Previous Charge to 100% was 108 miles. This charge to 100% and the GOM is at 107 miles.
Previous Charge to 100% kWh was 16.2000. This charge to 100% and the kWh went back down to 16.03333 kWh (odometer is at 13,692). The average was 6.9 mi/kWh this past month and I used 54.3 kWh over 375.6 miles.

Fuel is $2.57/ gallon here now and electricity is $0.074 per kWh so I am getting about 179.2 miles out of what it costs for a gallon of gas right now (after assuming 75% efficiency of the electricity actually into the battery.)

232.5 MPGe 1 Gallon of Gas = 33.7kWh

At 13,605 miles, the battery capacity for my 2016 Spark EV was 16.5 kWh. Today, at 19,031 miles, my battery capacity is 15.5 kWh as measured using TorquePro. But..... in early April 2019 I started limiting my L1 and L2 charging on my 2014 and 2016 Spark EVs to 80-85%. For the last 1000 miles on each car, there has been no change in the measured battery capacity. I will have to collect data for the next 6 months or so to see if this change in charging significantly reduces my battery degradation rate. Prior to starting this test, the battery degradation rate for both cars was about 0.25 kWh per 1000 miles.

 

[scrambler]

The loss of capacity on our 2014 is a straight downward line that shows no sign of slowing down.

Over the last two years, it has been declining 0.15 kWh per 1,000 miles going from 15.8 kWh at 52,000 miles, down to 13.7 kWh at 66,000 miles.

If I assume a nominal usable capacity of 19 kWh that means the battery lost 27.7 %
If I assume a nominal usable capacity of 20 kWh that means the battery lost 31.5 %

Given I do about 7,000 miles a year with that car, I loose about 1.05 kWh per year.
If the nominal usable capacity is 19 kWh I should cross the 65% line at the end of the year at 71k miles
If the nominal usable capacity is 20 kWh I should cross the 65% line August next year at 75k miles

It will be interesting to see how that goes with GM

Has anyone ever been at a dealer for a battery degradation official estimate, and if so how much were you charge for it?

 

[MrDRMorgan]

The loss of capacity on our 2014 is a straight downward line that shows no sign of slowing down.

Over the last two years, it has been declining 0.15 kWh per 1,000 miles going from 15.8 kWh at 52,000 miles, down to 13.7 kWh at 66,000 miles.

If I assume a nominal usable capacity of 19 kWh that means the battery lost 27.7 %
If I assume a nominal usable capacity of 20 kWh that means the battery lost 31.5 %

Given I do about 7,000 miles a year with that car, I loose about 1.05 kWh per year.
If the nominal usable capacity is 19 kWh I should cross the 65% line at the end of the year at 71k miles
If the nominal usable capacity is 20 kWh I should cross the 65% line August next year at 75k miles

It will be interesting to see how that goes with GM

Has anyone ever been at a dealer for a battery degradation official estimate, and if so how much were you charge for it?

I wonder if dealers even have the proper equipment. Here is a link to the Idaho National Laboratory's battery capacity testing on four 2015 Spark EVs. This is data I believe and it does show battery degradation.
https://avt.inl.gov/vehicle-button/2015-chevrolet-spark

 

[TheLondonBroiler]

I wonder if dealers even have the proper equipment. Here is a link to the Idaho National Laboratory's battery capacity testing on four 2015 Spark EVs. This is data I believe and it does show battery degradation.
https://avt.inl.gov/vehicle-button/2015-chevrolet-spark

Very interesting write up by INL, thank you for sharing! I do see some discrepancies, but they appear minimal. With their efficiency, whoever was driving was ALWAYS VERY COMFORTABLE (It would have been heat to see their climate % of battery usage).

Dealers probably read the bms, just like we do with Torque Pro. I had brief access to alldata a few months back, there is a lengthy write up on HV battery replacement procedures.

 

[Kermit]

Data from this month's 100% charge (June.)
Previous Charge to 100% was 107 miles. This charge to 100% and the GOM is at 96 miles.
Previous Charge to 100% kWh was 16.03333. This charge to 100% and the kWh remained at 16.03333 kWh (odometer is at 14,008). The average was 5.1 mi/kWh this past month over 316.2 miles.
My wife drove the car for a week and it got charged to 100% most days that week and she pulled the average mi/kWh down to ~4.5mi/ kWh. I also rode my bike to work one week so the mileage was less than last month.

Fuel is $2.44/ gallon here now and electricity is $0.074 per kWh so I am getting about 126.1 miles out of what it costs for a gallon of gas right now (after assuming 75% efficiency of the electricity actually into the battery.)

171.87 MPGe (1 Gallon of Gas = 33.7kWh)

 

[SparkE]

UNLESS YOU NEED THE RANGE on any particular day, I would highly recommend *NOT* charging to 100% nightly. *In general* Li_Ion batteries do not like it when completely charged or discharged (it does vary by exact chemistry of battery and anode/cathode composition). Yes, the car's engineers made it so that the batty is nover 'fully' charged or discharged, however ...

I lost very little capacity in my first SparkEV, as I rarely charged to 100%. (the Guess-O-Meter = GOM is a horrible way to estimate, but that's all I had at the time). I started with 110 miles round town, and over 2 years it dropped to around 104-106. I try to keep the battery between 30-80%, but I'm not a fanatic about it ; I just try to make that the 'norm'. (I also try to not 'fast charge' much past 70%.) If I know I'm going to be driving a long day, I charge up. I really, really try to never drop the range below 10 miles. And I charge to 'full' once every 4-6 weeks to make sure that the batteries are balanced.

Edit: Oh, we also have a gas-mobile, so that if I am ever caught short on a particular day, we just drive gas. Not so easy for those who only have one car.

 

[Kermit]

Data from this month's 100% charge (July.)
Previous Charge to 100% was 96 miles. This charge to 100% and the GOM is at 93 miles.
Previous Charge to 100% kWh was 16.03333. This charge to 100% and the kWh went back up to 16.2999992 kWh (odometer is at 14,291). The average was 5.4 mi/kWh this past month over 282.8 miles.
Temperatures have been in the mid 90's with car reading over 100F several times. When at work the car is not plugged in and when started to commute home the battery conditioning stays on for about 4-5 miles per commute.

Fuel is $2.39/ gallon here now (many stations are higher but this is the station I would have purchased gas from so I wanted to be fair) and electricity is $0.074 per kWh so I am getting about 130.8 miles out of what it costs for a gallon of gas right now (after assuming 75% efficiency of the electricity actually into the battery.)

181.98 MPGe (1 Gallon of Gas = 33.7kWh)

I did find out that the car DOES NOT condition the battery when the car is plugged in, but not charging when set for a delayed departure.

We only fully charged the previous month to 100% so my wife didn't have to concern herself with range.

My goal with this is to not charge the car to 100% except once a month and report the stats so we can have an accurate data set to compare.

Has anyone ever experienced the battery capacity go back up? Is it because the temperatures are warmer?

 

[RSC]

....
Has anyone ever experienced the battery capacity go back up? Is it because the temperatures are warmer?

I've started tracking my battery capacity monthly. My battery capacity at the beginning of this month (7/3/2019, 14259 miles) was 15.9 kWh.

Starting last night, it seemed that I was having a charging anomaly in that charging did not seem to shut off at 100%, with lots of battery cooling going on. So I hooked up the OBDII adapter to see what might be going on. There were no fault codes, but the raw state of charge was pretty high. The capacity showed at 16.2 kWh. I took the car for a drive uphill to drain off the excess charge.

Charging seems to be back to normal, but the capacity remains at 16.2 kWh (7/13/2019, 19426 miles). GOM shows 71 miles, which is pretty normal for me. I generally start off with a downhill run and don't get much regen on a full battery. Also, I don't have LRR tires. The car is plugged in almost all the time, except when I'm out shopping or running an errand.

I appreciate and am following your posts on this subject.

 

[user 1908]

I’ve had my Spark since January, and I started monitoring with Torque Pro since March. When I first plugged in I had a capacity of 15.8 k. I have been charging at about 70/30 Level 1 / Level 2 charging. After about a month and a few times of charging to 100 percent, I saw an increase from 15.8 to 16.0 k, which has remained stable since then.

 

[Kermit]

Data from this month's 100% charge (August.)
Previous Charge to 100% was 93 miles. This charge to 100% and the GOM is at 92 miles.
Previous Charge to 100% kWh was 16.2999992. This charge to 100% and the kWh went up to 16.5666676 kWh (odometer is at 14,827). The average was 5.6 mi/kWh this past month over 536 miles.
Temperatures have been in the mid 90's with car reading over 100F several times. When at work the car is not plugged in and when started to commute home the battery conditioning stays on for about 4-5 miles per commute.

Fuel is $2.37/ gallon here now (many stations are higher but this is the station I would have purchased gas from so I wanted to be fair) and electricity is $0.074 per kWh so I am getting about 134.5 miles out of what it costs for a gallon of gas right now (after assuming 75% efficiency of the electricity actually into the battery.)

188.72 MPGe (1 Gallon of Gas = 33.7kWh)

This is the highest kWh reading the car has been at since I've owned it. The battery conditioning is kicking in every day on my drive home and the A/C is being used rather heavily.