Skullbearer
Posts: 25
Joined: Sat Mar 15, 2014 6:47 pm
Location: Sacramento, CA

Re: Performance Boost!?

Wed Apr 02, 2014 2:29 pm

Oberon wrote:
Skullbearer wrote:We have to be careful with speculation on the A123 cells, they don't publish all their options and have both 'energy' and 'power' cells. The cells that are commonly in this form factor pack are 'energy' cells and have a spec 10s peak discharge rate of only 10C, and a 30s of 5C.
Given that the 105kW / 369 volts is 285 A, with a 60 Ah pack that would be 4.75 C. I doubt that the 105kW is intended to be only a 30s rating, so it seems likely these are not the 5C cells.
I've seen my display show spikes of just over 130kW when I have full HVAC with defrost going, full throttle. It definitely ramps down the peak power allowed on a short countdown, but since I can't drive straight up a wall for a mile, I don't know if its a 10s ramp or longer, I hit top speed at around that time.

To my knowledge there is no A123 pouch cell that is more of an 'energy' cell than the 5C/10C units. HOWEVER when I was trying to use them for Formula Hybrid in college, the 5C/10C rating was what they provided on internal documents to distributors... their official 'recommended' usage was only 3C/6C, which more closely matches what we actually see on our Sparks.

130kW / 350V is ~372A, or 6.2C

The cells should definitely be fine for up to 10C in <10s bursts, but repeated bursts at that WILL heat the battery up quite a bit. My speculation is that GM didn't want to do that... even with hard regen stops and hard accelerations repeated, I can't get my battery hot enough in 70F ambient to get anything on the 'Battery Conditioning' usage in my Energy tab. Most definitely not being pushed, the battery is acting as a sealed unit for me (unless my Spark is not reporting correctly).


We could convert the rear wheels to be driven. I haven't put my Spark up on the lift yet, anyone have pictures of the available space in the rear, by the battery? Hub motors are always an option.
Development Engineer
EVs, PHEVs, CVTs, ECVTs (Don't know it, look it up!)

High Voltage and Low Voltage;
They both bite, but only one is a funny story. Don't mess with the orange.

buickanddeere
Posts: 146
Joined: Wed Apr 17, 2013 2:27 pm
Location: East coast of Lake Huron

Re: Performance Boost!?

Fri Apr 18, 2014 12:04 pm

Fastest and most efficient way to improve the 1/4 mile times . Is to reduce the 0-30Mph time. As the Spark EV will smoke the factory front tires. Improving traction with a sticky set of tires is the 1st order of business.
As for chassis reaction, FWD is AZZ backwards . The better the front wheels grip the more the chassis lifts weight off the front wheels and onto the back wheels.
I suppose a set of airbags to hoist the rear up before launching may reduce weight transfer.
The rear wheel motors is a interesting concept. Don't know where a set of those could be located.

nozferatu
Posts: 575
Joined: Sat Feb 01, 2014 4:47 pm

Re: Performance Boost!?

Fri Apr 18, 2014 5:37 pm

It'd actually be nice to build a mass inventory of this car.

Clearly it would take someone who has and is willing to take the car apart in terms of modifications, alterations, etc. I'm not sure where the weight loss could be as I'm sure it's already pretty lean. But that would definitely improve mid-range acceleration but traction would still be the limiting factor out of the hole.

A better/firmer suspension would improve traction too. Better rebound is needed on our cars badly IMO.

ronbot

Re: Performance Boost!?

Wed May 30, 2018 6:41 pm

Just reached the end of this thread... sadly.

No updates from anyone?

I was actually getting a little excited... because there was some real technical knowledge being displayed in the last couple of pages :-)
(speaking from my own EE perspective)

Starting my preliminary shopping for my Spark EV... but being in the middle of the USA, it's most likely going to mean buying sight-unseen, and having it shipped.

Still trying to decide if I want the first year with 400 lb-ft torque with 3.17:1 final drive ratio, or the later model with 327 lb-ft and 3.87:1 final drive. The later model seems to give the advantage of possibly restoring the 400 lb-ft of motor torque, resulting in increased low-speed performance... but it also uses the LG Chem batteries... which aren't capable of the peak power that the A123 cells are. At least with the first year, I could (maybe/probably) buy the 3.87:1 gear set and swap that out... best of both worlds... if the controller code doesn't puke. (seems odd to talk about swapping differential gears in this EV like I used to talk about in my 1966 muscle car)

I was excited to see Chevy's 2013 SEMA Tech Performance version with 450 lb-ft of torque... so clearly there's enough headroom to do that... and still more.
https://www.autoblog.com/2013/11/06/che ... sema-2013/

It'd sure be nice if those wheels were available for purchase... but apparently they were custom billet built.
It'd also be nice to talk to the engineers responsible for such mayhem! ;-)

BTW... was the HVDC "combo" charger connector a common option? Did it ever become standard in the last years?

ajeandy

Re: Performance Boost!?

Mon Jun 18, 2018 5:07 am

ronbot wrote:Just reached the end of this thread... sadly.

No updates from anyone?

I was actually getting a little excited... because there was some real technical knowledge being displayed in the last couple of pages :-)
(speaking from my own EE perspective)

Starting my preliminary shopping for my Spark EV... but being in the middle of the USA, it's most likely going to mean buying sight-unseen, and having it shipped.

Still trying to decide if I want the first year with 400 lb-ft torque with 3.17:1 final drive ratio, or the later model with 327 lb-ft and 3.87:1 final drive. The later model seems to give the advantage of possibly restoring the 400 lb-ft of motor torque, resulting in increased low-speed performance... but it also uses the LG Chem batteries... which aren't capable of the peak power that the A123 cells are. At least with the first year, I could (maybe/probably) buy the 3.87:1 gear set and swap that out... best of both worlds... if the controller code doesn't puke. (seems odd to talk about swapping differential gears in this EV like I used to talk about in my 1966 muscle car)

I was excited to see Chevy's 2013 SEMA Tech Performance version with 450 lb-ft of torque... so clearly there's enough headroom to do that... and still more.
https://www.autoblog.com/2013/11/06/che ... sema-2013/

It'd sure be nice if those wheels were available for purchase... but apparently they were custom billet built.
It'd also be nice to talk to the engineers responsible for such mayhem! ;-)

BTW... was the HVDC "combo" charger connector a common option? Did it ever become standard in the last years?

I'm sure it's possible...though I don't think anyone on here has any experience with car tuning software. I don't either. There are open source variants of car tuning software (free) but I have never used them. Also the car was only sold in CA and OR so that kind of limits the availability to tuners out there as well.

SVTWRC
Posts: 20
Joined: Sun Jan 13, 2019 3:57 am

Re: Performance Boost!?

Sun Jan 13, 2019 4:25 am

Hello everyone , I’m a 17 year automotive forum user and have a Youtube channel SVTWRC. Took delivery from Carvana for a 2016 LT1 Spark without fast charge. Video is on my page with some info on how Carvana works. I will be exploring all the options for upgrading the tires , suspension, exterior, interior and try to give some insight on performance versus range and efficiency in the most scientific way possible without having a wind tunnel and telemetry. There is a post on here about a performance stage 1 boost without any info how or where anyone else can duplicate it. The whole reason these forums exist is to help and share knowledge . I will be emailing and talking to Chevy about the possible tuning upgrades ,as it may be similar for the Volt and Bolt to utilize a performance package like the Tech Performance package. The upgrades would be a great addition to and boost the image of the EV car as one you can modify . With the Spark EV being made available to purchase on Carvana , there should be a revival of these threads as people take delivery and they are almost ALL SOLD OUT of Spark EV . At the start of January 2019 there are 42 Spark EV on Carvana and only 3 of them are not sold.

NORTON
Posts: 1338
Joined: Fri May 01, 2015 5:52 am
Location: KC,MO

Re: Performance Boost!?

Sun Jan 13, 2019 5:51 am

SVTWRC ,
Welcome to this little forum!
And congrats on your purchase of a Spark EV! Very good call !! :D

Too bad you went with a Non-DCFC version. This limits the car to local duty.
You could theoretically take longer trips, (with patience, if need be), and only then where the DCFC network is present. But the CCS network is growing daily !!

That is awesome that your 1st car is an EV ! Enter the future, young man!

And as a young man your first thing is "More Power". 8-)
Only, as you know, it's not like upping the boost and adding a bigger intercooler to a turbo engine.
You have a permanent magnet 3 phase motor and its matching controller. Do you overdrive these devices 110% or 150% from what they are designed to handle?
Can you overdrive them at 200% for maybe 10 sec before you let the smoke out, or overheating the magnets?
If you can, and you get monster sticky tires up front and get this power to the road, are the little gears and bearings within the drive unit up to this?
Sorry to rain on this parade.... :(

Did you see the thread where someone is trying to use a 10kW Tesla charging module to charge the Spark battery pack?
Only it sounds like they're putting the current into the pack without any regard for the existing Thermal Management System and Battery Management System. Study BMS and TMS. Some EV's on the market have a lame excuse for TMS.

That is a line of study that will have a pay off , if it can be made to work properly. I know I'd consider a buying kit!
However, you can't put 10kW into a J1772 designed for 3.3kW. All the connecting AC wires to and the DC wires from the On Board Charger are rated for 3.3kW.
I would think it would be easier to get this going from the CCS port,, which yours doesn't have,,,, :(

Enjoy driving the future NOW! :!:

I get a constant stream of jokes about my EV. I like to tell them how much I spend on energy (ZERO, 9 months a year) and how much time I spend on oil changes and other maintenance during my +60k miles (ZERO). I tell them how much I hate popping the hood to fill the windshield washer... :lol:
And then my zinger is, "Do you think your little kids are going be driving Gassers in the future?"
Used '14 2LT w/ DCFC. +85k miles.
Mostly free charging! Only one LONG visit to the shop....
GM needs Modern Troubleshooting tools for Modern EV's.
3 step Trouble Tree, 1st try car died again, 2nd try / cost $800. 3rd try fixed the problem.

JPL
Posts: 121
Joined: Sun Jul 09, 2017 11:42 pm
Location: Vancouver, BC

Re: Performance Boost!?

Sun Jan 13, 2019 1:07 pm

Subscribed!

Where did you got the body stickers?

I highly recommend to return that spark and get a 2014 instead. Or perhaps get the motor from a wreaked one?

If my numbers are right you could get:

1556 ft-lb with
the 2014 Spark EV stock
402 ft-lb motor
+
2015 or 2016 Spark EV stock
3.87 final gear reduction

2014 Spark EV stock
402 ft-lb motor
(545.0388Nm)
3.17 gear reduction
1274.34 ft-lb @wheels
(1719.177Nm)

It's 5500-rpm !
5500 rpm/3.18 = 1729 rpm at wheel

2015 & 2016 Spark EV stock
327 ft-lb motor
(443.3525Nm)
3.87 gear reduction
1266 ft-lb @wheels
(1716.466Nm)
185/55R15 = 23.7x7.3R15

2014 Spark EV mod
402 ft-lb motor
3.87 gear reduction
1555.74 ft-lb @wheels
(2098.806Nm)
5500 rpm / 3.87 = 1421 rpm at wheel

Now hypothetically:

Spark EV mod
400 ft-lb motor from 2014 Spark EV
3.87 gear reduction from a 2015 or 2016 Spark EV
1555.74 ft-lb @wheels
(2098.806Nm)
5500 rpm / 3.87 = 1421 rpm at wheel ✔️
2016 Spark EV w/CCS
Front Speakers: Alpine 4" (SPS410)
Back Speakers: Alpine 5X7" (SPS517) w 3D print adapters

17 " Rims
F: Michelin Pilot Sport A/S3 205/40R17
B: Hankook 205/45R17

2020 Kia E-Soul

2000 Honda Insight MT

SVTWRC
Posts: 20
Joined: Sun Jan 13, 2019 3:57 am

Re: Performance Boost!?

Thu Jan 24, 2019 3:11 am

Thanks Norton and JPL , some confusion about my post I want to clear up. I’m 42 years old and have 17+years on automotive forums. Been racing auto cross , RallyX , and time trials . My current ICE cars are 04 Subaru STi modified for insane street use and light track use, 03 WRX wagon and my wife’s 2018 Wrangler JL . Generally maintain all my vehicles except engine swaps , no hoist for motors. The Spark is my super fun , no worries get in and go as my Subaru are treated like aircraft and usually pre and post drive looked after. Thing I LOVE about this Spark are the single speed drive unit and rediculous throttle response. Going to research all the data I can and put some Youtube videos out answering to the best of my ability things like charging and range. Also a full review of the Spark EV . JPL I got those side decals here https://goo.gl/images/n328bs . My hope of aftermarket tuning may become reality as the Chevy Bolt has some of the Sparks tech. If someone tunes a Bolt the Spark should not be hard to tweak. I’m thinking of making the sport button a more aggressive map, yes it will draw more from the high voltage but you can put it in normal mode when not needed. For the next few years the Spark I will not be looking into swapping the motors from a 2014 but that info seems legit about the 400ftlbs with the 2016 final drive at 3.8.

NORTON
Posts: 1338
Joined: Fri May 01, 2015 5:52 am
Location: KC,MO

Re: Performance Boost!?

Thu Jan 24, 2019 4:37 am

SVTWRC wrote:
Thu Jan 24, 2019 3:11 am
..... My hope of aftermarket tuning may become reality as the Chevy Bolt has some of the Sparks tech. If someone tunes a Bolt the Spark should not be hard to tweak.
I’m thinking of making the sport button a more aggressive map, yes it will draw more from the high voltage but you can put it in normal mode when not needed. ...
Again, how much do you think the Drive Unit and the Power controller can be overdriven, and for how long?
It's just electronics, after all. I don't know if 'Tuning' applies to an EV....
And then, Traction Control is going to limit power, just as it does stock. Tire smoke is what you get if you can defeat TC.

Sport Mode does not 'draw more' power. Your foot is still in control of the power. That mode just changes the Go Pedal mapping curve.
Full Go Pedal = Max Power,,, regardless of what position that silly gimmicky switch is in.
Plus it goes back to normal mapping at a certain speed. Or is that just Stability Control that goes back to normal? I forget....
Used '14 2LT w/ DCFC. +85k miles.
Mostly free charging! Only one LONG visit to the shop....
GM needs Modern Troubleshooting tools for Modern EV's.
3 step Trouble Tree, 1st try car died again, 2nd try / cost $800. 3rd try fixed the problem.

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