FutureFolly
Posts: 141
Joined: Thu Feb 27, 2014 8:22 pm

Sonic EV to cannibalize Spark EV?

Sat Oct 18, 2014 11:31 am

The latest leaks about the 2017 Sonic EV indicate that it will replace the Spark EV, not complement it as the gasoline versions do. The Sonic EV will be based on the new platform, which will help it stay competitive with the Leaf. The two big unknowns that I'm most interested are weight and price. The Spark EV is competitive because of its excellent range and its price. These points can't be compromised if the car will ever work nationally. The combination of the low-gear ratio motor and the relatively low weight car help it beat EPA numbers more easily than most EVs. A heavier car will require more gearing and more power to accelerate. This will either require more batteries or less range.

The size increase will broaden its appeal on the national level though. Increased price is only a major resistance factor to growth if customers don't see increased value. The new platform may be high enough quality to deserve a higher price. The Sonic EV will most likely offer multiple battery packs to justify a low entry price and an increased range model, just like the next Nissan Leaf. The low cost one will be the Spark EV spiritual replacement, but I hope it doesn't lose its character.

http://www.greencarreports.com/news/109 ... rickle-out
Last edited by FutureFolly on Sun Nov 09, 2014 11:42 am, edited 1 time in total.

buickanddeere
Posts: 146
Joined: Wed Apr 17, 2013 2:27 pm
Location: East coast of Lake Huron

Re: Sonic EV to cannibalize Spark EV?

Sat Oct 18, 2014 9:51 pm

Here are the size differences between the gasser Sonic and gasser Spark. They are both built on the Gamma II platform however the Sonic is considerably wider and longer.
Current and announced vehicles based on Gamma II (GSV) platform:
2010 Chevrolet Spark, Holden Barina Spark
2010 next generation Chevrolet Sail[5]
2011 Chevrolet Aveo/Sonic, Holden Barina
2011 Chevrolet Cobalt
2012 Opel/Vauxhall Mokka, Buick Encore
2012 Chevrolet Spin
2013 Chevrolet Onix
2013 Chevrolet Prisma mkII
2013 Chevrolet/Holden Trax[
2013 Buick Encore

Exterior Dimensions Sonic sedan
Wheelbase (mm / in.) 2525 / 99.4
Overall length (mm / in.) 4397 / 173.1
Overall width (mm / in.) 1735 / 68.3
Overall height (mm / in.) 1517 / 59.7
Track (mm / in.) front: 1509 / 59.4
rear: 1509 / 59.4
Curb weight, estimated (kg / lb.)- with manual transmission 1237 / 2727 (LS)
1245 / 2745 (LT)
1273 / 2807 (LTZ)
Interior Dimensions
Headroom (mm / in.) front: 982 / 38.7
rear: 961 / 37.8
Legroom (mm / in.) front: 1062 / 41.8
rear: 881 / 34.7
Shoulder room (mm / in.) front: 1358 / 53.5
rear: 1347 / 53.0
Hip room (mm / in.) front: 1306 / 51.4
rear: 1311 / 51.6
Seating capacity (front / rear): 2 / 3
Passenger volume (L / cu.ft.): 2556 / 90.3
Cargo volume (L / cu. ft.): 422 / 14.9
Trailer towing maximum: (kg / lb.) Towing not recommended
Fuel tank: (L / imp. gal.) 46 / 10.1

Vs. the Spark

Exterior Dimensions 5-door
Wheelbase (mm / in.) 2375 / 93.5
Overall length (mm / in.) 3675 / 144.7
Overall width (mm / in.) 1598 / 62.9
Overall height (mm / in.) 1549 / 61.0
Track (mm / in.) front: 1415 / 55.7
rear: 1410 / 55.5
Curb weight, estimated (kg / lb.) 1029 / 2269 (LS manual)
1074 / 2368 (LS automatic)
Headroom (mm / in.) front: 1001 / 39.4
rear: 947 / 37.3
Legroom (mm / in.) front: 1067 / 42.0
rear: 894 / 35.2
Shoulder room (mm / in.) front: 1288 / 50.7
rear: 1262 / 49.7
Hip room (mm / in.) front: 1219 / 48.0
rear: 1206 / 47.5
Seating capacity (front / rear): 2 / 2
Passenger volume (L / cu.ft.): 2444 / 86.3
Cargo volume (L / cu. ft.): 322.8 / 11.4 (rear seat up)
883.6 / 31.2 (rear seat folded)
Trailer towing maximum: (kg / lb.) Towing not recommended
Fuel tank: (L / imp. gal.) 34.8 / 9.2

sspeedracer
Posts: 13
Joined: Sat Apr 19, 2014 11:26 am

Re: Sonic EV to cannibalize Spark EV?

Wed Oct 22, 2014 1:56 pm

The EV power train was designed for a larger car than the Spark. The EV was assigned to the Spark at the last minute.

Test mules for EV development were similar to the Sonic.

I do not know why Chevy switched last minute, but my assumption is that less money is lost selling a spark ev than a sonic ev, or it the spark ev was a less a threat to other GM ICE models.

FutureFolly
Posts: 141
Joined: Thu Feb 27, 2014 8:22 pm

Re: Sonic EV to cannibalize Spark EV?

Sat Oct 25, 2014 8:18 pm

The major benefits of the Spark over the Sonic was definitely cost, but also weight. The next-generation Sonic might see a significant weight drop, but with current technology a Sonic EV might weigh as much as the Nissan Leaf with less space and probably less range.

The better range and lower price probably sold more Spark EVs than the smaller size and cheaper materials cost GM. The Spark EV will probably see a major price drop soon, just to stay viable against the most recent round of EV price cuts. It's a little hard to sell someone on the Spark over the better equipped competition unless they need the range or they need to save as much as possible. I had hopes for national Spark or Sonic EV sales, but even higher losses on each unit make that less likely. To be fair, lower oil prices might also be affecting GM's strategy. I've always said having the excellent technology is more important than funding loses on vehicles.

The powertrain was definitely engineered for a much larger vehicle though. I could see this motor powering anything up to the size of a Tahoe without a problem. The high torque and compact size make it essentially applicable to any axle of any platform GM has. The architecture could very well become GM's EV equivalent to their Chevy-Small Block.

Will anyone miss the Spark EV over the Sonic EV if it's a one-generation vehicle?

Pegasus
Posts: 126
Joined: Fri Jul 12, 2013 12:59 am
Location: Las Vegas, NV

Re: Sonic EV to cannibalize Spark EV?

Tue Oct 28, 2014 9:46 am

FutureFolly wrote:Will anyone miss the Spark EV over the Sonic EV if it's a one-generation vehicle?
I probably will. My wife and I both really enjoy driving small cars (and seeing how much stuff we can still fit in one!) We've been able to park our Spark EV in places we could never do in a larger car.

iletric
Posts: 163
Joined: Mon Aug 05, 2013 8:43 pm

Re: Sonic EV to cannibalize Spark EV?

Thu Oct 30, 2014 8:33 pm

Isn't Sonic designated to be the 200-mile competitor to Tesla Model III?
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TonyWilliams
Posts: 572
Joined: Sun Apr 14, 2013 4:23 pm

Re: Sonic EV to cannibalize Spark EV?

Thu Oct 30, 2014 10:34 pm

iletric wrote:Isn't Sonic designated to be the 200-mile competitor to Tesla Model III?
GM may portray that, much like BMW alluded to their i3 being competition for Tesla. Neither are, or will be.

Tesla will make a Model Y, that should be closer in "stature" to a Sonic EV. Sonic EV should compete with a Nissan LEAF with 150 mile range option and a future Kia Soul EV (I presume they will up their game to 150 miles).
Contrary to many folks here, I do NOT own a LEAF.

buickanddeere
Posts: 146
Joined: Wed Apr 17, 2013 2:27 pm
Location: East coast of Lake Huron

Re: Sonic EV to cannibalize Spark EV?

Fri Oct 31, 2014 8:45 am

I'm hesitant to drive a small vehicle in a snow storm on roads with full sized cars, pickup trucks, buses and semi's.

Pegasus
Posts: 126
Joined: Fri Jul 12, 2013 12:59 am
Location: Las Vegas, NV

Re: Sonic EV to cannibalize Spark EV?

Tue Nov 04, 2014 2:31 pm

buickanddeere wrote:I'm hesitant to drive a small vehicle in a snow storm on roads with full sized cars, pickup trucks, buses and semi's.
It's all in the tires. If you've got a good set of winter tires on, you'll be fine. I always have been.

FutureFolly
Posts: 141
Joined: Thu Feb 27, 2014 8:22 pm

Re: Sonic EV to cannibalize Spark EV?

Mon Nov 24, 2014 1:38 pm

Does anyone here actually doubt the Spark EV is going to be discontinued in 2016?

Everyone seemed to read this as a Sonic EV discussion, but I intended it to be about the end of the Spark EV and what that means for GMs EV program.

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