CHAdeMO to CCS Adapter Challenge

I keep hearing about VW and BMW working to build the CCS charging network up and down both coasts, but not seeing much progress. In fact, it has been suggested in various articles that VW could mitigate their current dirty diesel image problem by accelerating the roll-out of the CCS network and selling more EV's. In the comments section of one such article, someone suggested that VW could effectively accomplish the same thing as building the CCS network by selling a CHAdeMO to CCS Adapter. I thought that was a great idea and have been wishing for such a device since I bought my Spark EV. In fact, I was determined to create the thing myself, despite my lack of technical ability in this regard. So much so that I contacted emotorwerks about the idea and received the following response:

We do not have ETA for this version of our chargers yet. It would be awesome if someone like you would work on the interface. It is not a trivial task,
however.

In order to implement one, you need 3 things:
1. Get protocol specs from J1772 spec document you can obtain from SAE.
2. Implement physical layer of the protocol (based on TCP/IP over powerline). Luckily, you can find some existing implementations in products like
http://www.i2se.com/wiki/doku.php?id=productslc_stamp_mini
3. Implement the logical layer of the protocol (the actual charging data / commands etc). Luckily, there are some existing implementation in products like
http://www.i2se.com/wiki/lib/exe/fetch.php?media=products:evacharge_se:evacharge_se_datasheet_r3.pdf
4. Connect the complete implementation to the power stage. Here's how we do it with our CHAdeMO controller:
https://docs.google.com/a/emotorwerks.com/document/d/16dKWo35OwWUbYmfKx3LBR67aY7ZZ0dnQfpFK-zqMzJ0/edit
5. Connect the complete implementation to the power DC Combo cable & plug assembly. I am not aware of the source for this yet but I am sure one
could find something on Alibaba.com.

So if someone could source #1, 2, 3, and 5, and figure out the connection in #4, then one could have a SAE combo charger. I estimate that this is a ~4
person-week project for someone who knows what he/she is doing.

In spite of how simple the above response makes it seem, it was more difficult than I could handle. Plus, it seemed cost prohibitive, given the price of the CCS plug itself. At the time (about a year ago), buying the plug was a several hundred dollar proposition. In other forums and posts it was thought that the overall cost of the adapter could exceed $1,000. The available market for such a device seemed rather small, as the Spark EV was the only car in production to come equipped with a CCS receptacle at the time.

So here is what I'm wondering. Does anyone on this forum have the ability, time and motivation to work together to pull off the development and production of a $200 CHAdeMO to CCS adapter? I expect many people's first response will be to say it is not possible. I'd like to hear about how it can be done. What would it take? Anybody willing to go down this road with me to make it happen? I can't do much in the way of technical expertise, but I do have other talents and resources at my disposal.

Why $200 target? The Tesla adapter costs drastically more than that and does similar functions with similar hardware. Connectors bought in large volumes would cost that much alone, and at low quantities they'll double or triple that.

I think there's value in a Chademo to CCS adapter, but if you're unwilling to commit unless a $200 price is expected, then it seems like a non-starter. I'm not sure if that's a requirement for you or if you're just throwing a number out there, but $500+ seems like a much more reasonable target for a first-to-market product.

Bryce

You would also want to consider UL/CSA certification. And product liability insurance.

$200 was just a number I threw out there. Might as well aim high (or low, in this case). Tesla sells their CHAdeMO adapter for $450. Maybe that's a better target. I'd pay $450 for the added flexibility.

Wish I could help, but I'd definitely pay $500 - $700 for such a product.

I would pay at least $500 for such a product. There dozens of EVGO CHAdeMO stations between Dallas/Fort Worth/Denton and no CSS chargers to speak of. I believe there is only one CCS in all of Texas so far! (Austin, naturally).

Of course, since there was no infrastructure and I was limited to purchasing a used Spark EV, I have a Spark with no fast charge available. But we are intending to get a Chevy Bolt next year, and would love to have access to both CHAdeMO and CCS charging stations. We have family in southern Fort Worth and have to stop for an hour or two to "top off" the battery at a Level2 charger when visiting. Not a huge deal since it's only a few times a year, but fast charge would be nice.

I'd be willing to pay several hundred dollars as well for an adapter. We've got good ChaDeMo coverage in these parts, not much DCFC outside of the metro area.

sniff, sniff....

Do I smell a product waiting for a ready market????

Now if someone knew if the DCFC protocols are compatible...

Tesla figured out how to make their adapter.

I remember reading that the the Tesla Supercharger and CCS protocols were either similar or identical. Wondering if you couldn't just take Tesla's CHAdeMO adapter and replace the other end with a CCS plug and be in business.

SparkMoore said:

I remember reading that the the Tesla Supercharger and CCS protocols were either similar or identical. Wondering if you couldn't just take Tesla's CHAdeMO adapter and replace the other end with a CCS plug and be in business.

Click to expand...

I sure wouldn't want to be the first to try that! Talk about your $27,000 leap of faith.

Someone has allegedly already done it:

http://insideevs.com/bmw-i3-charging-tesla-hpwc-video/

ReddyKilowatt said:

Someone has allegedly already done it:

http://insideevs.com/bmw-i3-charging-tesla-hpwc-video/

Click to expand...

That's a step it looks like! But it doesn't work on the Superchargers. Even if there were an adapter for the superchargers to CCS, having the CHAdeMO would be far more useful for regional travel.

Superchargers could be fantastic for long distance travel if Tesla ever decided to market their supercharge network to non-tesla drivers and threw in a compatible Adapter with the purchase.

Tesla's AC charger protocol is exactly the same as J1772 that ALL other EVs use, requiring only a mechanical adapter with no electronic adaptation. That's why you can cut the end of a Tesla portable EVSE (aka UMC) and determinate the wires onto a J1772 head and make a 10 kW portable EVSE that is J1772 compatible for very little money. This is also how this BMW is using the AC Tesla EVSE.

DC charging is an entirely different story. Tesla's DC charger is not a simple mechanical adaptation of an SAE or Chademo DC charger, which is why they have an expensive and clunky adapter for Chademo and no adapter for SAE yet. So far I haven't seen anybody determine the Tesla protocol, but it's a moot point if you're trying to adapt Chademo to CCS.

Bryce

Nashco said:

Tesla's AC charger protocol is exactly the same as J1772 that ALL other EVs use, requiring only a mechanical adapter with no electronic adaptation. That's why you can cut the end of a Tesla portable EVSE (aka UMC) and determinate the wires onto a J1772 head and make a 10 kW portable EVSE that is J1772 compatible for very little money.

Click to expand...

Which is exactly what Jesla is.

No need for paying top dollar to a middle man. You can buy a Dostar connector, a used UMC, and have the two assembled here for much less money:

http://www.tucsonev.com

The DC adapter is much more challenging, and this is where a supplier willing to do design work and tool investment could add value.

Bryce