oilerlord
Posts: 50
Joined: Fri Dec 18, 2015 9:55 am

Buying a Used Spark EV - Do I really need fast charging?

Thu Mar 10, 2016 10:07 pm

I'm buying a Spark EV used because as a Canadian resident (from Alberta), I'm not eligible for tax credits. I know that the fast charging is a $750 option but most of the 2014 models on dealer lots don't have it. If I lived in California, with the ever growing fleet of L3 charging stations, then DCFC would certainly be a benefit. In reality, I would be doing 99% of charging from my rooftop solar on 220v/L2. The other fact is that I don't have L3 within 500 miles of my home so having the DCFC option is likely worthless to me because I may never use it.

I also assume that a Spark EV will depreciate to near zero just because that's the nature of EV's. We also have a very limited resale market for EV's as I know of only two other Spark EV's in Edmonton, and I've doubt there are more than 10 Chevy Volts on the road in our province. Tesla built a supercharger, but I doubt that we'll see SAE Combo L3 charging station in our province for at least 5 years. By that time, I'd probably be looking at buying a different EV anyway.

The deals to be had are on cars without the fast charging option. There are several used but nearly new 2014 Spark EV's going for ~$12,000. Perhaps that's my best choice. I thought I'd share my ramblings...and no doubt I'm overthinking this. Thanks in advance for your opinions.

BTW: I found out that California dealerships are required to charge state tax unless they ship the car out of state. For that reason, driving it home doesn't save me any money so I would just ship the car all the way to Edmonton.

cwerdna
Posts: 478
Joined: Sun Nov 03, 2013 12:35 am
Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Re: Buying a Used Spark EV - Do I really need fast charging?

Thu Mar 10, 2016 10:13 pm

FWIW, I live in California and at the time, I bought a used '13 Leaf in July 2015 to replace my '13 Leaf (which did have CHAdeMO) nearing end of lease, I didn't feel it was worth paying extra for a CHAdeMO inlet. (There are WAY more CHAdeMO DC FCs than SAE Combo.)

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.p ... 74#p451274 is an example of post as to why, for me.

NORTON
Posts: 1278
Joined: Fri May 01, 2015 5:52 am
Location: KC,MO

Re: Buying a Used Spark EV - Do I really need fast charging?

Fri Mar 11, 2016 4:43 am

oilerlord wrote:I'm buying a Spark EV used ..... In reality, I would be doing 99% of charging from my rooftop solar on 220v/L2. The other fact is that I don't have L3 within 500 miles of my home ...
Tesla built a supercharger, but I doubt that we'll see SAE Combo L3 charging station in our province for at least 5 years. ....
For that reason, driving it home doesn't save me any money so I would just ship the car all the way to Edmonton.
Aww, no 82 mile EPA rated range EV Road Trip postings..... :cry:

But I totally see your point. Someone needs to buy the non-DCFC Spark EV's. And you, with your Solar setup, would be a model EV owner !! :)

Negotiate with the sellers about "how disappointed you are that the car doesn't have this very important option". "It will be very hard to sell". You would be willing to "buy it for $1000 less".
Good Luck ! Go get those dogs !

Although,, I can see the case for Tesla to come around and start selling access to the Superchargers to other EV's.
Currently Tesla's model is the Superchargers bring NO MONEY, forever. Selling access would at least allow them to start making money off the supercharger network.
Only time will tell if there will a Tesla-to-SAE Combo adapter cord and a method for Tesla to sell the electrons,, (for a change) !
Tesla currently sells a Chademo-to-Tesla adapter cord.
Used '14 2LT w/ DCFC. +78 K miles.
Mostly free charging! Only one LONG visit to the shop....
GM needs Modern Troubleshooting tools for Modern EV's.
3 step Trouble Tree, 1st try car died again, 2nd try not covered / cost $800. 3rd try fixed the problem.

oilerlord
Posts: 50
Joined: Fri Dec 18, 2015 9:55 am

Re: Buying a Used Spark EV - Do I really need fast charging?

Fri Mar 11, 2016 7:40 am

NORTON wrote:
Aww, no 82 mile EPA rated range EV Road Trip postings..... :cry:

But I totally see your point. Someone needs to buy the non-DCFC Spark EV's. And you, with your Solar setup, would be a model EV owner !! :)

Negotiate with the sellers about "how disappointed you are that the car doesn't have this very important option". "It will be very hard to sell". You would be willing to "buy it for $1000 less".
Good Luck ! Go get those dogs !

Although,, I can see the case for Tesla to come around and start selling access to the Superchargers to other EV's.
Currently Tesla's model is the Superchargers bring NO MONEY, forever. Selling access would at least allow them to start making money off the supercharger network.
Only time will tell if there will a Tesla-to-SAE Combo adapter cord and a method for Tesla to sell the electrons,, (for a change) !
Tesla currently sells a Chademo-to-Tesla adapter cord.
No white-knuckled, stuff-of-legend, range anxiety trips through the mountains. Sorry about that! :)

To your point, the reality is that dealers don't understand these cars, let alone differences in L1/L2/L3 charging. There are a number of nearly new non-DCFC 2014's that are essentially 50% off of the price of 2016 models (for guys like me that can't claim tax rebates).

I was about to buy one of these at $12,000 until I found out it didn't have DCFC but again, I have two other cars available in the rare event I need to go longer distances. I used your "how disappointed I am" angle and offered $11,000 which was rejected...but another 500 bucks might get it done since the car's been sitting on the lot since last July.

NORTON
Posts: 1278
Joined: Fri May 01, 2015 5:52 am
Location: KC,MO

Re: Buying a Used Spark EV - Do I really need fast charging?

Fri Mar 11, 2016 9:37 am

oilerlord wrote:...... I used your "how disappointed I am" angle and offered $11,000 which was rejected...but another 500 bucks might get it done since the car's been sitting on the lot since last July.
Patience, young Canuck. Hungry Dogs these are, you are dealing with. Let them, in their own juices, stew for a while.

Will you be going there or handling the purchase and shipping all from the Great White North? If you have to show up in person cash and/or certified checks makes there ears perk up!
Last edited by NORTON on Sun Mar 13, 2016 4:32 am, edited 1 time in total.
Used '14 2LT w/ DCFC. +78 K miles.
Mostly free charging! Only one LONG visit to the shop....
GM needs Modern Troubleshooting tools for Modern EV's.
3 step Trouble Tree, 1st try car died again, 2nd try not covered / cost $800. 3rd try fixed the problem.

oilerlord
Posts: 50
Joined: Fri Dec 18, 2015 9:55 am

Re: Buying a Used Spark EV - Do I really need fast charging?

Fri Mar 11, 2016 10:29 am

NORTON wrote:
oilerlord wrote:...... I used your "how disappointed I am" angle and offered $11,000 which was rejected...but another 500 bucks might get it done since the car's been sitting on the lot since last July.
Patience, young Canuck. Hungry Dogs these are, you are dealing with. Let them stew in their own juices for a while.

Will you be going there or handling the purchase and shipping all from the Great White North? If you have to show up in person cash and/or certified checks makes there ears perk up!
Hungry dogs perhaps, but ears don't necessarily perk up when the car is a zero-profit sale. I've done a few deals via long distance before...pretty standard stuff...CC deposit / wire transfer / title in hand before getting to the border. Logistics are easy to arrange too. Fortunately, the warranty on these survive the border crossing too.

No reason to go to the dealer since they are required to charge state tax if I pick up the car in person. For that reason, shipping it makes the most sense.

Nashco
Posts: 537
Joined: Wed May 29, 2013 12:00 am
Location: Portland, OR

Re: Buying a Used Spark EV - Do I really need fast charging?

Fri Mar 11, 2016 12:42 pm

Having had a variety of fast charging and non-fast charging cars, I wouldn't own a car without a DC charging option. It gives so much more flexibility, not just for road trips, but for opportunity charging and emergency charging. If it was a limited time lease (like my B250e) then lacking a fast charger isn't that big of a deal, but if it's something you want to keep for a long time it seems silly to assume you'll never have infrastructure. 5 years ago there weren't any DC chargers anywhere. Now there are thousands blanketing the US (and a bit of Canada). In 5 more years, they'll be significantly more common IMO.

Do you need it? No, of course not. You don't need a car at all. Should you get a car with fast charging if you're getting an EV? If you're buying it, of course. It's not much more money and adds more value than the cost.

Bryce

xylhim
Posts: 222
Joined: Wed Nov 20, 2013 7:12 pm

Re: Buying a Used Spark EV - Do I really need fast charging?

Sat Mar 12, 2016 7:16 am

With the new NDP government and carbon taxes on heavy emitters, I would suspect there will be fast chagrining infrastructure in the province within the next two years. BC will eventually extend their fast charging network to the Alberta boarder. I can easily see that within 4 years, I could make my huge Edmonton to California trip exclusively on DCFC stations. When I left for California, there were only 5 stations on my route, now there are 26. Of all the jurisdictions in North America, I could see a rapid change in Alberta, this province is ready for it. Edmonton has the highest per capita solar installations of any city in Canada, people are tired of the economic swings from the oil patch, and the next generation of Albertan's are seeing the benefits of green energy.

oilerlord
Posts: 50
Joined: Fri Dec 18, 2015 9:55 am

Re: Buying a Used Spark EV - Do I really need fast charging?

Sun Mar 13, 2016 8:13 am

We'll see. New carbon taxes and rolling out $100,000 DC fast charging stations while Alberta's oil based economy is dying on the vine - isn't exactly vote-inspiring to a laid off oil worker that can't make their mortgage payment.

Politics aside, my priorities are lowest price and fewest cycles on the battery...future the availability of L3 charging is more of a nice-to-have than a necessity for me. It will only be a few months before I'll be able to pick up a very low mileage 2014 at around ~$10K. If the resale market suggests a non-DCFC car is $2K less than one with that option, I'll use the savings to install some PV on my east facing roof so I can catch more of the morning sun to charge up the car.

NORTON
Posts: 1278
Joined: Fri May 01, 2015 5:52 am
Location: KC,MO

Re: Buying a Used Spark EV - Do I really need fast charging?

Sun Mar 13, 2016 8:34 am

oilerlord wrote:>... It will only be a few months before I'll be able to pick up a very low mileage 2014 at around ~$10K. If the resale market suggests a non-DCFC car is $2K less than one with that option.....
>>... install some PV on my east facing roof ....
> This is probably true. If you have patience, even better! Somebody's got to show the Non-DCFC Spark EV's some love...
>> "East" ?? Spaced and angled up to the south?
Used '14 2LT w/ DCFC. +78 K miles.
Mostly free charging! Only one LONG visit to the shop....
GM needs Modern Troubleshooting tools for Modern EV's.
3 step Trouble Tree, 1st try car died again, 2nd try not covered / cost $800. 3rd try fixed the problem.

Return to “General / Main Owners Forum”