Public charging networks

[jay5729]

What public charging station networks are you a member of? Where are you? What kind of rates and other usefully information.

I signed up for Chargepoint because that's what my work put in. I have found on the plugshare app that there are plenty of free stations around, which is great.

Been thinking of getting a blink network card, but I can't tell if it's really necessary as it looks like most blink stations can be accessed via a phone call.

Why on earth would anyone subscribe to eVgo? Monthly fees plus per charge rate fees? No surprise there really since this is the same Texas company that ripped us off in 1999 during the energy "crisis".

I mostly just search on plugshare or Recargo for the free Chargepoint or clipper creek stations provided by municipalities.

What are you using?

 

[Pegasus]

I just use PlugShare to find stations. Most of them in my area (Central Coast) are not part of a network. Those that are seem to be Chargepoint, and since my Spark came with a ChargePoint card, I'll be fine with that though I haven't used any yet. Just free municipal ones and some Rabobanks have solar panels & a charging station.

 

[emv]

We haven't had to and would rather not to use public charging stations. The Spark's charger is too slow and the price is too high.

But, in case we try to go too far, they make a great plan B. Stop and shop for an hour or two until you have enough range to get home. We're signed up with ChargePoint and Blink. They're both free to join. A ChargePoint card came with the Spark and Blink seems to have the most stations around PDX.

There's one very good reason to get the Blink card even though it's not required; use the card and it's generally a buck an hour, get a code by smartphone and it's double that.

 

[NomadMac]

We haven't had to and would rather not to use public charging stations. The Spark's charger is too slow and the price is too high.

Most of the Chargepoint stations in my area are free. In the municipal lots, we have to pay for parking anyway, and the charging is free. Free charging at the local Target and shopping mall.

I kind of like going to a two-hour movie and having my car topped off when I get out. Who can argue with 24 miles of range added for free?

"I'm not a fiscal conservative, I'm just cheap".
- Jerry Brown

 

[NomadMac]

Mostly use Chargepoint.
I recently added Blink because they have stations at the Emeryville Ikea.
I added Sun Trail / Greenlots because they have the only station in West Marin. There's a fee but it gives me peace of mind if I want to go out there and not worry about getting back.

We're in agreement regarding Evgo. They're supposed to add J1772 DCFC but I haven't seen any evidence of that at the two local stations.
I don't have fast charge in my Spark.

 

[Sparkyv]

My first day of trying to stretch my drive. Used "Plug Share" to plan my route. First stop, Solana Beach Municipal offices. They have (3) Blink chargers. Of course one was being used and the other two had someone parked in them that was either not charging or was not even an EV. One of those was a city vehicle that wasn't EV. I wedged my Spark into a spot that the cord would reach. Got my code and settled in for 30 minutes of work while I "topped off". After 30 minutes I unplugged. It had only added one (1) mile to my distance available setting. Couldn't wait so I headed to a place near my destination. I had given myself lots of extra time in case of such issues. I found a fast charger ChargePoint station in their app and headed there. I got there and it was in the parking lot of a Cox Communications facility. A completely gated area. The guard at the gate told me that the charging stations were for employees only. I happened to be near several auto dealers so there we other choices. At least that is what I thought. Nissan, all their stations were full with Leafs that were demo cars. Ford. Two Blink stations. I tried to reuse my Blink code, that should have been good for 24 hours, and it wouldn't take the code. I called Blink. They gave me two more codes and none worked. I moved on to another Blink station down the block. It was broken. After getting what I had started out to get I mapped my way back. 31 miles to go, 17 miles on the dash. Stopped at a municipal parking garage in Rancho Bernardo. They had a GE charging station. It was free but I had to go to two different spots before I found one that was working. 30 minutes there gave me 8 miles. Headed to what was suppose to be a "fast charging" station about 10 miles from work. Not only was it not a fast charging station it was gone completely. Again found a auto dealer, Chevy this time, and asked for some help. I was down to 8 miles with 10 to go. They plugged me in for 30 minutes. They had a 220v EVSE but it was not a fast charging unit. Got enough juice to get to work. I had brought my 110v plug with me so I plugged in there and got enough to get home. Can't wait until I put in my 220v EVSE at home.

 

[cwerdna]

I've never personally used any Blink infrastructure, but their equipment is known to be notoriously unreliable, as in, it wouldn't be surprising for it to be down and not fixed promptly. I would never want to depend on any of their public equipment.

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=43&t=15861&hilit=carcharging+group and http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=357133#p357133 has some chatter on this.

I have a Blink card that I received from my dealer which I've never used. I also have 2 Chargepoint cards (received 1 in the mail ages ago, before I had an EV and another from work). My dealer had a stack of Chargepoint and Blink cards for those buying/leasing Leafs to take.

Re: the Spark EV's slow OBC as pointed out earlier, yep. FWIW, I have 'a 13 Leaf SV (has 6 kW OBC) and my work's Chargepoint EVSEs run at 208 volts w/a max output of 30 amps. My car typically pulls 5.8 to 6.0 kW. I haven't seen what Spark EVs pull, but all the Volts I see charging @ work only seem to pull ~3.1 kW on those same Chargepoint EVSEs.

An example notification I get when charging my car to 80% (so it hasn't ramped down yet) is this:

We wanted to let you know that your vehicle, which is charging at (redacted), is drawing very little power. Typically, this means it's fully charged, however, it may also indicate that your vehicle is configured for delayed charging. Your vehicle has accepted 9.72 kWh of electricity and has been plugged in for 01:55:01 (hh:mm:ss).

However, those notifications are a little late (long story but the station needs to be able to detect that charging really has stopped vs. bumps that can happen during what we believe is battery balancing). I received a notification from Nissan Carwings that my car was done charging 17 minutes before the above.

I also posted some examples of how much power I and others picked up using CHAdeMO DC FCs (not compatible w/Spark EV) at http://www.mychevysparkev.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6079#p6079.

Re: spots being ICEd or blocked, yep. That's a problem. You can shame those who have ICEd at http://iceshaming.tumblr.com/.

 

[nozferatu]

What public charging station networks are you a member of? Where are you? What kind of rates and other usefully information.

I signed up for Chargepoint because that's what my work put in. I have found on the plugshare app that there are plenty of free stations around, which is great.

Been thinking of getting a blink network card, but I can't tell if it's really necessary as it looks like most blink stations can be accessed via a phone call.

Why on earth would anyone subscribe to eVgo? Monthly fees plus per charge rate fees? No surprise there really since this is the same Texas company that ripped us off in 1999 during the energy "crisis".

I mostly just search on plugshare or Recargo for the free Chargepoint or clipper creek stations provided by municipalities.

What are you using?

I just signed up for ChargePoint but I've never had to use a charging station as of yet. I'm getting around 105-115 miles per full charge and have not driven more than 65 miles in one day thus far. Even then, I still had another 55 miles to go.

 

[gra]

Mostly use Chargepoint.
I recently added Blink because they have stations at the Emeryville Ikea.
I added Sun Trail / Greenlots because they have the only station in West Marin. There's a fee but it gives me peace of mind if I want to go out there and not worry about getting back.

We're in agreement regarding Evgo. They're supposed to add J1772 DCFC but I haven't seen any evidence of that at the two local stations.
I don't have fast charge in my Spark.

If I understand the terms of the settlement correctly, the trigger for evGo to start backfitting Combo plugs to all the sites without them is after there are UL-listed (I think - see below) Combo quick chargers available from at least two different companies. They then have six months to retrofit all the old sites, and must install dual-mode capable chargers at all new sites. At the moment, only ABB has a UL-listed dual-mode quick charger. Efacec has one that's ETL-listed, but it's unclear if that meets the requirement of the settlement (which says something like "national standards organization", without stating whether only the U.S. U.L. listing would qualify here).

 

[TonyWilliams]

NRG/EVgo Deal:

https://www.evgonetwork.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/NRG-Leave-Behind-1-EV-Infrastructure-Agreement-4-27-12-FINAL.pdf

Initially all Freedom Stations shall have one
(1) or more DC Fast Chargers compatible with the CHAdeMo
Standard and one (1) Level 2 Charger compatible with the SAE
Standard. Upon the occurrence of (A) approval by SAE for a
charger standard for DC Fast Chargers and (B) the commercial
availability from at least two (2) unaffiliated manufacturers of one
or more DC Fast Chargers that are SAE Standard compatible or
equipment capable of making the Freedom Stations’ DC Fast
Chargers compatible with both the SAE Standard and the
CHAdeMo Standard (and in each case that are approved by the
Nationally Recognized Testing Laboratories), then NRG shall have
six (6) months to complete the modification of all installed
Freedom Stations to include at least one (1) SAE Standard
compatible DC Fast Charger and one (1) CHAdeMo Standard
compatible DC Fast Charger or one (1) CHAdeMo+SAE DC
Charger. Thereafter, all newly installed Freedom Stations will
have at least one (1) DC Fast Charger that is SAE Standard
compatible.

 

[gra]

NRG/EVgo Deal:

https://www.evgonetwork.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/NRG-Leave-Behind-1-EV-Infrastructure-Agreement-4-27-12-FINAL.pdf

Initially all Freedom Stations shall have one
(1) or more DC Fast Chargers compatible with the CHAdeMo
Standard and one (1) Level 2 Charger compatible with the SAE
Standard. Upon the occurrence of (A) approval by SAE for a
charger standard for DC Fast Chargers and (B) the commercial
availability from at least two (2) unaffiliated manufacturers of one
or more DC Fast Chargers that are SAE Standard compatible or
equipment capable of making the Freedom Stations’ DC Fast
Chargers compatible with both the SAE Standard and the
CHAdeMo Standard (and in each case that are approved by the
Nationally Recognized Testing Laboratories), then NRG shall have
six (6) months to complete the modification of all installed
Freedom Stations to include at least one (1) SAE Standard
compatible DC Fast Charger and one (1) CHAdeMo Standard
compatible DC Fast Charger or one (1) CHAdeMo+SAE DC
Charger. Thereafter, all newly installed Freedom Stations will
have at least one (1) DC Fast Charger that is SAE Standard
compatible.

Thanks for posting that, Tony. I'd seen it over on TMC and had linked to it somewhere, but was unable to find it again for some reason. Now, does anyone know if an ETL-listing is acceptable in the U.S.? A couple of decades ago we used to sell PV modules that were ETL-listed (none were U.L. at the time IIRR), for people who weren't so far off-grid that they'd never see an inspector, and they'd sometimes pass muster, but IIRC it was solely up to the individual inspector. I doubt that would be the case here, and the wording appears ambiguous to me.

 

[TonyWilliams]

ETL meets the threshold of the eVgo / NRG deal with the state of California as a "Nationally recognized" body.


http://www.etcconnect.com/img/whitepapers/ul_versus_etl_bulletin.pdf

"UL VERSUS ETL
ETL is a relative newcomer to the Nationally Recognized Test Laboratories market, but has been increasing in market visibility. Skeptics say that because they have a better Marketing department and a more customer service oriented approach than UL.
Like UL, ETL is a Nationally Recognized Testing Laboratory, or NRTL. However, unlike UL, ETL does not create
standards; it simply tests electrical products to UL-created standards. This means that ETL and UL interpretations of proper testing protocol may be different for a given standard, with UL often taking a more stringent approach. It is for this reason that many engineers and AHJ’s (Authority Having Jurisdiction, or local inspecting authority) strongly prefer a UL listing over an ETL listing, even though both come from and NRTL and are therefore “legal”. Some specifiers even take the position that only a UL listing is acceptable for certain types of products."


The first CCS Combo1 installed in San Diego is not compliant, and uses 400 volt three phase (Euro spec) with a special transformer just for this install.

 

[gra]

ETL meets the threshold of the eVgo / NRG deal with the state of California as a "Nationally recognized" body.


http://www.etcconnect.com/img/whitepapers/ul_versus_etl_bulletin.pdf

"UL VERSUS ETL
ETL is a relative newcomer to the Nationally Recognized Test Laboratories market, but has been increasing in market visibility. Skeptics say that because they have a better Marketing department and a more customer service oriented approach than UL.
Like UL, ETL is a Nationally Recognized Testing Laboratory, or NRTL. However, unlike UL, ETL does not create
standards; it simply tests electrical products to UL-created standards. This means that ETL and UL interpretations of proper testing protocol may be different for a given standard, with UL often taking a more stringent approach. It is for this reason that many engineers and AHJ’s (Authority Having Jurisdiction, or local inspecting authority) strongly prefer a UL listing over an ETL listing, even though both come from and NRTL and are therefore “legal”. Some specifiers even take the position that only a UL listing is acceptable for certain types of products."


The first CCS Combo1 installed in San Diego is not compliant, and uses 400 volt three phase (Euro spec) with a special transformer just for this install.

Excellent. It seems that the trigger has been released and the clock is ticking (is that enough mixed metaphors?), and the six months is counting down. We'll need to keep an eye on evGo to make sure they meet the timetable.

 

[buickanddeere]

Nobody has learned from the Beta vs. VHS and HDDVD vs Blueray marketing battles. Goes for all frigging different battery sizes, cell phone charging and data connectors.
All you corporate egos out there. Go with one world wide charging plug.

 

[cwerdna]

Nobody has leaned from the Beta vs. VHS and HDDVD vs Blueray marketing battles. Goes for all frigging different
...
All you corporate egos out there. Go with one world wide charging plug.

Exactly!

Unfortunately, for DC FCing, instead of just the world standard CHAdeMO (single standard regardless of where you are in the world) and Tesla's proprietary Model S and beyond connector (well, unfortunately they had 2, to accomodate North America and Mennekes in Europe), the SAE decided to introduce 2 standards J1772 CCS ("Combo1") and "Combo2" (Mennekes CCS for lack of a better term). And yet, the only serious EV player w/DC FC capable cars backing Combo1 and Combo2 is BMW. The rest? Puny EV sales or vehicles that can't DC FC or no EV program or compliance cars only.

Visual aids at http://www.mychevysparkev.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=5012#p5012.

Join in on our DC FC discussion at http://www.mychevysparkev.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=3555.

 

[TonyWilliams]

Nobody has learned from the Beta vs. VHS and HDDVD vs Blueray marketing battles. Goes for all frigging different battery sizes, cell phone charging and data connectors.
All you corporate egos out there. Go with one world wide charging plug.

I'm in complete agreement, hence my dismay when GM and German car makers started yet another one.

 

[gra]

Nobody has learned from the Beta vs. VHS and HDDVD vs Blueray marketing battles. Goes for all frigging different battery sizes, cell phone charging and data connectors.
All you corporate egos out there. Go with one world wide charging plug.

I'm in complete agreement, hence my dismay when GM and German car makers started yet another one.

Then, why no dismay about Tesla?

It's way too early for there to be a single standard chosen, much as that might make things easier for owners. Nor is there any driving need to do so, as the number of both PEVs and quick chargers remains so small, distribution so limited and (except for Tesla) no profitable business model. More importantly, the companies (Tesla excepted) don't want to spend billions on a standard that may well be obsolete in five or ten years, not because standard 'A' wins out over standard 'B', but because they're both replaced by a second or even third generation standard 'E', stranding a bunch of capital assets.

 

[buickanddeere]

Thank goodness I can still purchase beta vcr tapes from ebay.

 

[TonyWilliams]

... the companies (Tesla excepted) don't want to spend billions on a standard that may well be obsolete in five or ten years, not because standard 'A' wins out over standard 'B', but because they're both replaced by a second or even third generation standard 'E', stranding a bunch of capital assets.

Well, I can't chat much about this or the F-bombing lynch mob will start another thread to ban me, but I agree !!!

If CHAdeMO, GB/T and CCS Combo1/2 (the three that have official International approval) are the end game, we might as well give up on EV's. We need far more capable (Tesla), user friendly (Tesla) and better installation sites (Tesla).

But, we have to get to that end game, so here we go.

 

[emv]

Nobody has learned from the Beta vs. VHS and HDDVD vs Blueray marketing battles. Goes for all frigging different battery sizes, cell phone charging and data connectors.
All you corporate egos out there. Go with one world wide charging plug.

I nominate this for Post Of The Year.

The proliferation of EV's will be hindered if there is no standard plug. Could you imagine daily life if NEMA 15 was just one of several incompatible socket designs? Standardize on one configuration even if it's not the best, it's better than having a multiplicity of standards.