Range--No problem!

[rmollett03]

I must be a terrible driver. I am averaging 3.8kwh right now. I will have to work on my driving skills.

 

[iletric]

I must be a terrible driver. I am averaging 3.8kwh right now. I will have to work on my driving skills.

You're just fine. They're hypermiling for the bragging rights...

 

[owl]

Spark EV owners,

Glad to see there is a forum for this car. I am a potential buyer, and I've narrowed down from all the EV choices to the Spark EV for the following reasons:
- range (I will need 70mi round-trip, mostly freeway)
- cost (lease or purchase still both options)
- size (I live in SF proper and want the small size for parallel parking and the 4-door for fitting a car seat in the back)

The Leaf would be the lowest cost for me, because of an employer incentive, but the range is the problem.

My main question, will the Spark EV make it from SF (near Golden Gate Park) to Stanford University and back without needing to charge in between? Details:
- 3mi surface roads to highway I-280S
- 30mi on I-280 (I-280 has some of the most hills on any highway I've driven) - I like to drive around 70-75mph but am willing to adjust driving style but don't want to drive 60-65mph
- 1-2mi surface roads to parking lot

I haven't seen others list any range figures when driving primarily on I-280, and the hills along with the 70-100miles/charge concern me.

Thanks for any input.

 

[jsca72]

owl,
You won't have problems on the city streets. You might even gain mileage there. Also, hills won't be a problem unless you have to climb, climb, climb for an extended period. With the Spark EV and hills, you gain range as you descend and lose range as you ascend. So if you're doing both on your commute, it should average out. The problem you might run into is the high speeds on the freeway. It will use range quicker than a more "leisurely" pace. Hopefully EV drivers that do a lot of highway driving can answer that part. Also, running the heater will further decrease range.

What I also want to address is the parallel parking in SF in the Spark. Here's a place a Spark shines! I had to park in very small space on a hill the other day. I was parking with the nose of the car going down the hill. The Spark pulled in beautifully. When I got back in my car, I was still tightly wedged in between the same two cars. Here's where the electric motor was so perfect. I had just a few inches between my car and the other cars so I didn't want the car to lunge at all as it might with a gas driven car with a stick shift or even possibly an automatic. The electric motor smoothly inched the car forward and back, and I got out easily.

 

[Time2go]

To answer the freeway part, my commute is mostly freeway 20 miles each way. I'm on 237 for 10 and 880 for the other 10. Luckily I'm also opposite commute so my speeds are between 65 to 75. Have 8000 miles now I can say that those speeds don't effect range that much. For me my range is low 80s. I think the Spark EV is one of the best cars for commuting. It's small but the extra weight from the battery makes it very stable on the freeway.

 

[Oberon]

I haven't seen others list any range figures when driving primarily on I-280, and the hills along with the 70-100miles/charge concern me.

I think you should be fine. I drive mine on 880 from Oakland to downtown San Jose (79 miles round trip) with no problem. I've driven it on 280 and you lose range going up and get most (but not all) of it back coming down. The only issue would be if your idea of 70-75 is really 80-85. Speed definitely has a cost. But 70 for 70 miles would be no problem even with the hills. Basically if you don't drive like a jackass then the car delivers the advertised range. If you blast around then you pay for that (uhhm, or so I have heard ;-))

For what its worth, I may be taking mine to San Jose on Monday and returning via 280 and SF so I'll have some idea of how that goes. I'll report back if I do this.

You may find that the electric experience may make you more chill on the freeway anyway. It's kind of fun trying to be more efficient and the car does not have that frenetic buzz that gas cars have so I find that I naturally tend to drive slower with the Spark EV than with our Honda Fit.

 

[TonyWilliams]

I concur with the above; 70 miles is not going to be a problem WHILE THE CAR IS NEW in the moderate San Francisco climate without any real mountains to climb.

In the future, you may want to run the heater, and that will KILL the range. You will occasionally need defrost in San Fran, so adjust speed accordingly to offset heater use. You'll learn how much quickly enough.

You will run low on battery at the end of your day, and any road closure, etc, could make life interesting. I would try and get any at-work or nearby work charging, even if only 120 volts all day.

Finally, the biggest issue is battery degradation over time. Honestly, we have no idea how well these cells will survive, but even the best will degrade 10-20% over 5 years. Now, it's really cutting it close.

I would get the optional quick charge port for when the Bay Area has a few compatible Frankenplugs in the future and you REALLY need the boost.

Otherwise, I would do this drive in a LEAF at 65mph or below with just seat heaters. There are already dozens of CHAdeMO chargers there, and LEAF also has an optional 6.6kW on board charger that will charge twice as fast as the Spark EV (and Volt with the same 3.3 charger) at the THOUSANDS of public J1772 charging spots.

http://www.plugshare.com/?latitude=37.775024&longitude=-122.419416&spanLat=1.361179&spanLng=2.644958

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=15749&view=unread#unread

 

[Sesamecrunch]

I commute from Half Moon Bay to the Presidio, 72 miles on 280 and 92. I usually get 4.5 - 4.8 miles per kWh based on my driving, even with all the hills, and the battery shows about 20% charge left when I get home. I drive moderately, use the seat heater if needed. My route has less freeway than yours.

There are plenty of charge points along your way if you get unexpectedly stranded. I have a Brompton folding bike in the small trunk. In case I need a charge, I can ride to a coffee shop, or just get some exercise. Haven't had to use it yet though. Almost 6000 miles now.

For peace of mind, can't you find a place to plug in at work, even at 110 volts? Stanford and Palo Alto have to be the friendliest place for EVs in the US!

It's a super commute car, especially with my solar panels.

Spark EV owners,

Glad to see there is a forum for this car. I am a potential buyer, and I've narrowed down from all the EV choices to the Spark EV for the following reasons:
- range (I will need 70mi round-trip, mostly freeway)
- cost (lease or purchase still both options)
- size (I live in SF proper and want the small size for parallel parking and the 4-door for fitting a car seat in the back)

The Leaf would be the lowest cost for me, because of an employer incentive, but the range is the problem.

My main question, will the Spark EV make it from SF (near Golden Gate Park) to Stanford University and back without needing to charge in between? Details:
- 3mi surface roads to highway I-280S
- 30mi on I-280 (I-280 has some of the most hills on any highway I've driven) - I like to drive around 70-75mph but am willing to adjust driving style but don't want to drive 60-65mph
- 1-2mi surface roads to parking lot

I haven't seen others list any range figures when driving primarily on I-280, and the hills along with the 70-100miles/charge concern me.

Thanks for any input.

 

[Pegasus]

Owl:
To add to what the others have said, the manual states that best range is obtained driving 50MPH, I presume for air resistance reasons. My Garmin GPS has a "Less Fuel" routing option that seems to prefer county roads & surface streets especially where hills are involved. That way, you're not having to go fast AND climb and I find that going 50-55MPH on these roads is comfortable as opposed to doing it on a highway. It'll increase your commute time somewhat of course, but for the range peace of mind, it'll be worth it especially as your battery ages.

 

[Oberon]

Finally, the biggest issue is battery degradation over time. Honestly, we have no idea how well these cells will survive, but even the best will degrade 10-20% over 5 years. Now, it's really cutting it close.

Of course if you lease the car for three years, then you don't have to worry as much about what happens in five years. Also, the Spark has A123 cells and thermal management both of which tend to extend battery life.

 

[owl]

jsca72, Time2go, Oberon, TonyWilliams, Sesamecrunch, Pegasus,

Thank you very much for your responses. They are reassuring.

Yes, there are a good number of charging ports on campus and down the road at the Stanford mall. Stanford University charges $2/hour from 8AM-4PM, $1/hour from 4PM onwards. I'd rather not pay ~$0.66/hkWh, but it would be an option if in a jam.

Now, if I can sell my current car, I'll probably be on the road with a Spark EV within a couple of months.

Thank you, all.

 

[Oberon]

I tried the 280 experiment this night. It was cold, low 40s and that seems to hit the range a bit along even without the heater on. One thing that hurt was normally I fall in behind some bulky vehicle going about the right speed and even without tailgating there is an observable power savings compared to pushing all the air out of the way by yourself. On 880 there are lots of SUV's and trucks and traffic is sort of dense keeping speeds reasonable. On 280 at night it's all Porsches and Priuses going 80 so this trick does not work. Between that, the hills, and the cold I got a bit under 4.0 miles per kwh keeping the speed between 65 and 70. Normally I can get between 4.4 and 4.6.

Now that I have tried it, I'd say you might not get 70 miles on a cold day if you want to go 70.

 

[owl]

Thank you - very helpful. It sounds like it's going to be a close call but still possible (depending on temperature, driving style, etc).

I tried the 280 experiment this night. It was cold, low 40s and that seems to hit the range a bit along even without the heater on. One thing that hurt was normally I fall in behind some bulky vehicle going about the right speed and even without tailgating there is an observable power savings compared to pushing all the air out of the way by yourself. On 880 there are lots of SUV's and trucks and traffic is sort of dense keeping speeds reasonable. On 280 at night it's all Porsches and Priuses going 80 so this trick does not work. Between that, the hills, and the cold I got a bit under 4.0 miles per kwh keeping the speed between 65 and 70. Normally I can get between 4.4 and 4.6.

Now that I have tried it, I'd say you might not get 70 miles on a cold day if you want to go 70.

 

[nikwax]

Owl:
To add to what the others have said, the manual states that best range is obtained driving 50MPH, I presume for air resistance reasons. My Garmin GPS has a "Less Fuel" routing option that seems to prefer county roads & surface streets especially where hills are involved. That way, you're not having to go fast AND climb and I find that going 50-55MPH on these roads is comfortable as opposed to doing it on a highway. It'll increase your commute time somewhat of course, but for the range peace of mind, it'll be worth it especially as your battery ages.

Are there GPS units that have a "less fuel" option for EV's, or just for ICE's? I assume that they would be different.

 

[NORTON]

a "less fuel" option for EV's, or just for ICE's? I assume that they would be different.

Why would it be different?
Energy is energy.
If one path takes less due to elevation change or posted speed limits that is all the info you need.

 

[nikwax]

a "less fuel" option for EV's, or just for ICE's? I assume that they would be different.

Why would it be different?
Energy is energy.
If one path takes less due to elevation change or posted speed limits that is all the info you need.

For starters, an EV regenerates power downhill. ICE doesn't.


I've read up on a couple of projects to bring EV sensibility to GPS, one by Pioneer and another by UC. Haven't found anything recent yet.


Or, maybe as you say, it doesn't matter.

 

[Jedi2155]

Regeneration is not 100% efficient, so going uphill and downhill is still not as good as a flat road.

 

[nj1266]

I did an experiment on my last charge. I drove surface streets only and did not charge the car until I had 4% left on the battery, the equivalent of 5 miles. So what range did I get?

103 miles+5 miles left=108 miles. Way higher than the 82 miles range that the EPA suggests. The MPGe was a 203, much higher than the EPA 128 city MPGe.

The lifetime MPGe is 149 with 6295 smiles on the ODO.

I got skittish the last five miles. I wanted to go to the gym and back, a 3.53 miles round trip, but I started charging.