Researching the Spark EV

[evcurious]

Hi, I'm seriously considering the lease of a Spark EV. I'm also weighing it against a Fiat 500e.

I was hoping I could get some opinions about the things I'm most concerned about regarding the Spark. The main thing is the 3.3KW charge circuit. I live in the SF valley North of L.A. there are no SAE DC Quick Chargers convenient to any place that I frequent currently. I am planning to install a level 2 charger at home.

I tend to drive about 25 miles R/T on a normal work day, but some days I may make lots of short trips usually totalling less than 30 miles. On a weekend day, I might make a 50 mile R/T and then return home to plug in before venturing out again. My wife has an ICE car and we could trade off, or use it for longer distances.

The fact is I'll be primarily doing Level 2 charging at home, even if a DC quick charge station opened up near me, it seems like it would be a very expensive way to charge. I would love to know if any of you folks can tell me how much of a hassle it is to charge on a day to day basis with such a slow charge circuit, does this hamper your use or enjoyment of the vehicle?

I'd also like to know what things you like least about the car, or would change if you could. I'm not looking to bash the Spark at all, I just find that often if you ask people what things they dislike about something they like, you can get some good info.

Thanks for any info.

 

[xylhim]

You shouldn't have a problem doing 50 mile round trips. If the terrain is flat, you'd even be able to do 90-100 mile round trips, by setting the cruise to 55mph. The best option is to always charge at each destination though, you'll find the car, no matter which EV you decide to get, is more enjoyable when your pack is mostly full.

As for a dislike on the Spark, it is what you've already mentioned, the 3.3 kW charger. It takes 6 -7 hours for a level 2 EVSE to recharge it from empty. This usually isn't a problem for trips around Southern California, as I always try to charge at my destination by checking www.plugshare.com. The big problem is when you want to be an EV road warrior and drive cross country; until the combo chargers are rolled out across the west coast, between big cities, road trips are a challenging proposition.

However, it was the DC fast charging option that convinced me to get the Spark over the Fiat. The number of SAE combo chargers has increased from one in so. Cal to 20 in one year, with many more on the way. I have driven from the high desert to San Diego using a combo charger in the middle, only having to wait 45 mins to get a full charge.

You may want to also check out the Soul EV as well however, comparable price, longer range, 6.6kW charger and a more fully deployed fast charging network.

 

[evcurious]

Thanks for that info xylhim,

The SAE Combo and the faster 0-60 times are 2 of the big pluses in my book for the Spark, though neither are things I'll make much use of day to day right away. I could see using both if the there were a lot more SAE Combos around .

The bigger pluses for me are much lower drive off cost than the Fiat, 4 doors and $500 off a Bosch charger. But the slow Level 2, coupled with the seemingly serious over capacity at public charge stations currently keeps scaring me towards the Fiat. I do not plan to be an "EV road warrior" I'll use my wife's car for that.

I drove the Soul at the LA auto show, I was underwhelmed by it. One of the things that I like about both the Spark and the Fiat are they are sort of fun to drive. I found the Soul slow, ponderous and heavy feeling. Also, the leases I've seen on the Soul are quite a bit more expensive than the Spark.

 

[Chaconzies]

Spark EV has room for 4 and four doors, Fiat 500e is more of a two person vehicle. 3.3kw charging on my spark is a slight annoyance sometimes but for the most part I just plug in overnight and there's no issues at all.
I was looking at both vehicles when I bought mine but what I found was that the lease deals for the Spark are way cheaper than the Fiat. I couldn't justify the price increase for the higher charging rate given that there's way less room for stuff.
I haven't tested the Fiat but I've heard it is quick, the Spark is loads of fun though.
I think the fiat probably has more premium inside but I'm not a fan of the outside on any of the 500s.

As for DC fast charging, I've only used it twice, but as more are being built it's nice to have your range expand.

I would agree with the other comment, the Soul EV is a pretty great EV, much more room than both, slightly larger range, and has Chademo which is pretty widely available in SO Cal. A little more plain but not terribly slow by any means.

Based on your usage any of these cars should be fine for your use. I would suggest test driving all three before you make a decision.

 

[Chaconzies]

the seemingly serious over capacity at public charge stations currently keeps scaring me towards the Fiat

What do you mean by this?

 

[aviatorjames]

I just bought my 2015 1LT w/ DCFC last week and could not be happier!!
440 miles and everything about this car has exceeded my expectations!
My research included...

Spark EV ...I like just about everything, good build-quality, solid feel, a functional little commuter!
eGolf ...didn't get to drive one, they're not widely available yet, but pretty ...and more expensive
500e ...fucking ugliest interior in it's class! ...but drove pretty ok
Focus Electric ...questionable range for me, didn't drive it ...too much car
Leaf ...most common EV around, but seriously needs updated engineering
(that became the order of my preference for this list)

Didn't consider the following...
iMiev
Smart
BMW
Mercedes

My commute is 54 miles round trip. Mixed highway with a 1500' mountain pass.
I leave fully charged (240v level 2 in my garage) and get home with about 30 to 35 miles left.
...slightly better than advertised, depending on what I do with my right foot!

I don't want to go through all the pros & cons of all these vehicles.
But I did ask myself some questions about what I need this car to do for me.
...and that is what you should do, don't get more than you need, don't get less.

I really feel like several of these manufacturers try to make their EVs something they aren't!
...trying to make it a station wagon, or a sports car, etc.

 

[evcurious]

the seemingly serious over capacity at public charge stations currently keeps scaring me towards the Fiat

What do you mean by this?

As I am not yet an EV owner, it is anecdotal. I read several posts elsewhere on this forum and various other places about people hogging chargers and charger spaces, such that they were made unusable when needed or having their vehicles unplugged during charging.

I have also been scoping out EV spots in public places, all of which seem to be perpetually occupied by a Volt, Prius or C-max. Of course I may be wrong and when I need to plug-in in a public place, may have no issues, but in a place like L.A. where absolutely everything seems to be at least 30% over capacity, I wouldn't expect any different from public charge stations.

The reason this scares me toward the Fiat is that the Fiat charges twice as fast on a Level 2 charger, so I suspect if I need to use a public charger, I'll spend less time there and if I have to wait for someone to finish when I arrive, will still be done sooner.

 

[evcurious]

Thanks for the replies, either the Spark or the Fiat would meet my current needs. I'm really right set squarely in between the two. The pros and cons for me are nearly equal for both, but I didn't expect anyone to recommend a Fiat on the Spark forum. I have 3 co-workers who love their 500es, I know no one personally who owns a Spark and I've only seen one in the wild, it was parked and I was unable to query the owner. That's why I'm here asking you folks. I do like the Spark and financially it makes more sense than the Fiat.

I was able to drive the Spark, Fiat and Soul Back to back at the L.A. auto show. I have driven the Spark and Fiat subsequently at dealers with my wife and daughter in the cars. As I mentioned, I have driven the Soul and looked at the leases, the Soul is not to my liking nor does it fit my budget, so it is not something I will consider, unless they both get 0-60 time below 9 sec. and offer it for the same lease rate as the Spark.

What I really would like to do is rent or borrow a Spark and a Fiat for a few days and see what they're like to live with. I looked into renting one, but they're only available out of SFO.

 

[xylhim]

The reason this scares me toward the Fiat is that the Fiat charges twice as fast on a Level 2 charger, so I suspect if I need to use a public charger, I'll spend less time there and if I have to wait for someone to finish when I arrive, will still be done sooner.

This is the main reason I would go with the Spark with DCFS option. Since there aren't many SAE combo cars on the market, once these chargers become more available, you won't have the problem of them being hogged. Also note that most every BMW dealer and many Kia dealers will have SAE combo chargers soon, especially in your neck of the woods. You're more future proof with the Spark when it comes to charging in metropolitan areas like LA. The Fiat might make more sense if you lived in an area with really poor DCFS infrastructure; this certainly is not the case for LA and So. Cal in general, we have the most SAE combo chargers in the country currently.

 

[SteveC5088]

Looking at your initial post as to expected driving needs, I just don't see the need to charge anywhere but at home. It would be an unusual day that you drove over the 80-90 mile range of the Spark EV. Even at the 3kw charge rate, you get 10 miles of charge per hour, so how often will you really need to go over 100 miles when you are just running around? On those days, you just trade for the guzzler.

I also bought the Spark EV because it was several K lower in price than the 500e. I think the Fiat is cuter (never looked inside, though), but the Spark EV suits me just fine. As for the 0-60 feature: I use it at every stop light where I am first in line ( OMG, those gas drivers are sooo slow!)

I have only once charged other than in my garage at home. And I did that only because I wanted to do a 90-mile trip. (I have a lead foot, so I only get 75-80 miles of range.)

When I bought mine, I expressly sought out a unit withOUT the fast charging feature, because it was $750 more, and I would never use it.

> I'd also like to know what things you like least about the car, or would change if you could. I'm not looking to bash the Spark at all, I just find that often if you ask people what things they dislike about something they like, you can get some good info.
Little things: Dome light shines in driver's eyes, so passengers can't have it on at night. Doggone horn is the cheapest sounding thing (I had a Miata before, and loved its cute high-pitched horn). When I floor the Spark EV below 20 mph, it is hard to control the steering -- need to really pay attention! I wish the back seat would remove and the seat back folded down really flat for when I need to haul stuff -- Volt does this. Annoying "pedestrian alert" rapid beeping when you pull the light/turn signal lever to flash the high beams.

Things I like: Spunk and speed. Using "L" to slow down. Cruise control is easy to use and convenient. Easy to park. Remote start. "Auto" climate control. Blue-tooth pairing with iPhone. Only visiting gas stations to wash windshield or add air to the tires. 10 seconds per day to plug-in and keep it charged.

 

[evcurious]

so how often will you really need to go over 100 miles when you are just running around? On those days, you just trade for the guzzler.

I also bought the Spark EV because it was several K lower in price than the 500e. I think the Fiat is cuter (never looked inside, though), but the Spark EV suits me just fine. As for the 0-60 feature: I use it at every stop light where I am first in line ( OMG, those gas drivers are sooo slow!)

I have only once charged other than in my garage at home. And I did that only because I wanted to do a 90-mile trip. (I have a lead foot, so I only get 75-80 miles of range.)

If I'm honest, I suspect I'll be mashing the accelerator a lot. If the power is available I probably won't resist for long, even if it uses the charge faster. I did notice the torque steer. It's kind of unavoidable in a FWD car.

I keep a headlamp in the glove box so I think the dome light issue is solved. The Ped alert sounds like a real annoyance.

I've been monitoring my mileage since I started considering an EV, about 95% of the time I will be able to charge at home and have sufficient time to re-charge on the 3.3 kW circuit. I think I'm being anxious for a 5% scenario. The whole decision process for an EV is one that my wife have been carefully considering. The idea is that we will trade off cars when it makes the most sense. Her "guzzler" is a Jetta diesel wagon, so range and load space are quite good for the times when it's needed. What I suspect will happen is, My wife will grab the Spark much of the time, since she is mostly making short trips and works from home, and I will be driving the Jetta The biggest issue will come on the once a year occasion that we both need to make separate trips that are over 60 miles.

xylhim, I agree, I would only get one with a DCFS because I believe there will be many more stations available before a 3 year lease is up and there might be occasions when I'd like to make use of one.

The really good thing is, my brother picked up a Black 2LT with DCFS last night, he got a really great deal on a lease, so I'll be able to spend a little quality time with his over the weekend. Who knows I may have one by Monday.

 

[fengshui]

The biggest issue will come on the once a year occasion that we both need to make separate trips that are over 60 miles.

Given the above, I think you'll be great with the Spark and the ICE. If it's really once a year, you can rent a car for that single day trip. With the savings over the Fiat, you could do that many times on the savings alone.

Like most of the other posters, I do all my charging at home. 50-60 miles is easy in a Spark. The times I've had to charge outside my usual overnight period is when I forget to plug in, and wake up in the morning with 45 miles of range. In those cases, I drive more gently, charge where I park, and add the additional 10 miles to get home for a full charge the following night.

Finally, with a family, I find the 4 doors critical. Not sure if you need them, but if you do, you do.

 

[SteveC5088]

Oh yeah, I forgot the Fiat is 2-door. I am always taking my 5th grader to school, and they carry huge backpacks these days. The back seat and the back doors sure make loading and unloading gear a lot easier.

 

[PPL]

I got interested in EV becos' of Fiat 500e but ended up with the Spark EV. The key reasons were 4-doors (well hidden), useable back seat (Fiat is really a 2 seater) and DC charging (for future). Fiat is actually quicker to 30mph but Spark is beats it to 60mph, even with 4 adults inside. Chevy firmware throttles low-end performance too much to limit torque steer.

If you plan to use public charging stations, you will pay more with the 3.3Kw charger since the rate is based on time (at least for ChargePoint in my office campus). I found the Level1 at home adequate for overnight charging for work commute but useless on weekends when you need a boost charge. Invest in a Level2 via Bosch offer.

However, my biggest compliant with Spark EV is how NOISY it is on the freeway. Pretty quiet in surface streets but the LF tires and poor insulation of Spark makes freeway driving tiring. Consider this if you do a 50 mile roundtrip commute per day. Maybe my noise tolerance has been spoiled by my normal ICE car, a Lexus LS (silent as a tomb). I enjoy the Spark EV as a guilt-free poor man's Porsche (the 911's are also noisy). We need plug-in EVs with real transmissions; a rear-drive Spark EV with gearing and that 400ft-lb motor would be a killer.

Here is a fair comparison between the two:
http://insideevs.com/plug-in-compact-comparison-chevrolet-spark-vs-fiat-500e/

 

[OneSpark]

I was in the same situation as you back in June, and had it down between the 500e and the Spark EV as well. The 500e only had a couple benefits that I could see over the Spark EV: 6.6 kWh charging (as you've noted) and the option for a sunroof (which I've had on all my cars for the past 15 years. I like the feeling of spaciousness that it gives).

Test driving both didn't make much of a difference in my opinion (they're both very peppy). The things that tipped me over the edge to the Spark EV was the far superior multimedia and bluetooth connection system (Chevy MyLink), having OnStar free for the term of the lease, and having four doors (helpful when I'm hauling around our dog). I also opted for the DCFC option, even though there isn't one currently near me or work. However, I've seen three stations come online in the interim months, and I expect quite a few more with BMW now supporting it, and NRG eVgo stations in the area being slowly upgraded to support the SAE Combo as well.

For what it's worth, I've been very happy with my Spark EV in the past 6 months. I didn't even bother with installing a Level 2 charger, and have been happy off the 120 trickle charge (my usual RT is only 20 miles, but does get longer on weekend trips).

By the way, I haven't found charging to be too much of an issue, although I'm over in Orange County rather than L.A. Still, I compete with plenty of Teslas around here, along with the standard PHEVs (and a couple Fisker Karmas, which is always a surprise to see). It's a rare occasion that I'm facing tough competition for charging stations, unless I'm at my university (Hello, Chaconzies!)

 

[evcurious]

Thanks for the additional info. My Sister in law is driving my brother's new spark 30 miles a day, she wasn't exactly on-board for an electric car and coming from a BMW 335 she's not entirely happy, but the spark is growing on her. She likes how quiet it is. My other brother is now considering a Spark as well.

I have to try to get the Spark for long enough to run it over to my local custom trailer hitch guy and see what it will cost me, if it's even feasible, to build and install a custom bolt on trailer hitch. I need it for a hitch mounted bike rack. I am an Avid mountain biker and need to be able to transport my bike on the weekends without disassembling it to try to wedge it into the Spark. The Fiat will accept the trailer hitch from the ICE 500. This is an important issue for me and one of the things that is pushing me toward the Fiat still.

I've been in the process of negotiation the best deal I can, I'm still on the fence. I've been working both Fiat and Chevy. I so far have found the Fiat dealers I've spoken to to be thieving bastards, I liked the treatment and deal my Brother got at Keyes Chevy in Van Nuys and will try to work something out with them if I get a Spark, which is looking more and more likely.

I have a question which is off the topic of my original post, does anyone know why Fiat offers 27 month leases? Is there some way that they get the $2500 CA rebate if the car is leased for less than 30 months?

Thanks for all the helpful comments. I appreciate it.

 

[SteveC5088]

My Sister in law is driving my brother's new spark 30 miles a day, she wasn't exactly on-board for an electric car and coming from a BMW 335 she's not entirely happy, but the spark is growing on her. She likes how quiet it is. My other brother is now considering a Spark as well.

A BMW 335 to Spark EV has to be a shock. I assume they had reasons not to buy a Volt??? The Volt would do her 30 miles a day all electric, and then they would have a car for long trips, too.

Yesterday, I drove our Volt up to Yosemite and back, something my Spark couldn't do. I love they way the Volt handles the mountain roads. The "L" mode is sweet on curves -- decelerate on the approach, accelerate on the way out, never touch the brakes even on the descent. Too bad I had kids in the car -- had to keep the speeds down so they didn't get car sick.

 

[gra]

My Sister in law is driving my brother's new spark 30 miles a day, she wasn't exactly on-board for an electric car and coming from a BMW 335 she's not entirely happy, but the spark is growing on her. She likes how quiet it is. My other brother is now considering a Spark as well.

A BMW 335 to Spark EV has to be a shock. I assume they had reasons not to buy a Volt??? The Volt would do her 30 miles a day all electric, and then they would have a car for long trips, too.

Yesterday, I drove our Volt up to Yosemite and back, something my Spark couldn't do. I love they way the Volt handles the mountain roads. The "L" mode is sweet on curves -- decelerate on the approach, accelerate on the way out, never touch the brakes even on the descent. Too bad I had kids in the car -- had to keep the speeds down so they didn't get car sick.

Well, you _could_ drive a Spark up to Yosemite from Fresno, but it's not a very practical use of the car currently; you'd have to stop for an L2 charge enroute, wasting several hours, and you'd probably have to do without heat. A (3.3 kW charger) LEAF owner in Fresno made the trip a few times a couple of years ago, on the first trip going out to Glacier Point: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=5148

and on the second making it up to Tuolumne Meadows: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=9965

At the time the only place to charge en route was in Oakhurst, but a motel in Fish Camp also has one now, although it's $25/charge if you're not staying there. A PHEV like the Volt in still the only really practical PEV to get there for now from Fresno barring a Tesla, although a RAV4 could fake it.

 

[Chaconzies]

It's a rare occasion that I'm facing tough competition for charging stations, unless I'm at my university (Hello, Chaconzies!)

Are you the other grey spark with the Ducks and electric sticker?

Our charging stations are like ALWAYS filled up at CSUF during normal school hours. I have talked to the guy in charge and he said they plan to have some more next year and maybe even an SAE combo by our 2 chademos! They were in the process of applying for the grant.

 

[OneSpark]

Are you the other grey spark with the Ducks and electric sticker?

That would be me. I always get a chuckle when I see your "Murrica" Spark in the lot.

I've also written Doug Kind about getting SAE Combo chargers on campus, and have heard about his attempt to get a grant to cover the cost. Let's hope that CSUF is able to make it happen in the not too distant future. But, I know that the Brea Mall eVgo chargers are supposed to updated to SAE Combo, so that wouldn't be terribly far away if I needed a DCFC boost.